What Handheld Do You Want To See Next Generation?
- Thread starter Clashman
- Start date
Never mind. For all the rest of us old geezers who were curious:
Taken from http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=crunk
Taken from http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=crunk
" I also think Nintendo was in fact the *bigger* boy on the block."
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not at the time. the genesis outpaced the snes for many years, and only faultered because sega segmented the market with poor add-ons that they supported poorly. the snes wouldn't have a had the lead it had against the genesis if sega hadn't moved on to bigger and badder things (like the saturn), while nintendo was still pushing the snes to it's limits.
"GB beat GG to the market by 2 years"
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didn't the gameboy come out giftmas 89 while the gg came out giftmas 90? i'm getting old, though, and my memory might be fading.
" Nintendo also had the killer apps for their handheld, in Tetris and Dr. Mario."
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and sega had colums and dr robotnics big green machine, not to mention superior ports of mortal kombat and the best platformer for a handheld (sonic). it wans't lack of quality software, it was a higher price, shorted battery life, and bulky design that killed the gamegear, along with some poor marketing by sega and some good marketing by nintendo.
on a side note, nintendo still have tertis and dr mario. ahh... the glory that is backwards compatability.
c:
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not at the time. the genesis outpaced the snes for many years, and only faultered because sega segmented the market with poor add-ons that they supported poorly. the snes wouldn't have a had the lead it had against the genesis if sega hadn't moved on to bigger and badder things (like the saturn), while nintendo was still pushing the snes to it's limits.
"GB beat GG to the market by 2 years"
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didn't the gameboy come out giftmas 89 while the gg came out giftmas 90? i'm getting old, though, and my memory might be fading.
" Nintendo also had the killer apps for their handheld, in Tetris and Dr. Mario."
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and sega had colums and dr robotnics big green machine, not to mention superior ports of mortal kombat and the best platformer for a handheld (sonic). it wans't lack of quality software, it was a higher price, shorted battery life, and bulky design that killed the gamegear, along with some poor marketing by sega and some good marketing by nintendo.
on a side note, nintendo still have tertis and dr mario. ahh... the glory that is backwards compatability.
c:
From a hardware perspective I think its far better to use a chipset designed for portable gaming from the ground up, rather then a modified console chipset. I can't see a GC based handheld coming anywhere near, for instance, a MBX based portable for size, cost and battery life (the visual difference between them would be negligable in the handheld space AFAICS).
Assuming I've got the quoting right...
Unfortunately, Kyro doesn't have some of CLX's really funky stuff (eg trans sorting and modifier volumes) and, besides, CLX was also the memory controller for the CPU.jvd said:
I should think the answer is "both".legion said:
I think you might have been able to network whole display subsystems to create multi-screen units but you could gang together 16 rendering chips (at least, I don't believe that was possible).
You are correct.
That's where Elan comes in. It was (is) a T&L unit that directly drove two CLX rendering chips. Elan also distributed the scene data according to portions of the screen each CLX was assigned to render. I've estimated that even today's DX8/9 chips would be hard pressed to match its lighting calculation performance, but then that's the advantage of a "fixed" pipeline. The disadvantage is that it is, well, a fixed pipeline.Legion said:
Teasy said:
That is assuming, of course, that GC wasn't designed from the ground up to be translateable into a handheld. I could be wrong but I do think it has the lowest power consumption of the 3 major consoles this generation, (maybe DC was less, but I'm not sure). It also has a tiny disc system that to me would seem to fit a portable system, and that in some way would make up for the lack of DVD playing in the home console. But who knows.
i'm quite confident that nintendo won't release a portable gamecube ever. they may release a portable system based on gamecube tech, but i'm pretty sure it won't play gamecube games. nintendo has a history of making you buy the same game over and over again.
c:
c:
see colon said:
I've seen many indications that the SNES, once it was actually released, (which was about 2 years after the Genesis in the U.S.), did a pretty good job catching up to the Genesis, and by 1993 was outpacing it. The releases of the add-ons, IMO, were Sega trying to respond to the emerging threat of Nintendo's (mostly) superior hardware. Yes, Sega held the lead for a long time, but they never put Nintendo in the kind of position they are in now with Sony.
Gameboy came out in Japan on 21 April, 1989 and in the U.S. in August, 1989. The Gamegear came out in Christmas 90 in Japan and Christmas 91 in the U.S. By that time I think the Gameboy was already ahead by 5-10 million units.
From the sites I've been reading, eventually quality software did become a problem. I lost the link, but one site pointed out how Gamegear actually outsold gameboy in hardware sales for a significant portion of time, but during that whole time, Nintendo software sales still beat Sega by a significant margin. So if Sega had spent more time recruiting quality gamegear developers, we could have seen a different picture in the handheld department.
"Except for the providing the longest running compatible games system ever."
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yet they still managed to port erver nes/snes mario game to the gba (so you buy them again), and release classic nes game to buy again for the e-reader. hell, they even re-released links awakening for the original gameboy!
this isn't limited to the gb either. there were 2 versions of punch out for the nes, nintendo re-released the nes mario games on the snes, ect.
c:
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yet they still managed to port erver nes/snes mario game to the gba (so you buy them again), and release classic nes game to buy again for the e-reader. hell, they even re-released links awakening for the original gameboy!
this isn't limited to the gb either. there were 2 versions of punch out for the nes, nintendo re-released the nes mario games on the snes, ect.
c:
see colon said:
Well, the NES and SNES carts are a bit big to fit in the handheld....
The old NES games are small enough to actually fit on ereader cards, and many people have not played them.
Links Awakening DX was because they needed a killer app for the gbc, and fast.(besides, it was a good game and I never had the original, I'm glad they rereleased it, at least it had a new dungeon and very good graphics for a handheld at the time)
The versions of punch out for the nes were due to legal reasons or something, one just had Mike Tyson removed. You didn't have to buy the game again.
The NES Mario games on the SNES were given away free, so I don't see what the problem there is, and they were all given graphical(and I think audio) overalls, minor updates, and bug fixes.
However, if nintendo made a gc based portable(that used discs) that didn't play gamecube games, I'd imagine the reason would be that nintendo would be afraid of old gamecube game sales(or just people using their old games) that they already made money on would cannabalize the market for any new software they produce.
http://www.sega-saturn.com/saturn/other/mod3.htm
BTW, the model 3 may outperform naomi in flat shaded polygons/second(unless there is really really heavy overdraw), and I'm not sure about features, but if naomi was more powerful than model 3, why was the virtua fighter 3 port only like half as good in graphics?(even with being rushed, I would think that dreamcast would have been powerful enough to do it full quality or nearly full quality without even taking advantage of tbr)
BTW, the model 3 may outperform naomi in flat shaded polygons/second(unless there is really really heavy overdraw), and I'm not sure about features, but if naomi was more powerful than model 3, why was the virtua fighter 3 port only like half as good in graphics?(even with being rushed, I would think that dreamcast would have been powerful enough to do it full quality or nearly full quality without even taking advantage of tbr)
"The NES Mario games on the SNES were given away free, so I don't see what the problem there is, and they were all given graphical(and I think audio) overalls, minor updates, and bug fixes."
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although they were given away, they were also (iirc) sold at retail as well. people who didn't qualify for the promotion (wich was buy a snes durring a certain time period) had to cough up the money if they wanted to play those games on the snes.
"Links Awakening DX was because they needed a killer app for the gbc, and fast.(besides, it was a good game and I never had the original, I'm glad they rereleased it, at least it had a new dungeon and very good graphics for a handheld at the time)"
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and to get that extra dungeon you had to buy the game again. link's awakening dx wasn't actualy a gbc game, it was one of the hybrid games that would play on the original gb, but had a special pallet optimised for the gbc. it did not use anywhere near the full color pallet of the gbc, and looks signifigantly worse than the gbc only zelda games (ages and seasons). in fact, it looks only slightly better in most cases than the original links awakening on the gbc, with the main differance being in the cinema scenes.
"Well, the NES and SNES carts are a bit big to fit in the handheld....
The old NES games are small enough to actually fit on ereader cards, and many people have not played them. "
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but it doesn't change the fact that they are selling the exact same game over and over. i'm not saying it's really a bad thing. because of this i can now play mario3 pretty much anywhere (including home on the tv as soon as i can talk my wife into thinking i NEED a gameboy player) without having to did out my nes or snes.
the fact remains that nintendo has a history of selling the same gome on newer console, and sometimes the same console. they aren't the only ones. square has remade final fantasy how many times now? how many times has capcom re-sold or re-packaged (with a few extra features) street fighter 2?
i just don't see nintendo making a handheld that will play gamecube games. even if the hardware is virtualy identicle, i think they will find some way (different format) to get people to purchase the games again. and why wouldn't they, it's more money for them.
c:
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although they were given away, they were also (iirc) sold at retail as well. people who didn't qualify for the promotion (wich was buy a snes durring a certain time period) had to cough up the money if they wanted to play those games on the snes.
"Links Awakening DX was because they needed a killer app for the gbc, and fast.(besides, it was a good game and I never had the original, I'm glad they rereleased it, at least it had a new dungeon and very good graphics for a handheld at the time)"
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and to get that extra dungeon you had to buy the game again. link's awakening dx wasn't actualy a gbc game, it was one of the hybrid games that would play on the original gb, but had a special pallet optimised for the gbc. it did not use anywhere near the full color pallet of the gbc, and looks signifigantly worse than the gbc only zelda games (ages and seasons). in fact, it looks only slightly better in most cases than the original links awakening on the gbc, with the main differance being in the cinema scenes.
"Well, the NES and SNES carts are a bit big to fit in the handheld....
The old NES games are small enough to actually fit on ereader cards, and many people have not played them. "
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but it doesn't change the fact that they are selling the exact same game over and over. i'm not saying it's really a bad thing. because of this i can now play mario3 pretty much anywhere (including home on the tv as soon as i can talk my wife into thinking i NEED a gameboy player) without having to did out my nes or snes.
the fact remains that nintendo has a history of selling the same gome on newer console, and sometimes the same console. they aren't the only ones. square has remade final fantasy how many times now? how many times has capcom re-sold or re-packaged (with a few extra features) street fighter 2?
i just don't see nintendo making a handheld that will play gamecube games. even if the hardware is virtualy identicle, i think they will find some way (different format) to get people to purchase the games again. and why wouldn't they, it's more money for them.
c:
Well, Nintendo DID in fact intend for the SNES to be compatible with Original NES cartridges. What ended up happening, though, was they found out that they weren't able to do so without adding $75 to the cost of the machine, and so it was scrapped. Later they had also planned on releasing a converter, but for some reason that fell through as well, probably because by the time it was ready, most people had already dumped their NES in favor of the next-gen machines. There was in fact a 3rd party converter released, however, the Innovation Super-8 Converter.
"but if naomi was more powerful than model 3, why was the virtua fighter 3 port only like half as good in graphics?"
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vf3 was ported to dreamcast (not naomi) but not by sega. sega had it's hands full getting other launch titles ready and passed vf3 off to a 3rd party, who's name escapes me. i think it may have been the company that ported manxxtt superbike to the ss. the us release had many fixes that were not in the japanese version (massive shadow flicker turned into semi-frequent flickering, ect). but overall, compared to the excellent arcade version both were rubish visualy, but played rather faithfully.
i'm not sure i would say naomi was more powerfull than model3, they had different feature sets and different strengths/weaknesses. it's also important to note that naomi has twice the memory that dreamcast has (and if memory serves model 3 havd equal or greater than naomi, depending on the stepping), so a port from model3->dc (like vf3) would have to be toned down for memory reasons as well.
c:
edited to make coharent sentances
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vf3 was ported to dreamcast (not naomi) but not by sega. sega had it's hands full getting other launch titles ready and passed vf3 off to a 3rd party, who's name escapes me. i think it may have been the company that ported manxxtt superbike to the ss. the us release had many fixes that were not in the japanese version (massive shadow flicker turned into semi-frequent flickering, ect). but overall, compared to the excellent arcade version both were rubish visualy, but played rather faithfully.
i'm not sure i would say naomi was more powerfull than model3, they had different feature sets and different strengths/weaknesses. it's also important to note that naomi has twice the memory that dreamcast has (and if memory serves model 3 havd equal or greater than naomi, depending on the stepping), so a port from model3->dc (like vf3) would have to be toned down for memory reasons as well.
c:
edited to make coharent sentances
Super Grafx
Newcomer
Virtua Fighter 3 on Dreamcast was converted from Model 3 to DC in about 6 months, by Genki i believe, using non-final development kits, Step 4 iirc, which had something like 40% of DC's final performance. I could be wrong about one of those things, but i am pretty certain that was the gist of it. The result was, VF3 on DC that was closer to the arcade than VF2 on Saturn. If you recall, a year and a half before DC's Nov 1998 release, in mid 1997, Next Generation magazine said Model 3 games on BlackBelt/Dural would not be exact, but closer to arcade than Model 2 games on Saturn. this did come true.
If VF3 had 9 months to 1 year of development time, done by AM2, and using a final DC development kit, I believe a very very close reproduction of the arcade could have been done. look at Virtual On 2 (VOOT) on Dreamcast. It's very close to the Model 3 Step 2 arcade version.
Personally, I would like to see all Model 3 games converted to GCN and Xbox, though I know this has no chance of happening. sigh.
If VF3 had 9 months to 1 year of development time, done by AM2, and using a final DC development kit, I believe a very very close reproduction of the arcade could have been done. look at Virtual On 2 (VOOT) on Dreamcast. It's very close to the Model 3 Step 2 arcade version.
Personally, I would like to see all Model 3 games converted to GCN and Xbox, though I know this has no chance of happening. sigh.
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