What they don't show us here in the US

[Sxotty]

I think he just wanted to say that the US media is as full of deceit and lies as other media around the world, but unfortuantely it isn't oh well.

I have seen plenty of what you described, and I saw stuff about the food and water shortage quite early on PBS, which is government owned basically so our government is discusing Iraqi civillian casulties, and the water/humanitaria crisis. The Brits are about to get alot worse casulties going in to Basara simply to help out the humanitarian problem, and all people do is complain that we caused it, well there is quite a bit of evidence showing that Saddam's forces shut off the water to basara, not the coalition (and even if we do this sort of thing which most suggest we should, it is accidental)

Unfortunately just showing dead bodies doesn't mean very much or change anything unless you can establish who, how, why. And the same goes for casulties.

1718: Popular uprising reported in Basra. British troops said to be firing into the city where Iraqi soldiers were shooting at civilian protesters.

thats from the bbc, so when you see Iraqi civilians dead remeber who killed them is important

 

[Mize]

deleted

Yes, pictures like that are exactly what I'm talking about - I've not seen them on CNN or FOX at all. Where did you get those? I read cnn's front page several times a day and never found those there.

I hope I have informed you abit.
later,

That you have.

Mize

 

[Heathen]

Talking of reporting, seems the inhabitants of Basra have had enough of Saddam and are launching a popular uprising against any pro-saddam forces in the city. British forces are currently providing fire support and are preapring to move into the city.

 

[Mize]

Talking of reporting, seems the inhabitants of Basra have had enough of Saddam and are launching a popular uprising against any pro-saddam forces in the city. British forces are currently providing fire support and are preapring to move into the city.

I really hope this is true. We need some positive news.

Mize

 

[Heathen]

Well I'm watching live on TV, I almost feel sorry for the Pro saddam force the inhabitants of Basra are REALLY REALLY pissed.

 

[Mariner]

I think this is what they were expecting to happen - most of the inhabitants of Basra are Shiite muslims, I believe, and Saddam's regime (who are Sunni muslims) have treated them badly for years.

I expect this is why they publically announced that they were going to take Basra - mainly to spur on an uprising in the city.

 

[RussSchultz]

I really really really really hope this is true, and not more psy-ops from the Pentagon.

(And yes, I think the Pentagon has been using the US media as tools for psy-ops)

 

[Mize]

I just heard one report that said the rioting civilians have attacked both Iraqi and British forces. The report said that one Brit was killed. No idea if it's true of course...but it does lessen the likelihood of it being psyops.

Mize

 

[RussSchultz]

Foxnews of course represents it as a popular uprising. no big suprise there. What I did get a kick out of was some of the text.


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,82088,00.html

"I think that they feel a threat to their security by these Baath party, special Republican Guard troops, that they're terrorizining their neighborhood," he said.

He's been taking speech lessons from Bush.

 

[Vince]

I really hope this is true. We need some positive news.

Wait, being outside of Baghdad after 4 days with less casulties than in '91 isn't positive? The 4th ID is 50miles outside of Baghdad, haing killed over 400 Iraqi's in the last 2 days alone and still, AFAIK, not suffered a single loss. How is that not positive?

You see, this is what happens when people who aren't in the military watch real-time tactical combat and have nothing to base it on.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Foxnews of course represents it as a popular uprising. no big suprise there. What I did get a kick out of was some of the text.

Honestly, people like to read a bias where I'm not sure it exists. The headline on the front page that links to that story on FoxNews labels it as a rumor:

Basra Said to Be in Rebellion
Rumors of Shiite anti-government uprising in Iraq's second city

They don't represent it as a popular uprising, they say there are REPORTS that it is a popular uprising.

Granted, this is the kind of thing that leads to people beliving it is a "fact" that there is a popular uprising. But I think that's more a fault of people not actually reading what's in print.

A second story on FoxNews:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,82098,00.html

"We've had reports we can't substantiate as of yet of an uprising in Basra. We are closely monitoring the situation," said U.S. Marine Maj. David C. Andersen.

In other words, the "facts" are there...but how one interprets them is another question altogether.

He's been taking speech lessons from Bush.

Lol!

 

[RussSchultz]

Vince, beyond just militarily, there just hasn't been much political good news.

A popular uprising against Saddam's regime in Basra would be the first bit of good political news.

 

[Vince]

Vince, beyond just militarily, there just hasn't been much political good news.

(a) This is a military campaign, politics is a distant second. When politics gets involved, the ghost of Vietnam ensues.
(b) Like what? The internal politics of the situation (populace) are in America's favor. It's not like these people just woke-up this morning and decided to hate Saddam and revolt - it's only a matter of time. The only political problems are in foreign ME countries and shouldn't domninate our policies.

 

[Mize]

(b) Like what?

Not speaking for Russ, but a huge bit of politically good news would be an Iraqi population that *wants* this war (and the ouster of Saddam) and sides with the US. A popular uprising would be this type of good news.

Mize

 

[Vince]

I edited the message because I knew someone would say this, was just too slow.

The basic idea is simple. The Iraqi people revolting today, didn't just decide to hate Saddam and put their lives on the line to oust the Regime today. These feelings are there, but repressed.

As stated by many Iraqi exiles,when the populace knows they can sucessfully revolt and will have coalition support - they will.

Believe it or not, but the world isn't all you see or hear on CNN. Just because some media reporter thats embedded only sees one small viewpoint of the entire geo-political plane in that area and reports based on that... doesn't mean thats all that exists.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Not speaking for Russ, but a huge bit of politically good news would be an Iraqi population that *wants* this war (and the ouster of Saddam) and sides with the US. A popular uprising would be this type of good news.

I'll straddle the fence here.

It's good news is, IMO, to the extent that it signals (at least in the Shiite territory) less bloodshed in the "peace-keeping" phase of the operation. I don't care about the politics of it (whether the coalition is viewed by others as liberators or occupiers), but I do care that less people on both sides will be killed if once Sadam is out, the populace is grateful.

 

[Heathen]

Rebellion is Basra
1) It's Real or as real as British troops on the ground can see.
2) The brit was killed earlier in the day in an unrelated issue.
3) What seems to have been the fuse is an attempted breakout by a bunch of Iraqi Armour. The Royal Scots dragoon Guards (A UK unit btw ) took them out. Additionally the Pro-Saddam forces in the city have also been brutalizing the inhabitants. Earlier this morning a British spec-ops unit went into Basra and snatched the head of the Baath party in the city and killed all of his lackeys.
4) The UK troops on the outskirts are intending to move into the city in the morning. However if the Pro-Saddam forces get too brutal we may go in earlier.

PS: It's the 3rd ID.

 

[RussSchultz]

Like what? The internal politics of the situation (populace) are in America's favor. It's not like these people just woke-up this morning and decided to hate Saddam and revolt - it's only a matter of time.

That certainly is what I'd like to believe also.

My fear is that we miscalculated how much local popular support there would be, and consequently whether we'd be seen as liberators or new oppressors. In one case we'd be welcomed and helped, in the other we'd be stymied--just like in Vietnam.

This uprising could finally be some proof that the assertations that "the Iraqi people will love us for this" will bear fruit.

 

[Heathen]

The Shi'ites may not 'love us' but one thing is for certain, they hate Saddam. 10,000 slaughtered in the popular uprising after the gulf war.

 

[Sxotty]

The Iraqi people are pretty pissed at us, those 10000 killed were our fault, we told them we would support an uprising, then when we signed the cease fire we were a little stupid (We had a Norman do it not a politician) and allowed Iraq to fly armed helicopters which they promptly employed to slaughter the rebels. So they are rightly a little grumpy at us, perhaps we should learn from that, and not encourage revolt in the future unless we truly will back it up.