I'm wondering if the new brick is smaller too.
Hmm. If they have that scheduled for Q4...
Hmm. If they have that scheduled for Q4...
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When are the 65nm PS3's and XB360's shipping?
- Thread starter zealotonous
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Not usually on a single process drop. PS2 went through 3 or 4 process shrinks before becoming slimline. The interim was a cooler, quieter PS2.
Smaller chips produce less heat, so need less cooling. But if you shrink the case too much, you limit cooling options and heat becomes an issue. Keeping the larger case allows you the larger fans that you can spin more quietly. We may see a quieter model. Then again MS may want to keep the fans going to maintain better reliability.
HDMI v1.3 won't be necessary since the 360 already decodes DD+ and TrueHD to LPCM.
I'm not sure if that's an accurate way of putting it, here is what Amir from MS says.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/printthread.php?t=726038&page=19&pp=30
I should probably clarify my statement. What Amir posted was in regard to the current HDMI out on the Elite. It has the same 2 channel limitation of the optical output due to the design. I am hoping that the 360 falcon redesign allows the HDMI to output full 5.1 or 7.1 LPCM instead of encoding it to lossy Dolby Digital or DTS.
Someone on NeoGAF posted their new premium 360 with HDMI and noted the receipt or some other document listed "Zephyr" as a part of the SKU name which was the codename for the Elite. The new premiums we're seeing may have the same limitations that the Elites have meaning no redesign was done for HDMI.
Someone on NeoGAF posted their new premium 360 with HDMI and noted the receipt or some other document listed "Zephyr" as a part of the SKU name which was the codename for the Elite. The new premiums we're seeing may have the same limitations that the Elites have meaning no redesign was done for HDMI.
This is really getting confusing ( to me at least). There was a quote from MS that the 65nm chips have been in production for the last 2 quarters. If this is true, then i cant imagine we're seeing 90nm, HDMI premiums because otherwise, what are they doing with all these 65nm chips?
I am going to guess that the new 65nm boards, whenever they arrive, will not have any additional HDMI audio capability (though i hold out hope). My thought process is that we wouldnt have seen an Elite unless the design is essentially allowed a 'drop-in' between 65nm and 90nm chips. I cant see the justification of the Elite board design any other way.
Agreed on the fact that they are both a possibility, but an interim 90nm HDMI premium seems like an overload of that SKU for such a short period of time.
You're assuming they're at full capacity 65nm. I don't doubt they've been hording them some to make the transition at once ( as much as possible) and stock up for Christmas sales.
I can't see what purpose it would serve to make the chip not pin compatible.
I dont see the point of fabbing chips and having them sit around in a warehouse until christmas and not be using them in SOME SKU. Since these chips are cost-reducing, theyd want to use them to build as many 360s as soon as possible wouldnt they?
Who said they wouldnt be? Re-read my comment as it was in the context of a change of the HDMI audio harware capability.
There's not all the much point in building ones you're not shipping. Traditionally Christmas sales are higher than production capacity for console manufacturers so they have to prepare.
I'll be sure not to agree with you in the future if it angers you so.
Sure but 2 quarters worth of 65nm chips equates to at least 4 months worth of production. I understand what youre saying but i cant see a scenario where theyd be producing these 65nm chips since March, only to hold them back for holiday delivery some 8-9 months later, just seems like too wide a gap.
Glad to see you learned your lesson then.
In all seriousness, i did mistake your comment, and i wasnt angered. Apologies regardless.
Well how many did they produce in those 2 quarters? I rather doubt they immediately ramped up to full 65nm capacity. Just because they were turning a few out doesn't mean they weren't still fine tuning.
Glad to see you learned your lesson then.
In all seriousness, i did mistake your comment, and i wasnt angered. Apologies regardless.
Yes, but so has Sony. Yet on their conference call their CFO indicated that it would probably be a couple of months before PS3's start shipping with 65nm Cells; they simply have a lot of 90nm chips still left to work through.
Now - due to the nature of the respective businesses, it may be that MS never stocked up on 90nm chips as Sony did; afterall Sony had aggressive initial shipment estimates, and on top of that they have a fabrication interest with IBM that may have involved a guarantee of purchase of a certain 90nm run.
So... the production costs for MS still come down either way; chips produced are now 65nm vs 90nm. But in terms of when the consumer sees such chips depends on their stockpiling, because obviously MS isn't just going to toss perfectly good chips away.
Well, depends on how short a time it is... but in terms of manufacturing it'd be no different than the Elite presently is, simply with white casing and a different drive slapped on. The packaging can remain the same as they transition to 65nm Falcon boards, as really it's just the provision for accounting for the HDMI that's the hurdle at retail. This actually would offer up the perfect compromise between what was being discussed yesterday in terms of clearing the channel and introducing the Falcon - 90nm components are still used, but the SKU shift is immediate, and the stealth transition is thus allowed later on.
Of course, these could very well be 65nm right now - there's a good chance. Which is why I'm hoping we see the innards sooner rather than later.
Joe DeFuria
Legend
That's what I make of the situation. In sum:
1) Current Permium HDMI consoles have the "elite" motherboard and internals...which is designed (from a heat and power point of view) to handle 90 nm chips, but will of course accept 65nm chips.
2) Sometime in the not too distant future, when the 90nm chip stock is run through, the transition to Falcon boards (65nm only) will commence. These will be functionally no different than the Premium HDMI / Elite boards, but designed specificially with lower power (and lower cost) in mind.
The main questions seem to be:
a) what happens to the Core SKU once the transition to Falcon is underway. I have to assume it would use the same falcon MB...but whether or not HDMI is included would be the open question. (All three xbox SKUs will then be using the falcon motherboard.)
b) once the full transition to Falcon is complete...will it be accompanied by another round of price cuts.
Hmmm, seems what we really need is to have one of these things opened up to see if it is indeed on the new Falcon board, or whether these are legacy Elite boards used during a crossover period. Either one is a possibility.
Joe D, greetings from right down the road in bridgewater!
Joe D, greetings from right down the road in bridgewater!
thatdude90210
Regular
There were some suggestions that maybe MS will have a new core pack, but with the HDMI hardware either not soldered in to the MB or at least covered by plastic on the box.
My opinion is that MS shouldn't do either of that. They should treat the core as a "starter kit." It shouldn't have any distinguishing features, like the white dvd door cover of the old core, so that if someone wants to add all the parts necessary, they can eventually turn it into a regular 360.
That'll encourage people who may not have the money yet for the 360 premium to buy whatever they can afford. And not be saddled with the negative of having some kind of "tard pack." And they can upgrade as they save up more money.
MS just need to make the core worthwhile, like with at least a memory pack & a wireless controller. What the hell is MS still doing with a wired controller anyway. I always thought they were following the PS2 formula, but they didn't have to copy it exactly, down to an old wired controller.
My opinion is that MS shouldn't do either of that. They should treat the core as a "starter kit." It shouldn't have any distinguishing features, like the white dvd door cover of the old core, so that if someone wants to add all the parts necessary, they can eventually turn it into a regular 360.
That'll encourage people who may not have the money yet for the 360 premium to buy whatever they can afford. And not be saddled with the negative of having some kind of "tard pack." And they can upgrade as they save up more money.
MS just need to make the core worthwhile, like with at least a memory pack & a wireless controller. What the hell is MS still doing with a wired controller anyway. I always thought they were following the PS2 formula, but they didn't have to copy it exactly, down to an old wired controller.
I agree completely. I don't understand why Microsoft went that route. I can only guess they initially thought the Premium needed more distinguishing features (which is the farthest from the truth).
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Apparently the power brick didn't change in spec:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7354721&postcount=205
The new one has the same power output.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7354721&postcount=205
The new one has the same power output.
Smaller components do not necessitate a power supply change. The power supply will be designed to a maximum power draw, you just may never need to use that peak power that is available (its like dropping in a 65nm CPU from a 90nm CPU in your PC, you don't need to change PSU's to a smaller one).
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