Why is it ...

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If XB360 developers are providing such info, then it should be being brought into the forum by those who follow that. Either the devs are not saying anything interesting, or what they are saying isn't being introduced to the forum. I'd love to read more on use of Xenos and what Xenon is managing, but I'm not going to scour the 'net for it! B3D is my Reader's Digest of all things console-technology, and I hope whenever there is a worthwhile tech piece on XB360, it'll appear here.

and yet as per my reasoning in the rest of my post... that info does not get posted here. (more sony fans looking for/posting the info)

it's out there and if it's not (compared to PS3 info) its because the Sony devs (see: Lair) give out the "only can be done on PS3... etc" interviews more often (PR).

I'd post more 360 tech but honestly I do not understand most of it. ;)
 
and yet as per my reasoning in the rest of my post... that info does not get posted here. (more sony fans looking for/posting the info)
But why not? Any XB 'fan' (or anyone else) finding this info is free to post it here, and surely if that info is out there, they'll be coming across it? Like dev blogs or interviews regards their favourite games. Sony devs are freely talking about Cell doing this and that.

it's out there and if it's not (compared to PS3 info) its because the Sony devs (see: Lair) give out the "only can be done on PS3... etc" interviews more often (PR).
That seems to me the reason. Sony's big push was their tech. A lot of the developers are happily talking about the tech. This gives us food for thought. We can say if we agree or disagree with these comments, and talk about what it could mean, etc. If devs don't give us something to work with - Xenos enables such-and-such; we're using the Xenon-Xenos direct bus to do this thing here; we can procedurally create this sky using cache locking and reads from Xenos - we can't really talk about it! Now either we're not getting those comments because devs aren't giving them, or people aren't passing them on. There's no reason for folk not to pass on such info if they encounter it, and in the early days there was a fair bit of XB360 tech discussion, so I get the impression devs just aren't being open. Either that or XB360 fans just don't care to pass on the tech-talk in a way PS fans do.
 
it's not about being objective, as I wrote in my first post it's about perception, and perception often has no connection with reality.

I gotcha now. I missed the context. The fact that we haven't seen anything technically interesting is why there hasn't been much technical talk. Whether that's because there really isn't anything or we just haven't seen it yet is actually irrelevant to your point.
 
i really don't know how the ps3 isn't technically superior to the x360. i'll admit that it is much harder to develop for according to what everyone says, but here's a breakdown, if anything's wrong with it, don't flame me, just politely correct me.
i'm not a fanboy now that sega's out of the picture.

graphics: 1. the ps3 has a modded geforce 7, so it can do up to 8XS. The x360
can only do 4x, plus it can't do trss.
2. ps3 has the ability for trilinear filtering; the x360 does only bilinear.
3. the x360 uses unfiltered R10G10B10A2 render targets, which means effects like hdr, aren't potentially as good on the x360, due to the playstation 3's filtered rgba x 16.
4. the x360 unified shader architechture is more efficient, but ultimately slower than the ps3's non-unified shader architecture. think about this:

geforce 8 series have to use 128 unified shaders clocked more than 2.5X higher than 48 in the x360 to be equivalent in shader power to a geforce 7 series (non-unified architechure) with 32 pixel shaders and 8 vertex shaders.

medium size and loading;

the x360 has a much smaller, much more limiting medium that may run on a faster optical drive, but is ultimately slower b/c it has no hd to fall back on to help load faster.

so, the playstation 3 can effectively load much more data much faster than the x360, so the optical drive speed differences really don't matter.

controller: the x360's wireless controller speed is less than the ps3's. the ps3's is 3mbps, the x360's is less. that means response times will be faster on the ps3.

reliabilty: the ps3 is very reliable, the 360's are cheap busted pieces of shit. look at the stats. it shows that sony listened to the ps2 and ps1 complaints, while microsoft doesn't let you have a reliable system yet they were perfectly capable of it, considering their 1st system. they take something away from you (reliability) from their 1st system to the next and then they charge you more for it.

the cpu: needs no explanation.
 
ballsweat,

your posts and responses got deleted for a reason......don't be shocked to see it happen again. And pick up a clue along the way this time around.
 
But why not? Any XB 'fan' (or anyone else) finding this info is free to post it here, and surely if that info is out there, they'll be coming across it? Like dev blogs or interviews regards their favourite games. Sony devs are freely talking about Cell doing this and that.
Just read Sony's blog, developers are directly asked "why your couldn't be done on any other hardware?" not even "is your game possible on any other hardware?". It's clear that Sony encourages developers to make this sort of statements combined with technical mumbo-jumbo. On the other head Microsoft's policy is to let the games speak for themselves. Some 360 games are doing really interesting things (for example Bioshock with its physics-based particle system), but developers are thankfully (not for this forum though) more focused on promoting game itself and not platform.
 
Just read Sony's blog, developers are directly asked "why your couldn't be done on any other hardware?" not even "is your game possible on any other hardware?". It's clear that Sony encourages developers to make this sort of statements combined with technical mumbo-jumbo. On the other head Microsoft's policy is to let the games speak for themselves. Some 360 games are doing really interesting things (for example Bioshock with its physics-based particle system), but developers are thankfully (not for this forum though) more focused on promoting game itself and not platform.

It seems so IMO, most if not all dev walkthrough videos i've seen from E3'07 of PS3 exclusive games the devs squeeze in either 'can only be done on PS3' or 'it could not be possible without BD'. :???:
 
That seems to me the reason. Sony's big push was their tech. A lot of the developers are happily talking about the tech. This gives us food for thought. We can say if we agree or disagree with these comments, and talk about what it could mean, etc. If devs don't give us something to work with - Xenos enables such-and-such; we're using the Xenon-Xenos direct bus to do this thing here; we can procedurally create this sky using cache locking and reads from Xenos - we can't really talk about it! Now either we're not getting those comments because devs aren't giving them, or people aren't passing them on. There's no reason for folk not to pass on such info if they encounter it, and in the early days there was a fair bit of XB360 tech discussion, so I get the impression devs just aren't being open. Either that or XB360 fans just don't care to pass on the tech-talk in a way PS fans do.

I just think Sony is bigger on hyping their stuff. Ask a Sony fanboy last gen about the PS2 and he will go on and on about how the Emotion Engineâ„¢ is great. Ask an Xbot and he might tell you about the hard drive or the GPU, but he won't have a name brand to use. Look at this gen; Sony has the Cell, EDGE and a bunch of other name brand tools while Microsoft just has the Xenos and Xenon (which are really code names and aren't hyped that much).

If you want to talk tech, there are a lot of things 360 games are doing. Roboblitz fit an 18 level physics based UE3 game into a 50 MB download with some interesting Procedural Generation technology, Forza 2 has probably the best racing AI I have seen in a game (and Shadowrun is pretty amazing on the AI side as well), Mass Effect is using a procedurally based lip synchronizer that allows them to simply play audio files of speech and hae all of the facial stuff happen automatically and DOA has got some *ahem* interesting physics... You just don't see developers emphasizing these things as much with the 360 as you do with the PS3 (Which seems to come from Sony devs for the most part, as I haven't heard much on the tech for Haze, MGS4 or FFXIII.
 
1.) Beyond3D has a number of technology fanboys. The most obvious example I can think of is Cell. A large number of people here seemed to simply buy the Playstation 3 simply because its the cheapest way to own a Cell processor. Personally, I think this is a big joke on these people but to each their own is all I can say. These people tend to have a deeper understanding than your average "gamer" (another interesting tid bit, I think the actual hardcore gamer crowd is not here at all for the most part) about the technology used. Combined with the Euro centric population and the more anticipated arrival of the PS3 I find it just happens to create a very Cell heavy zone. I don't consider these people bad posters at all, because in a lot of ways what they're concerned about is justified.

2.) Because of the Cell love here those who own and enjoy their Xbox 360s but dislike the PS3 as a gaming console tend to go into said Cell worship threads and havoc begins. Its a combination just waiting to explode, and in a few cases it has, luckily nothing to bad yet.

3.) To me its the combination of both that really makes this forum hard to stomach sometimes. Like I said before, I really don't consider this place a gamer zone. I think a lot of the people think they are gamers but once you hear why they purchased what they it tends to become laughable.

All in all, who cares. I don't see anything changing any time soon until people realize that they need to simply enjoy what they enjoy.
 
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1031163&postcount=106
"My opinion is that this race track (the ss above) with the weather effects including thunder is better than most if not all "BS" reeleased for this game so far.
The water effects on the car and the water puddles on the ground that react to the vechicle (dynamic fluid or simulation of it?) just adds to the game. Maybe some "BS" looked better since I haven't seen all ss of the game but doesn't change that I think this is the best looking car game so far."

Exactly what I meant.

Someone was questioning if the ingame play video was real which it was and the video link is there!
Let me ask again, did anyone troll after you declared it best looking racer?
If your answer is no, how do you explain the asymmetricity?

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1031933&postcount=546
"Here are some more screenshots with several cars and one car in large size. BS shots but atleast they show some mighty impressive detail and several cars!"

So what was it you where asking about, and dont forget to check the post timedate! ;)

I have no doubt you have the comprehension to find something good about GT5. ;)

Just read Sony's blog, developers are directly asked "why your couldn't be done on any other hardware?" not even "is your game possible on any other hardware?". It's clear that Sony encourages developers to make this sort of statements combined with technical mumbo-jumbo.
The question is "What did you do on this game that you couldn’t do on another platform?" which doesn't imply the game cannot be done anywhere else as the answer can be "nothing" as in case of R&C interview.

Anyway WTF man, it is the official PR blog. Your (you and others') responses to Sony bullshiting around look deeply emotional. Why do you care at all?
On the other head Microsoft's policy is to let the games speak for themselves. Some 360 games are doing really interesting things
Interestingly, just less than a week ago MS declared 360 as the most powerful console again.
(for example Bioshock with its physics-based particle system), but developers are thankfully (not for this forum though) more focused on promoting game itself and not platform.
In case you haven't notice Bioshock is also coming to PC.
 
Exactly what I meant.

But you see if anyone asks me why and points out flaws or things that would not make it so I would not close my eyes and ears but instead have a conversation about it. Quite different from just wanting to believe what one wants to believe even if it's not what it is and then showing aggresivity back! ;)

If you ask me if I think the same now then I have to say I doubt it since watching the GT5 ss but since the GT5 ss are replay promo shots I'll reserv my answer until ingame play is shown!

Let me ask again, did anyone troll after you declared it best looking racer?
If your answer is no, how do you explain the asymmetricity?

No I wouldn't call it trolling at all. Atleast not the responses to the images and video I posted. For the rest of the thread you have to check by yourself! :smile:

I have no doubt you have the comprehension to find something good about GT5. ;)

Of course I see things for what they are not what I wish they are and impressive stuff impresses me especially if it is not 'last-gen' (pre-baked, static, to low-res etc)! ;)
 
I don't know why others post in PS3 threads (Can't speak for them). But I post in PS3 threads because:

* I want to find out more about some games and the technologies/concepts behind them. Usually in these threads, I will find some posts that needed corrections or clarifications, and then they ended up with even more corrections and clarifications, so on and so forth.

* I am looking for ways to maximize my use of PS3. The unit is pretty open ended in and of itself (e.g., Linux, DLNA, Playstation Home with web site/page integration, PS Eye, SIXAXIS, Blu-ray, blah), so why not ?

* I found some intriguing articles that I want to share with others. These are typically Cell related.

The first type of threads usually drag on. It also repeats itself when new posters come in.
 
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... needs no explanation.

OMG. I'm going to throw my X360 in the ocean when I get home. It just doesn't feel capable anymore :( you have made me a sad panda.


The problem I have, is that if a game is hyped to be the greatest thing ever visually, I become extremely cynical. 360 games generally have less of this, so I'm more lenient on them. Killzone is a good example, hyped to hell, yet looks kinda bland when all is said and done. I'm Not saying 360 games aren't immune. I still can't stand forza's radioactive reflections, and gears horrible, horrible bloom and general noisy materials - but those games shine in other areas (gears in particular).
It's a new zealand affliction I guess.
 
I think there are just way more PS3 fans on this board. I've said negative things about both the 360/PS3 over the past few months, and have never had one negative 360 comment challenged to this day. My negative PS3 comments though, after California->Europe translation, seem to be coming across as "I just slapped your mom", and result in the inevitable.
 
I think there are just way more PS3 fans on this board. I've said negative things about both the 360/PS3 over the past few months, and have never had one negative 360 comment challenged to this day. My negative PS3 comments though, after California->Europe translation, seem to be coming across as "I just slapped your mom", and result in the inevitable.

If it's perceived as inaccurate, then you will see correction/clarification attempts. I thought nAo's, Fran's and SMM's feedback were helpful to you too ? It may have nothing to do with PS3 or 360 preferences.
 
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I think there are just way more PS3 fans on this board. I've said negative things about both the 360/PS3 over the past few months, and have never had one negative 360 comment challenged to this day. My negative PS3 comments though, after California->Europe translation, seem to be coming across as "I just slapped your mom", and result in the inevitable.

Because a lot of the 360 or crossplatform fans seem to understand the idea that no tech is perfect. However, all technicalities aside, they can still expect a great gaming experience from their 360 games.

On the PS3 only side, this superiority complex exists and seems to be brought up continously. The PS3 exclusive devs certainly don't help with "ONLY POSSIBLE ON THE PS3!!!!" crap. Seriously, make a good game, stfu and people will still buy it. Make it shit and no one cares if it's only doable on which ever platform they decide to cheerlead. Seeing David Jeeves (head of marketing!) making idiotic comments recently has me to believe that there might be some pressure from him team on exclusive and first party devs to make such claims and draw attention to the platform. The fans grab such comments and run with it. On top of that, start believing in them. Then, anytime this superiority is questioned, they come out guns blazing. Think of it like diehard sports fan defending their team.

If Sony and the aforementioned studios just delivered without all the hyped up BS, I'd have much more respect for them.
 
There has been a 'cult of sony' since the days of the first walkman. Conversely MS is and has always been one of the most hated corporations. I don't think you have to look any further than that for the underlying reasons behind bias.
 
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