Why PS4 need "Checkdisk" every dirty shutdown?

[Deleted member 11852]

I'm not familiar with UFS either (I'm an insufferable XFS fanboy), but I'm reading about and it has a very peculiar data integrity method called Soft Updates.

Z > X

I'm still of the opinion that UFS gave Sony a faster performance and less overhead, in exchange for longer crash recovery (but still a similar data integrity).

Yup. It's unlikely that a big factor in Sony's choice of filesystem would be the need to do it so often before the user is using the console in an environment where electricity supply is highly unreliable.

 

[MrFox]

Z > X

That make me think of an interesting point by BSD folks. I wouldn't understand why anyone would still use UFS on BSD (linux is another matter), but they said that while ZFS is robust today, UFS has 20 years of robustness. Sony might have taken this into account. UFS is relatively simple and barebone, but it will have no surprises. If they want to do a complete security audit of the code, less code is better. Any flaw that could be exploited by hackers would be a catastrophe.

 

[Cyan]

Inexpensive UPSes typically supply simulated (stepped, square, etc) sinewave output when running off battery rather than pure sinewave like the more expensive units typically do (I'm obviously generalizing here). Whether that has any negative impact of note to a device like a console or TV is a different question. Further, which is more detrimental to the health of those electronic devices (simulated sinewave or unexpected shutdowns and interment power) is also a separate question and one probably worth asking. Just something to consider.

I am interested in an UPS, 'cos my console is set to quick start mode and that helps to continue games from where exactly you left the last time --except when there is an update, then it restars everything and you can do nothing (lost a few items in Diablo 3 because of that) but that's something to consider.

Still, your post makes me think that UPSs might go from cheap to expensive if you are worried about the side effects a cheap UPS might have on your devices in the long run...

 

[orangpelupa]

how you set ps4 to do quickstart mode and resume game? this console is so slow in boot-time :/

 

[Cyan]

how you set ps4 to do quickstart mode and resume game? this console is so slow in boot-time :/

afaik, the PS4 does feature quick start mode, which is like sleep mode on PC. I don't have a PS4 for now, but that's how it works on the Xbox One, and heard that both consoles have a similar feature. But that's as far as I know on the matter.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

afaik, the PS4 does feature quick start mode, which is like sleep mode on PC. I don't have a PS4 for now, but that's how it works on the Xbox One, and heard that both consoles have a similar feature. But that's as far as I know on the matter.

Unless Sony snuck it in, it's still AWOL despite the fact they made a song and dance about it at the February 2013 reveal. 17 Months ago

 

[Cyan]

Unless Sony snuck it in, it's still AWOL despite the fact they made a song and dance about it at the February 2013 reveal. 17 Months ago

:smile2: I had to take a look and see what AWOL means, heh. Well... I thought otherwise. In the end it shouldn't be much of a deal to add that feature. Still MS have it easier -copy&paste from Windows 8, although it was a beta feature not so long ago-, so I believe that they will add it over time.

17 months is a lot of time.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Still MS have it easier -copy&paste from Windows 8, although it was a beta feature not so long ago-, so I believe that they will add it over time.

It's not really a copy 'n' paste feature; suspend and resume requires writing the low level drivers for all of the hardware then making the entire operating understand and respect a system that can stop and start at any time regardless of what it's doing.

 

[orangpelupa]

btw the standby on xbox1 is more power hungry
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7528/the-xbox-one-mini-review-hardware-analysis/5

maybe sony faced similar problem, they can make PS4 "instant on" but its too power hungry for their comfort. dunno...

 

[eastmen]

btw the standby on xbox1 is more power hungry
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7528/the-xbox-one-mini-review-hardware-analysis/5

maybe sony faced similar problem, they can make PS4 "instant on" but its too power hungry for their comfort. dunno...

that is an xbox one with a Kinect waiting for xbox on command.

 

[Scott_Arm]

that is an xbox one with a Kinect waiting for xbox on command.

Yah, if you disable the "Xbox On" command it should reduce a fair amount. Not sure if I've seen an actual number for it.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

That's a lot of power for just the mic array. Do we know what processor is onboard Kinect? I'm assuming it's essentially a semi-autonomius device during standby.

 

[Scott_Arm]

That's a lot of power for just the mic array. Do we know what processor is onboard Kinect? I'm assuming it's essentially a semi-autonomius device during standby.

It's got to be running more than the mic, because it's actually listening and has to register the voice command. So probably some chunk of the CPU and maybe the GPU are turned on, as well as a chunk of memory.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

It's got to be running more than the mic, because it's actually listening and has to register the voice command. So probably some chunk of the CPU and maybe the GPU are turned on, as well as a chunk of memory.

I was of the belief that the Kinect 2 had onboard processing and it was this that was listening for the 'Xbox On' command but you could be right, it could just be powering the mic array and doing the processing on the Xbox One itself.

 

[Rockster]

While it's not standby / quick start mode, the new firmware update does give you themes.

 

[Cyan]

that is an xbox one with a Kinect waiting for xbox on command.

That's good to know, now that I don't have Kinect plugged in anymore --lack of space in my room makes it useless for other than voice commands. I always had quick startup enabled though

 

[Scott_Arm]

That's good to know, now that I don't have Kinect plugged in anymore --lack of space in my room makes it useless for other than voice commands. I always had quick startup enabled though

Yah, you can keep quick startup on but turn the "Xbox On" listening off.

 

[brunogm]

Z > X


Yup. It's unlikely that a big factor in Sony's choice of filesystem would be the need to do it so often before the user is using the console in an environment where electricity supply is highly unreliable.

Maybe the issue with ZFS is the bigger amount of memory required. IIRC 1GB at least. Can you confirm?

 

[imaxx]

UFS has 20 years of robustness.

have no idea, but this is a good reason to choose it.

In the end it shouldn't be much of a deal to add that feature.

Do you know what an OS does when it neds to suspend? seems not.
The reason M$ mad available its "shiny" (fking) Vista Windows Driver Development Framework was because all driver developers fled from the suspend procedures, not implementing them (i.e. on an USB HID toy, or whatever): was an headache.

Even in Linux/FreeBSD OSes, it is not trivial, it requires a number of phases and ...likely makes you scream (oh, and you have to implement the feat for the video driver as well, what a fun..).

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Maybe the issue with ZFS is the bigger amount of memory required. IIRC 1GB at least. Can you confirm?

It very much depends on what your expecting ZFS to do. For example if you're concerned about data integrity (e.g. bit rot) and install it to your typical laptop, for average use (email, web, movies, music, gaming etc) then the filesystem isn't going to eat a gig of RAM constantly but may on a big write like a game install.

However if you're planning to use ZFS to manage lots of logical volumes in a high I/O load environment then you'll want memory. With the exception of some development and parity servers I don't think we have any individual servers in our cluster with less than 512Gb RAM and we allow a reserve a ZFS overhead of 16-32Gb per server although it's rarely that high - we're mostly compute-bound rather than disk I/O bound.

ZFS's appeal is high-performance end-to-end data integrity, from the moment data enter's the I/O command buffers to it being written to disk, so there is a lot of buffering throughout the different layers and it's these buffers that eat RAM. Data will stick in buffers until every write has been verified.

I hope that helps!