What, no thread about the official Wii U release date and prices?

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Does anyone actually have any statistics on how many people really use in game, or system wide voice chat? Without that we really can't claim either way whether it's a "must have" feature or not. Personally my gut suggests that it's a minority of people that really want a universal chat system. Most games that need it (CoD BLOPS etc) will have it.

In the end, it's about priorities and I imagine Nintendo really doesn't think (And I think they are right) that's it's a big one.

I also take issue with people saying it's "behind" PSN and XBL. It's different that's all we can say. Neither PSN or XBL has a social networking system like Mii Verse.
 
Depends what "wipe the floor" means.

So nowhere near as much of a difference as last gen on a purley numbers basis - but still a notable gap between the two.

Will 720 wipe the floor with WiiU in the real world? Well, not in the same way 360 could vs Wii thats for sure. Not only do diminishing returns come into play, but there simply isn't as much of a difference between the two as there was last gen. Sure 720 will comfortably outpace WiiU (and probably PS4) in every area processing wise, but I'm not so sure we'll see a 'generational' difference as with last gen, even in the best case scenario when a 1st party dev really pushes it to its limits (and judging by how some big developers have faired this gen, and how big budget games have killed studios - that won't be too common.)

Imo even the "next gen" demos we've seen (1313 etc, the UE4 tech demo) weren't that much more visually impressive next to current gen offerings such as Uncharted 3 or Halo 4, and they were running on insane rigs which would never be affordable for MS/Sony to package into a console within the next year.

So yeah, WiiU will clearly be bottom of the pile spec wise and benchmark wise. But will the other two be leagues ahead in terms of what we actually play on them? I really don't think so.

Well, 'wipe the floor' is a hyberbolic expression, in this scenario it could mean 'unable to compete, not in the same league etc'.

And you suggested it; in my original post I put it more subtly:
have no idea how MDX and others think that an 8 core x86 CPU, with 8GB RAM and at least a 2TF Sea Islands based GPU is going to be only 'slightly better' than a 0.5 TF HD6670 (or similar), with 2GB of RAM and a three overclocked Broadway cores.

There's will definitely be a significant visual difference between games produced for the two.

Sure, it won't be as big a gap as last gen to this gen, but (from the BF4 leak) it'll at least be the difference between Battlefield 3 running at 1080p,60fps on Ultra with 64 players and the current versions of BF3 on consoles, running at 720p, 30 fps, with the PC equivalent of low settings.

That being said, I think it's fair to say that there will be a 'generational difference' between the Wii U and the 720 though of course it's never going to be as big as the difference between Wii and 360 (we are after all going from programmable shaders to more programmable shaders, rather than fixed function hardware to programmable shaders).

I don't see next gen engines like Star Wars 1313, Agni's Philosophy or the UE4 tech demo running on Wii U. So than in itself indicates a generational difference.

The Wii U is also much, much closer in power to the 360 and the PS3 than their successors, it's not even a halfway house between the two gens.
The Wii U's relationship to the PS3/360 is like the Gamecube (or Xbox) to the PS2 all will be seen as belonging to the same generation (powerwise) and no one's going to group it with the PS4 and 720.

Let's also not forget (as everyone seems to) that it's not just about the size of the graphical disparity between Wii U and the next gen machines.
It's also about CPU power and the Wii U is apparently weaker than the 360 and PS3 in that area so it's hardly going to be able to drive the AI, animation, physics and other complex interactions and simulations that games will be able to do on the 720 and PS4.

So in that sense it's certainly true that the Wii U will be unable to compete (powerwise) and will be outclassed by the 720/PS4 as it simply will not be able to provide the experiences they are capable of providing.
 
Does anyone actually have any statistics on how many people really use in game, or system wide voice chat?

I'd argue a significantly high percentage of the 40 Million Plus XBox Live Gold subscribers.

It's one of those features that you might not see the value in it until you experience it and then try to live without it. It provides for a very consistent user experience across every single game on your platform. Anything short of Cross-Game-Chat is an ugly user experience.
 
Really a good online experience isn't about features, it's about the whole experience, I wonder if Nintendo gets that or not, MS got it way back circa the original Xbox, they failed to deliver on a lot of the original vision with XBox, in large part because they relied on 3rd party devs to implement many of the features in their games, for 360 almost all the functionality was moved to the shell, so it's a much better experience.
The reason IMO Sony's efforts have lagged behind is because they treated features as checkbox items, and didn't really ever design the whole thing. I think they are beyond that now, it'll be interesting to compare all the next gen online experiences when the respective consoles ship.
 
Really a good online experience isn't about features, it's about the whole experience, I wonder if Nintendo gets that or not, MS got it way back circa the original Xbox, they failed to deliver on a lot of the original vision with XBox, in large part because they relied on 3rd party devs to implement many of the features in their games, for 360 almost all the functionality was moved to the shell, so it's a much better experience.
The reason IMO Sony's efforts have lagged behind is because they treated features as checkbox items, and didn't really ever design the whole thing. I think they are beyond that now, it'll be interesting to compare all the next gen online experiences when the respective consoles ship.

been beat to death, but i generally see it as a fundamental difference between an american, online is in their DNA, company, and two japanese companies where online is just not in their blood to the same degree. they try to embrace it but it always feels a bit like a square peg in a round hole.
 
As this be posted?
It does a fair job at describing the system functionality. It is a good starting point.
Overall I'm waiting to see more about what the system can do, but from a gamers pov the WiiU and a sane PC might end being the combination that covers the most bases.
 
All this Mii Verse talk.. why? It tells you nothing about the important features

There is still no info for actual multiplayer experience. Like setting up a multiplayer session on game with multiple people. Can you tap to join a session in progress?These are very seamless OS level features on VITA and XBL less so on PS3. Beacons take this a step further

Call of Duty at this point has no confirmed DLC or Elite...EA Sports have no ultimate team. Questions remain on infrastrucre

Actually Vita has "Activities" page which is very similar to Mii Verse without a fancy frontend.. You can see progress and comment on peoples profiles or game pages. Sure ingame messages could be a nice idea but remains to be seen
 
Come on people. Anyone thinking there won't be a massive leap in visuals for PS4/720 compared to WiiU is living in a deranged world. The differences will be massive, especially if tessellation takes off like it should.
 
Come on people. Anyone thinking there won't be a massive leap in visuals for PS4/720 compared to WiiU is living in a deranged world. The differences will be massive, especially if tessellation takes off like it should.

May I ask you who you are answering to? I've no expectation for the system to match either the next xbox or playstation. I just hope it is not too bad.
The thing is on the high side I expect a pc put together in late 2014 should keep up with whatever the next gen systems provide. The WiiU has a lot of things going for it when it comes to covering casual uses. Overall this and a pc might be the solution covering the most bases for gamers that touch a bit of everything.

Edit I started that answer at work, I didn't realized I posted it... plenty of mistakes and some words were actually missing, sorry.
 
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Maybe he's replying to the TheLump, whose message I almost replied too but then thought it was covered by others following responses.

It's absurd to think there won't be clearly obvious differences between the WiiU and the 720/PS4, especially when you consider it's CPU is already outmatched by the current consoles. Anybody selling this idea is either really drinking the kool-aide or wishing on a prayer and a dream that MS/Song take a Wii (Gamecube 1.5) approach with their next consoles.
 
May I ask you answering to? I've no expectation for the system to match either the next xbox ot playstation. I just hope it is not too bad.
The thing is on thr high side I expext a pc put together in late 2014 should keep up with whatever the next gen systems provide. The WiiU has a lot of things going for it when it comes to covrring casual uses. Overall this and a pc might be the solution covering the most bases for gamers.that touch a bit of everything.


Of course PC's will be higher powered in 2014, that's to be expected. What exactly does the WiiU have going for it (other than Nintendo games) for the casual gamer compared to what MS/Sony's next consoles? I don't buy the whole "Nintendo owns the casual gamer market" at all. But that's a different point of discussion.

Regarding hardware power I am lead to believe that there will be a very large difference in visuals and that PS4/720 will be leaps and bounds over what the WiiU can produce. I understand that the architectures, especially shaders, are similar and have evolved to the point to where they are today so that might help WiiU keep up, in a sense. However, if the machine this early in its life isn't even proving itself to be above and beyond PS360's capabilities doesn't leave me to much faith that it will be competitive in visuals with the next generation of consoles. Like I said before, it will be like the Dreamcast compared to the original Xbox at best. If the next gen machines have games that blow away the current crop of systems' in visual terms than WiiU doesn't stand a chance graphically. And if these machines have really nice CPU's with decent SIMD capabilities (AVX2 please though doubtful) than we may end up seeing some of that go towards making things prettier just as they are in the current gen of consoles.

Meh
 
Of course PC's will be higher powered in 2014, that's to be expected. What exactly does the WiiU have going for it (other than Nintendo games) for the casual gamer compared to what MS/Sony's next consoles? I don't buy the whole "Nintendo owns the casual gamer market" at all. But that's a different point of discussion.
I would not say that Nintendo owns the casual either. Though the brand is strong and easy to sell to parents, girls, kids.
I'm a believer in the capabilities of the WiiUmote and how parents will be pleased to have the option to keep the tv for them selves every once in a while.
I also think that no matter the gimmick (usually uninteresting) the device can bring stuffs to the gameplay. Execution is imho not flawless I was a bit floored when we learned that the screen was resistive and did not support multi-touch. (to say the truth I had also a bit too optimistic moment when it came too touch controls and would have wanted Nintendo to pass on physical controls at least in facade, spending more and more hours with my phone changed my pov).

Regarding hardware power I am lead to believe that there will be a very large difference in visuals and that PS4/720 will be leaps and bounds over what the WiiU can produce. I understand that the architectures, especially shaders, are similar and have evolved to the point to where they are today so that might help WiiU keep up, in a sense. However, if the machine this early in its life isn't even proving itself to be above and beyond PS360's capabilities doesn't leave me to much faith that it will be competitive in visuals with the next generation of consoles. Like I said before, it will be like the Dreamcast compared to the original Xbox at best. If the next gen machines have games that blow away the current crop of systems' in visual terms than WiiU doesn't stand a chance graphically. And if these machines have really nice CPU's with decent SIMD capabilities (AVX2 please though doubtful) than we may end up seeing some of that go towards making things prettier just as they are in the current gen of consoles.
This I completely agree with you ;)
Actually I passed ( or I assume I passed) for a hater because I was really iffy about some Nintendo design choices.
About this I'm not sure what you meant :LOL:
 
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Maybe he's replying to the TheLump, whose message I almost replied too but then thought it was covered by others following responses.

It's absurd to think there won't be clearly obvious differences between the WiiU and the 720/PS4, especially when you consider it's CPU is already outmatched by the current consoles. Anybody selling this idea is either really drinking the kool-aide or wishing on a prayer and a dream that MS/Song take a Wii (Gamecube 1.5) approach with their next consoles.

My point was simply that it wont be as per this gen. Take the 1313 demo (next gen quite impressive visuals) and take Halo 4 (current gen, very impressive considering what its running on). Thats not a huge difference to me. Sure its techinically a huge difference, but on the immediate impression the visuals give you - its not as huge of a step as say, Halo 2 to Halo 4 now is it? Thats all i'm saying. I'm fully aware that the 720/PS4 will outpace the WiiU comfortably in every area. I fear I'm being labelled as a WiiU simpathiser here but I'm not (i'm getting one, I'm just not bothered how it compares to anything else. Will likely replace my PS3 with either of the other two aswell). I just dont want people getting carried away either way.

Also, we have no idea if the "CPU is already outmatched by current consoles" as RancidLunchmeat said above. We have no actual information to confirm/deny this. All we've heard is that the clock speed is low and we also have no information as to whether that will actually matter or what it means. (for example I'm betting that if 720/PS4 have 6+ cores they are also going to have a lower clock speed than 360 - otherwise they'll melt.)

And finally, unrelated to WiiU really but if people are really thinking 2012 & 2013 PCs wont be able to keep up with 720/PS4 aren't they overestimating what Sony & Microsoft can and will cram into a box? Based on the rumours we've heard about Durango and Orbis devkits, there's nothing stopping you building a PC right now that will outperform them. So lets not get carried away. Remember they have to sell these things for +/-$400 (especially Sony).
 
My point was simply that it wont be as per this gen. Take the 1313 demo (next gen quite impressive visuals) and take Halo 4 (current gen, very impressive considering what its running on). Thats not a huge difference to me. Sure its techinically a huge difference, but on the immediate impression the visuals give you - its not as huge of a step as say, Halo 2 to Halo 4 now is it?

And yet a big reason people got excited for Halo 4 was it's intra-gen graphical excellence and improvements.

So yeah, I'm pretty sure we have proof an actual generational jump will be a pretty big deal, because lowly intra-gen jumps are.
 
My point was simply that it wont be as per this gen. Take the 1313 demo (next gen quite impressive visuals) and take Halo 4 (current gen, very impressive considering what its running on). Thats not a huge difference to me. Sure its techinically a huge difference, but on the immediate impression the visuals give you - its not as huge of a step as say, Halo 2 to Halo 4 now is it? Thats all i'm saying. I'm fully aware that the 720/PS4 will outpace the WiiU comfortably in every area. I fear I'm being labelled as a WiiU simpathiser here but I'm not (i'm getting one, I'm just not bothered how it compares to anything else. Will likely replace my PS3 with either of the other two aswell). I just dont want people getting carried away either way.

Also, we have no idea if the "CPU is already outmatched by current consoles" as RancidLunchmeat said above. We have no actual information to confirm/deny this. All we've heard is that the clock speed is low and we also have no information as to whether that will actually matter or what it means. (for example I'm betting that if 720/PS4 have 6+ cores they are also going to have a lower clock speed than 360 - otherwise they'll melt.)

And finally, unrelated to WiiU really but if people are really thinking 2012 & 2013 PCs wont be able to keep up with 720/PS4 aren't they overestimating what Sony & Microsoft can and will cram into a box? Based on the rumours we've heard about Durango and Orbis devkits, there's nothing stopping you building a PC right now that will outperform them. So lets not get carried away. Remember they have to sell these things for +/-$400 (especially Sony).

I just wanted to point out that STAR WARS 1313 lists and indicates itself as a current gen game.
It even lists as being developed for XBOX 360 and PS3, akin to WATCH DOGS.

Just sayin.
 
Right you are. In that case I have no basis for comparison/speculation! Do we have any examples of true "next gen" titles yet?

If 1313 is genuinely running on a 360, then although I dont think its a huge deal prettier than, say, Halo 4 visually - I'm impressed. As there are a lot of subtle details which when seen in motion make it look very nice indeed. I had assumed that was to be what the "AAA" early/launch games for 720 would look like.... :???:

No.

Unfortunately, next gen games doesn't really exist yet.

We do have that FINAL FANTASY/AGNI'S PHILOSOPHY tech demo though, which, in my opinion, assuming that was actual live action-FAST ACTION gameplay.....that to me would be NEXT GEN software.
That's what NEXT GENERATION should actually look like.

Hopefully we get it.

That's actually why I'm rooting for XBOX 3 and PS4 to launch closer to holiday 2014.....but that's for a different story.

Here's the tech demo in case you missed it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVX0OUO9ptU
 
No.

Unfortunately, next gen games doesn't really exist yet.

We do have that FINAL FANTASY/AGNI'S PHILOSOPHY tech demo though, which, in my opinion, assuming that was actual live action-FAST ACTION gameplay.....that to me would be NEXT GEN software.
That's what NEXT GENERATION should actually look like.

Hopefully we get it.

That's actually why I'm rooting for XBOX 3 and PS4 to launch closer to holiday 2014.....but that's for a different story.

Here's the tech demo in case you missed it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVX0OUO9ptU

Yeah thats pretty stunning stuff. I'd be shocked if a 720/PS4 released next year could acheive that in game (without being a behemoth, highly expensive and highly unreliable)
 
Yeah thats pretty stunning stuff. I'd be shocked if a 720/PS4 released next year could acheive that in game (without being a behemoth, highly expensive and highly unreliable)


Well, we don't actually know that XBOX 3 will make holiday 2013. Last decent rumor had Microsoft running into more CPU fab problems....and knowing Microsoft's bad hardware history (Microsoft sucks at making hardware), I believe it.


I'm also very sure that Sony's not really all that interested in a PS4 for 2013.


But yeah...if consoles could stave off until holiday 2014, then we could easily get those kinds of graphics in the PS4 and XBOX 3. That's why I'm rooting for that. :cool:
 
Well, we don't actually know that XBOX 3 will make holiday 2013. Last decent rumor had Microsoft running into more CPU fab problems....and knowing Microsoft's bad hardware history (Microsoft sucks at making hardware), I believe it.


I'm also very sure that Sony's not really all that interested in a PS4 for 2013.


But yeah...if consoles could stave off until holiday 2014, then we could easily get those kinds of graphics in the PS4 and XBOX 3. That's why I'm rooting for that. :cool:
You really think MS has been producing parts for 2013 launch? With the 360 they started in July of 2005.(less than 6 months before launch)
 
You really think MS has been producing parts for 2013 launch? With the 360 they started in July of 2005.(less than 6 months before launch)

Microsoft was planning and had XBOX 2 under way well before 2005.
In fact, Microsoft had acknowledged XBOX 2 as early as 2003.

Here a link from 2003.

ATI wins bid for next Xbox


It takes years to plan, design, fab, and market, and mass produce a successful console.....not months.
 
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