What does the Wii use for storage and anti-piracy anyway?

[Iron Tiger]

Yeah, I honestly don't know where you heard that GC discs are dual layered, Rainbow Man. I think you're confused with the Dreamcast's dual layer CDs.

DC is single layer as well. There's a region of normal density tracks (like CD) on the inner portion of the disc, and a region of double-density tracks on the outer portion.

And the Wii supports the reading of dual-layer discs.

 

[dlm]

I know the Wii, like the 360, is cracked and people play "backups" on it. From talk on certain forums.

AFAIK only the PS3 isn't (yet).

The 360 is only half-cracked. There's no way to run unsigned code that works on any 360 that you can buy in stores. There was the hypervisor exploit, but it has been patched and the old version of the firmware is locked out (if you tried flashing to it, the console would no longer boot).

Has MS done anything about the DVD firmware crack aside from banning consoles that use it from XBL?

 

[Cheezdoodles]

Don't think so..

 

[Bohdy]

Update guys: It seems that Wii homebrew is now a reality!

Unencrypted memory was the Achilles heel. Video:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=H5YB1Mmx7E4

 

[digitalwanderer]

I get one and suddenly it's cracked, coincidence?

 

[BRiT]

Digi, they don't mean cracked with a hammer...

 

[digitalwanderer]

I USED CHANNEL-LOCKS, NOT A HAMMER!

 

[StefanS]

I thought it was them huge indiana rats that gnawed it open.

 

[Bohdy]

Btw, the Wii hack was just the tail end of a much longer presentation on Xbox 360 security. Its actually very interesting, and you can watch the full thing here: http://xbox360.qj.net/Video-deconstructing-the-Xbox-360-s-silicon-based-security/pg/49/aid/110727

Even though it is has been broken, Microsoft made some very intelligent choices with the security architecture, I think.

 

[mesyn191]

There was the hypervisor exploit, but it has been patched and the old version of the firmware is locked out (if you tried flashing to it, the console would no longer boot).

They figured out a way to bypass the lock out and install the old firmware that has the exploit still in it....

 

[Frank]

The main funny of all this is, that while those guys mostly want those consoles to boot Linux, so they can tinker with them and run their own programs (homebrewn), it has been much easier to have all of them run "backup copies" than doing that.

The best way to keep that security intact a lot longer would very likely be to allow them to do simply that. And if it turns out that it doesn't, it won't really make a difference.

 

[Blackraven]

So I guess there is no issue between the anti-hacking measures used in GC compared to those with the Wii in regards to disc size.

The GC used 8 cm discs (read the wiki article) so I guess that's the reason why it has hard to crack back then because there was no blank disc that can fit into the GC drive bay at that time (unless you chop/slice portions of a 12cm disc to make it 8cm sized).

But during the year 2004 or so, when DVD camcorders became more popular, I guess that's when companies released blank 8 cm discs to the public. So I guess that in turn led to the start of GC piracy (because the blank media to pirate the storage medium is now made available to the public).

Or at least that's how I understand it.

So I guess that it didn't matter at all if the Wii didn't use 8 cm discs because either way, it would be pirated the same way that GC was (as blank 8cm and 12cm discs are sold publicly). Just that the storage was more abundant on the other.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

GC used non-standard data encoding AFAIK, so it wasn't just a case of using smaller disks. You actually need a drive that can produce the same data. Don't quote me on that though!

 

[StefanS]

I also remeber that bunnie (the first guy to start hacking the Xbox) saying that you might have to dissolve the RAM in sulphuric acid because the ROM might be located with the A-RAM.

For those of you looking to get the ROM contents of the Nintendo gamecube, it's not as easy as the Xbox. Their motherboard has no generic FLASH or recognizeable ROM part on it; my current suspicion is that it's part of a multi-chip package (or maybe even integrated into the same die--that's unlikely, though, due to the volatility of ROM code as the console matures). I'm guessing the "ARAM" chip contains the ROM (probably a synchronous interface ROM so it can share a common bus easily with an SDRAM) and the "slow" SDRAM in a combo package...maybe I'll sacrifice a GameCube for the sake of curiosity and dissolve the package with hot sulfuric or better yet try and shave the package down so I can extract the pinout through visual inspection. I also noticed that the same pins that go to the "high-speed expansion port" appear to go straight from the ARAM chip to a connector, so perhaps an o-scope plus a peripheral that plugs into the port will lend clues...if anyone has any info, I'd be curious to hear it.

But I don't know what really was the key to hacking the GCN. I remember though that the original method involved the ethernet adapter and Sega's Phantasy Star Online. So that could have been instrumental in the final hacking of the GCN as well.

 

[....]

Until you can just copy a disc straight out and play it with minor modifications to the h/w I don't think piracy will be too rampant. I mean, I'll check out the links and elsewhere on the web, but from talks here it seems there are still problems accessing the discs, needing to obtain special patches, etc.

I mean, iirc, some of the older consoles you could rip the discs and run the backups with minor modifications. Given the ease of obtaining discs, and the low-price of backup media, it is a really horrible situation to be in. So long as the console makers avoid this, they shouldn't worry much.

 

[dlm]

They figured out a way to bypass the lock out and install the old firmware that has the exploit still in it....

Do you have any information on the details of this? The implementation of the lockout is pretty tricky, I'd be curious to know how it was done.

Do they have a solution that is reasonably replicatable... or is it prohibitively difficult?

Edit: Actually, I saw the bit in the video. It seems like a pretty trivially defeatable attack. If they're beating it by a timing attack in the boot loader, it seems like they can just patch the bootloader to do a full compare. I wonder if this is in the works...

I didn't realize there was the extra bit at the end. I saw this talk when they gave it in Redmond before the timing attack had been discovered :smile: So I had initially assumed it was the same. (Speaking of that talk... Bunny is an absolute madman).

 

[Fox5]

The wii's anti piracy measure is more physical than software/hardware.

The dvd drive can be hacked to read any discs through some diagnostics port I suppose, but more recently nintendo has cut the traces and pins on the drive controller chip. Doesn't stop hacking, but I'd imagine it greatly curbs casual hacking.

The wii can also be hacked to read dual layer dvds by adjusting the strength of the drive laser slightly.

 

[itsmydamnation]

i've modded ( and killed) a few wii's, im not sure what the deal is with the cut pins, based on serial numbers it just seems to be random patches with the D2B rev chips and there are a few in the D2C chips.

as said before the anti modding for the wii is more based around physical. on a D2C you have over 20 wires to solder onto the D2C chip itself and on the ones that have the pins cut you have to dremel into the chip iself to find the required "wires" and solder from there.

of the machines i have modded before (PS2, XBOX, Wii) it is by far the hardest to physically do.

edit: jsut so you know mod chips aren't illegal where i live, just dont play any pirated games.

 

[Fox5]

Heh, you might need those mod chips now that smash bros is delayed. It'd be nice to import the earlier Japanese release as the game isn't particularly text reliant (and may even have a considerable amount of english text in the Japanese version anyway).