(Interview) NVidia on Playstation 3, Xbox 360, & Wii

Uhm. The problem wasn't that NVIDIA didn't have the resources to put on it if they had to. The problem was that there was no sensible economic reason to do so. The Xbox360 contract ATI got is significantly less lucrative than NVIDIA's XBox1 contract, and also less lucrative than their PS3 contract. And yet, ATI's R&D investment most likely had to be higher than for both of NV's contracts combined.

Uttar
 
RancidLunchmeat said:
WOW! All those replies and only Hardknock comes close to touching on what I found was the most important/revealing part of the interview.

That nVidia simply couldn't afford to develop the gpu for the 360. That's huge, IMO. I'm sorry if maybe that's 'old' news, but it certainly does speak to the fact that Sony got an 'off the shelf' GPU from nVidia for the PS3, while MS got a custom gpu from ATI.

You got it wrong. He meant that nV wasn't ready to invest that much R&D money for so little revenues, that's all. ATI decided to do so in order to "get in the game" with the big guys in the console market.

And back then ATI was much bigger than nV due to notebooks and OEM's etc. although they were nowhere in the high-end prior to R300.
 
_xxx_ said:
And back then ATI was much bigger than nV due to notebooks and OEM's etc.
Actually, no, he was exclusively speaking in terms of number of engineers working for the company. ATI used to have a huge lead there, which is why they could diversify earlier than NVIDIA. I don't even recent numbers, but I'd imagine NV's number of engineers is much nearer ATI's nowadays.

Uttar
 
Uttar said:
Actually, no, he was exclusively speaking in terms of number of engineers working for the company. ATI used to have a huge lead there, which is why they could diversify earlier than NVIDIA. I don't even recent numbers, but I'd imagine NV's number of engineers is much nearer ATI's nowadays.

Uttar

Yeah, that too.

OT: But how will the AMD/ATI story affect all this?
 
Uttar said:
And yet, ATI's R&D investment most likely had to be higher than for both of NV's contracts combined.
And directly feeds into R5xx and R6xx. And set a significant portion of what's new in D3D10. It's why ATI is prolly several years ahead of NVidia in terms of unification.

Work done for consoles, by both of them (including ArtX from before becoming part of ATI) is obviously a big part of pushing forwards PC tech.

Jawed
 
_xxx_ said:
OT: But how will the AMD/ATI story affect all this?

More generally I thought it was interesting how much AMD came up in this interview and some of the points raised in that regard, without mention of the rumoured ATi acquisition. Huang probably wouldn't want to talk about it until it happened, but some of the things he raised like AMD's openess or that they build integrated graphics for AMD etc. seem like potential areas of change in a post-acquisition landscape (?)

edit - didn't realise, but AMD have made it official
 
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Overwhelmingly, it sounds like I would never want any of you handling financial decissions at any company I am eployed with.

Capital expenditure, risk assesment, potential/probable return. Taking a look at all of these factors- why would a company in nV's position want to even think about signing a deal with MS? With a royalty kickback model in place if we assume that MS is going to double their sales over last generation, a task that would never be assumed in a reasonable risk assesment model, then they are looking at a potential of 50Million units. With only royalty fees being paid on a per chip basis the idea of diverting any reasonable amount of engineering resources to the project made next to no sense. A heavily customized design with only a partial ability to cross utilize the technology developed- it isn't a winning combination for a company that was in nV's position.

This has almost nothing to do with the FX series nor does it have to do with the 6 series. Both of those teams were quite occupied in the timeframe that we are talking about. The team working on the G80 design or the G70 team would be the only viable choices- and either of those teams would have left rather sizeable gaps in their lineup. Diverting a sizeable portion of either team for the potential ROI for the 360 vs the potential ROI in the PC space didn't make any sense. From a business standpoint, using a relatively modified version of an off the shelf part with a realistic potential ROI of double to quadruple what the 360 offered is a no brainer(between contract and reasonable installed base expectations base on market trends).

The best way to think of nV's choices v ATi is that nV had a market cap of nearly double ATi prior to the acquisition announcement. It isn't about designing the 'coolest' technology- it is about utilizing your resources to fill market demands in the most reasonable manner possible.

Obviously the argument will be put forth about the unified architecture paying long term dividends for ATi- the problem with that assumption is that we haven't seen anything to back that up yet. On paper the design theory behind the P4 should have wiped the floor with the Athlon. On paper most people on these forums thought that the FX was going to edge out the R300. Maybe it will pay off for them, I'm not saying it won't. What I am saying is that with their efforst focused on unified they don't have the expertise in knowing what would have been possible with segmented that nVidia has. That works both ways without a doubt, but most seem to be assuming that US is somehow in and of itself going to give ATi a big edge when we have absolutely nothing to back that assertion up yet. Perhaps it will and ATi's bet will have paid off. nV's did for the original XBox. For all the talk about their shortcomings of the FX series, I think if you gave nV the option that they would lose out for a single generation in the GPU segment and become the second largest chipset manufacturer in the world to go along with that they would have taken the deal. It may end up being a long term stroke of genius for ATi, but it is a much larger gamble then what nV did for Sony. Maybe the ROI will be huge, but the downside could end up being comparable(although now it will largely be masked either way with the acquisition).
 
Do you think you picked the right horse in the video game war this time?

You can't build chips for all the game consoles. That's not possible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wii#Technical_specifications
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ps3#Central_processing_unit_.28CPU.29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360#Central_processing_unit

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerPC

We all bicker about Microsoft this, Sony that, Nintendo there...but we all know IBM is the real winner here ;)

On a more serious and timely note - with the (proposed) merger between AMD and ATI, would it not be logical to assume fabs can be cross utilized to increase chip output between the two companies...in essence, potentially allowing "chips to be built for all consoles" ?
 
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Given how the Xbox 360 turned out, did you have any regret about not winning the graphics chip for that console?

Not at all. We could not afford to build the graphics for the 360. Our most important asset is our people. If we use our people on a project where the economic return is not good enough, and there are other projects we could be working on, then we're going to lose money. We were a lot smaller company than ATI at the time. Maybe ATI could afford it and we couldn't. I know I couldn't afford it. I would love to build it. I just can't afford it.


vs.

What long-term effect will this have ?
Our PC strategy is to be the leading innovator of GPU and core logic for both Intel and AMD platforms. GeForce is the #1 GPU brand. Quadro is the #1 professional and workstation graphics brand. nForce the #1 core logic brand. And SLI is the #1 multi-GPU brand. They are specifically sought out by end users of both Intel and AMD processors. Today's announcement only enhances our strategy.

Why do you think ATI went for this ? It's financial status ?
GeForce has taken 80% of the performance market. Quadro is over 80% of the workstation market. We are taking share at OEMs. We are taking share in notebook. ATI needs to explore strategic options.

(Taken from nVidia invertview on AMD/Ati merger

Im confused about who's larger than who.
 
Doesn't seem like an interview with someone from Nvidia. Much too nice.

Do you think you picked the right horse in the video game war this time?
and
Given how the Xbox 360 turned out, did you have any regret about not winning the graphics chip for that console?

I would expect an answer like "Absolutely, Sony dominated the last generation, they'll do it again."



ATI is excited about unified shaders. If you pull back, how do you see if your people are making the right decisions?

I would've expected "One day, unified shaders may be the way to go, but for now, dedicated vertex and pixel shaders are definitely superior. We made the right choice."

And other quotes I was surprised at:

Microsoft is very clever
Dreamcast was a very good machine (remember the ragging on Powervr a few years ago)
 
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