Which is more important, a Standard Harddrive or Blu-Ray??

If given a choice, which would you rather have in your console?

  • Blu-Ray

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see where you're coming from. Japanese RPG's won't be too big for DVD9's (the actual game data), but if they want to fit hours of HD video on there BRD's are the only way unless you want 5-6 disc games.

Well I don't think they need 5-6 game discs . 5-6 dvds would be a good 8 hours of cgi or more at 720p

I could see them using 1 or 2 discs for cgi .


but what if a dev wants to make a GTA-like title that's 2-3 times the size of GTA:SA (that would be mucho expensive to make to be sure)?
It should be just fine . You don't take into account the reuse of textures . Textures are used many many times over and over again and they will be compressed using the native compresions of xbox 360 . They will have the dxtc formats , they will have 3Dc and I believe ms siad something like 30 diffrent compresions in it . These textures will be compressed onto the disc and since its a fixed platform you only need that compressed texture . Unlike a game like eq2 (which i believe is around 4-5 gigs on a hardrive ) where you have diffrent target reses and diffren't video cards . Thus you repeat many textures .


In all honesty its hard to make a case where bluray is more important than hdd . Now if you rather watch movies than games bluray will be better , but I don't think thats truely the case for gamers
 
I just know I'll get more use out of Blu Ray than I'd get from the 1 or 2 games that require a hard drive that will probably be on the PC anyway.

Plus, 20gb HD isn't all that big when your talking Hi-def content.
What that, one Blu Ray disk?
 
Nicked said:
PARANOiA said:
Nicked said:
Why create a thread and then troll in it.
What if GTA came out with 30GBs of data. X360 screwed!!11
Its so easy to twist things.

The GTA's this gen were actually less than 2gb, I believe.
Close to 4GB on my Xbox HDD. I think JE is the biggest which clocks in at 6.2GB or something.
But we are looking at least 4 * more space needed for textures (realistically much, much more), games will have higher sampled audio, bigger worlds, high definition video....

I think you're mistaken. A quick google (search for GTA XBOX SIZE) says:

XBOX-GTA San Andreas PAL MULTI5 WORKING FULLDVD. Size, 2229249975 bites - roughly 2gb (rar'ed I assume, granted, but there you go)

Texture size will likely increase, but 4x? I'd be very surprised. I would expect texture compression routines on the Xenos to be far better than the NV2A.

Higher sampled audio... why do you think that? We'll still be playing in Dolby Digital (I hope!), which effectively has a cap on the sample rate. I don't think you're talking higher sample rates as a decision to not launch with a HDD are you?

And while HD Video is being argued above, so I'll stay right out of it, but will note that less and less (hopefully none, IMO) next gen cinematics will be FMV, but will use in-game graphics of much smaller file sizes.
 
If GTA was 2gigs, theoretically, if you doubled the textures it should come to ~8gigs. This game would "barely" fit on a DVD9 disc.
Your not factoring compresion though on textures . 512 megs of normal maps with 3dc would be only 256 megs . Ms has said something like 30 diffrent compresions on the xbox 360 .

A game like gta on the ps2 didn't have compresions like dxtc (unless i'm mistaken but i'm sure it didn't , i believe it had a jpeg format that turned out to be useless )

And if Rockstar they wanted to make a game that was twice as big as their previous, we would be talking 16gb - out of range on DVD9. This is not even accounting for other resources like geometry data would also be higher in the next gen and would also need higher storage requirments.
If you don't take into account compresion and procedualy generating textures and buildings

For current gen PC games, UT2004 comes close to 6gigs when installed on your HD. I don't think its unreasonable for EPIC's next game to fill a DVD9 disc.
Are you sure that ut2004 is 6 gigs ? I don't remember it being that big . Not when games like eq2 are the same size or smaller

Imagine a FF type game, I can see square easily filling a 25 singlelayer BR disc with video and game resoures.

With video , not game content . Everquest 2 is bigger than any ff game and doesn't use anywhere near that amount of space. It uses less than 6 gigs and every npc is fully voice scripted
 
In all honesty its hard to make a case where bluray is more important than hdd . Now if you rather watch movies than games bluray will be better , but I don't think thats truely the case for gamers

I guess its a bit of a trade-off, just going off acerts post I see myself siding with HDD right there. It just needs to be well utilized by devs and MS themselves, but considering the advances of XBL it should be put to good use unlike this gen.
 
seismologist said:
I just know I'll get more use out of Blu Ray than I'd get from the 1 or 2 games that require a hard drive that will probably be on the PC anyway.

Plus, 20gb HD isn't all that big when your talking Hi-def content.
What that, one Blu Ray disk?

In terms of gaming ? I think your talkin gabout watching movies , which has nothing really to do with gaming . As for a 20gb hdd that is the base drive. Which is standard . If you need more room you can buy it . HOwever unlike a console that doesn't come with a hddr content will be made from day one with it in mind .

Using counter strike source as a guid 20 gigs will give me about 2000 new maps right off the bat .
 
Korrupt said:
In all honesty its hard to make a case where bluray is more important than hdd . Now if you rather watch movies than games bluray will be better , but I don't think thats truely the case for gamers

I guess its a bit of a trade-off, just going off acerts post I see myself siding with HDD right there. It just needs to be well utilized by devs and MS themselves, but considering the advances of XBL it should be put to good use unlike this gen.

aye a hdd with no content is uselless . But if u look at the tail end of the xbox recently you see more and more content on the hardrive . I think next gen this will just increase which is natural .
 
jvd said:
Korrupt said:
In all honesty its hard to make a case where bluray is more important than hdd . Now if you rather watch movies than games bluray will be better , but I don't think thats truely the case for gamers

I guess its a bit of a trade-off, just going off acerts post I see myself siding with HDD right there. It just needs to be well utilized by devs and MS themselves, but considering the advances of XBL it should be put to good use unlike this gen.

aye a hdd with no content is uselless . But if u look at the tail end of the xbox recently you see more and more content on the hardrive . I think next gen this will just increase which is natural .

Yeah the HDD has become more useful in XB1 over time. Already with what MS has planned for XBL on X360 the HDD should get a workout, I've heard from BlimBlim (IIRC) that downloadable demo's are already being readied for launch :D
 
Yeah the HDD has become more useful in XB1 over time. Already with what MS has planned for XBL on X360 the HDD should get a workout, I've heard from BlimBlim (IIRC) that downloadable demo's are already being readied for launch

RIght .

This is why i think in na and europe sony is going to have a tough time . Ms already has an online service that has its bugs ironed out and is working smoothly and alot of work over the last 4 years has gone into it . There will be many things like new content , events , demos and prob even promotional video viewing of upcoming games through live plus other thigns I can't imaging yet . Not only this but ms has already gotten the devs used to using live .

A hdd brings many thigns to the table . I really wish both the ps3 and the x360 had one standard as I think alot of sony fans are going to miss out on interesting twists on old ideas and new ideas .
 
Acert93 said:
Reasons for HDD.

• Game Demos & trailers
• Game updates (new levels, maps, vehicles, etc... see: Halo 2)
• "Microtransactions" so gamers can obtain new content and mods
• Free Game Saves (saves me $30 on a stupid memory card)
• Never run out of game save space
• HDD Caching/Streaming
• Great for perpetual worlds and games that need a lot of storage
• Custom soundtracks
• HDD broadens the online gaming experience
• The more major systems have HDDs, the more developers will be happy to utilize them (one of the key issues with the Xbox was that a very small percentage of total consoles had HDD... chicken-and-egg scenario; utilization and ingenuity improves when it becomes a market standard)


yep 8)
 
With video , not game content . Everquest 2 is bigger than any ff game and doesn't use anywhere near that amount of space. It uses less than 6 gigs and every npc is fully voice scripted

Can't compare PC game sizes to console games. Just can't
 
this is any easy question, HDD no doubt as there is no winner or definite answer for the next dvd format as of yet, heck the war hasn't even started
 
mckmas8808 said:
With video , not game content . Everquest 2 is bigger than any ff game and doesn't use anywhere near that amount of space. It uses less than 6 gigs and every npc is fully voice scripted

Can't compare PC game sizes to console games. Just can't
and you can't pull numbers out of no where based on ps2 games .

If anything i would expect next gen console games to be smaller than next gen pc games as the consoles will have know that every unit has x compresion and will use it to its fullest
 
dukmahsik said:
this is any easy question, HDD no doubt as there is no winner or definite answer for the next dvd format as of yet, heck the war hasn't even started

I'm pretty sure PS3 is going to help end that 'war' pretty quickly. HD-DVD is in for a tough time methinks.
 
Oh and to the people saying that HDD doesn't matter for the average casual gamer, you're wrong. They freakin' LOVE it as a big mem card, it might not be a deal breaker but its a big convenience that many people love.
 
Just a minor correction.

GTA3 (vanilla) DVD for PS2 is 4.32GB. Vice city DVD for the PS2 is 4.34GB (just checked it) -- San Andreas is probably more (don't have it so I can't check), at very least the same.
 
jvd said:
HOwever unlike a console that doesn't come with a hddr content will be made from day one with it in mind .

I still dont buy that argument. That's like saying games wont include a save feature if the console doesn't come with a memory card.

I'm not sure what type of content would be made if there was a standard HDD other than downloadable content from Xbox Live. Which has more to do with Xbox Live itself than the HDD being standard.

Using counter strike source as a guid 20 gigs will give me about 2000 new maps right off the bat .

yeah That's an awful lot of microtransactions At $4.99 per map yer looking at about 10 grand worth of extra levels. :)
 
seismologist said:
jvd said:
HOwever unlike a console that doesn't come with a hddr content will be made from day one with it in mind .

I still dont buy that argument. That's like saying games wont include a save feature if the console doesn't come with a memory card.

I'm not sure what type of content would be made if there was a standard HDD other than downloadable content from Xbox Live. Which has more to do with Xbox Live itself than the HDD being standard.

Using counter strike source as a guid 20 gigs will give me about 2000 new maps right off the bat .

yeah That's an awful lot of microtransactions At $4.99 per map yer looking at about 10 grand worth of extra levels. :)

Not every dlc is going to be charged, I'm sure stuff like demo's will be free.
 
Bobbler said:
Just a minor correction.

GTA3 (vanilla) DVD for PS2 is 4.32GB. Vice city DVD for the PS2 is 4.34GB (just checked it) -- San Andreas is probably more (don't have it so I can't check), at very least the same.
Bobbler,

Did you take into account the repeated textures/files on the disc, or are you saying "gross file size of the disc"? They're very different.
 
I still dont buy that argument. That's like saying games wont include a save feature if the console doesn't come with a memory card.

Well how about some proof

Ps2 hardrive
Sega cd
Sega 32x
Neo geo cd
Jaguar cd


Just off the top of my head . Add ons simply don't sell and a developer wont bother supporting an item that a small fraction of the userbase has .

I'm not sure what type of content would be made if there was a standard HDD other than downloadable content from Xbox Live. Which has more to do with Xbox Live itself than the HDD being standard.

There are games that can't be done any other way like a mmorpg . Or any mmo game

yeah That's an awful lot of microtransactions At $4.99 per map yer looking at about 10 grand worth of extra levels.

Sure and u pulled that 4.99 out of where ?

You would most likely see bundles of maps together for certian prices . Then you can also make your own maps and sell them on xbox live . So i may be able to get 2000 player maps for less than a 1$ .

Not to mention free content from the devs and demos and other promotional things they can do
 
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