What is the right price for games?

edepot

Banned
Ok, here is something that may not play well with some people, but better let it out than keep it bottled up. It deals with future markets for software and games (including east european and asian countries)

Current software (and game) prices are out of whack. Let me give you some examples...

1) Windows 7 costs about $300 for the most featured one.

2) Good PS3 and XBOX360 games can reach $65 dollars on average, then discounted to $40 after selling for about a year. We are talking blockbusters mainly here (not some cheapo ones that are not on anyone's wishlist).

3) Good PSP games come in about $20 dollars less than that. So about $45 for a good game.

3) A good movie costs about $30 dollars to buy nowadays.

5) A good movie costs about $10 dollars on average in the theatre nowadays.

6) A good iPhone game is about $6 dollars, now moving towards the average $1 dollar price point.


All the above use some sort of Digital Rights Management to prevent copying. In other words, you either pay at that price, or don't watch or play at all. No middle ground, not alternative costs (except for piracy and homebrew). Because consoles lock up who can create games for it (via their DRM signing and disc creation process), the manufacturers in turn dictate the average price for games. There are no alternative market for games. Only those approved. Now lets see who is enforcing what prices. Sony and Microsoft are trying up push UP the prices, while Apple is trying to push DOWN the prices. $60 average to $1 average is a 60 times markup.


Now lets look at the market for software. The biggest number of internet users are now in China, followed by the United States and then Japan. We will concentrate on average consumers (the majority of people who buy games and software), which the largest majority segment fits into the lower to middle class.

The average wage of someone in China earns about $150 a month, pushing $300.
The average wage of someone in US earns about $2000 a month, pushing $4000 a month.

Now lets go down the list of prices to match the population market. Starting with Microsoft, you might think they are nuts to enforce non-pirate copies on a nation with average consumer salary of $200 a month. A person would have to go without food or shelter there for a month or more just to buy an operating system. It would be like someone in the United States spending $4000 for Windows 7 (or Vista or XP Professional). If you thought $60 dollars was expensive for a good console game, imagine paying $4000 just for the right to have an operating system, else the OS gets disabled remotely because it is not genuine. A legitimate price in China would be the same as how much you would pay in the USA. $300 in USA would be about $20 in China in earnings rate. Even so, $300 is still too much in the US, as someone would probably balk at paying more than $100. In that case the price in China should be $7 dollars in that country's earnings rate.

What about games? A $60 dollar blockbuster game in the USA would come to about $4 dollars in China.

What about movies? A $10 dollar theatre in the USA would come to about 80 cents in China.
($30 buy to own is about $2.50)

Which we now come to Apple's iPhone game prices: 99 cents, up to $6.00 This price point matches the market for China perfectly as that is the price that meets the earning rate there. Using these prices, converting from China to US earnings rate, you would spend about $12 dollars up to $100 (which is pushing it near the higher end) So the average price should be around 99 cents to $3 dollars.

For all the above we totally ignore the currency exchange to yuan, and everything is done in dollars (using earning power per country to dictate pricing points). Perhaps now people know why some movies and some games/software will always get pirated, or never bought in certain European and Asian countries... It is just simply unrealistic to enforce prices on a country with different average earnings rate.

So here is the conclusion to the topic of this post: if software and games are to be a global phenomena, rather than catered just to a few countries, then pricing based on earning power needs to be taken into account. Sony and Microsoft are catering to US, Japan, and some European countries. Apple's pricing (only on their iphone) can be catered towards all the rest (including developing ones). You might say open source caters to everyone, as it is free.

So what is the average price that console games should be priced at globally?
 
Prices aren't set globally. It's not a global market with a global currency and unified global economy. Commerce (like it or not) is about charging what people will pay, not charging what is fair and right. That's why the price of petrol, TVs, everything, can vary wildly. Economies with less money will either get the same product at reduced price, or localised products, or just be ignored until they can afford to pay whatever the produce wants to charge.
 
Cinema, movies and music is waaaay too expensive over here. Cinema will easily cost you 8 euro's and that's without getting raped on food and beverage prices which easily make for 18 euro's just to see a movie. Though I dont like cinema's no matter what the price is but I suppose 5 euro's is more like it.

Cd's are about 20 euro's here. Dont even think about buying those. 10 euro's is more like it, maybe even more towards 8 euro's.

Movies are about 20 euro's and up. Again way too expensive and again I dont even think about buying those untill they are around the 10 euro pricepoint.

Nintendo DS games are 40 euro's (psp probably the same). I bought about 10 for that price, not doing it anymore. Just too expensive. 20 euro's is the max, 15 euro's more like it for your average game.

Wii and pc games are generally 50 euro's. I suppose that is a decent price for the AAA games. Maybe a couple of euro's off.

X360 and ps3 games are generally 60 euro's, some ps3 games 70. Or atleast, they used to be. Too expensive if you ask me but I dont own neither so I dont care but I certainly wont be buying much games at that price.
 
Here in Bulgaria the two major retailers have found a way to "persuade" publishers into selling big-name AAA PC games for ~35 EUR instead of the normal (for the rest of the EU, AFAIK) 60 EUR; unfortunately for me, who prefers my gaming on the proverbial Comfy Couch and 46" TV, Xbox 360 games still cost 60 EUR.

I'm convinced we need more different price points for games, all the way from the $10 XBLA games to the $100 Guitar Heroes and special editions; I want somebody to be able to sell an excellent single-player-only FPS for $30 and not be lambasted in reviews that it pales in comparison to the 142 different game modes and career progression perks of Call of Duty and Halo. More pricepoints would allow publishers to operate on different points on the investment/risk/reward curve, and thus get us more variety.

I see good development in this direction lately - the $20 Torchlight, the appearance of 50 EUR Xbox 360 games (instead of the normal 60 EUR), even beloved Bobby Kottick's experiments with raising the price of COD:MW2 and selling DJ Hero / Ride for $100.

A race to the bottom with prices would be lethal to the industry - just ask an iPhone developer why not release a game for the atrocious, unthinkable price of $4.99 and watch the reaction.
 
Why would software be priced globally? Food isn't. You can buy a nice dinner for 10 people with booze in Beijing for under $100. It should be that price in New York?

Sale prices for anything have to support the channel to market - labor, taxes, rent, utilities, etc. - of everything in that channel. Some places are far more expensive than others (regulations, labor rates, etc.). If you want to price software or anything globally then please implement uniform rent, energy costs, labor rates, etc. first.

:)
 
MSRP of console games here is 70€, which I never pay... I usually import from the US or UK (PS3 rocks in that regard :D), and never pay more than 40€ per game, but usually abour 30€. Every so often I get discounted PC games (28€ for Dragon Age, 10€ for Left for Dead).

In my opinion, console games got too expensive to be "impulse buys". If the games would be about half (35€), I'd probably spent the same, or even more cash on games, yet I would try MANY more "might be good" games.
 
It all depends on the game and what its worth to me. Batman or cod mw 2 or even dragon age I would willingly buy for $70 .

Some games deserve $40 or $50.


new movies i don't pay more than $25 for and thats on bluray with the dvd and dd version thrown in. TV shows I don't pay more than $40 for and on blruay.

PSP games aren't worth much to me. But ds game should not be more than $20



With the consoles though developers should strive to price the games properly. To many games come out at $60 when they are worth $30 and devs should keep in mind that if you release a game like that at $60 when it finally drops to $30 no one will look at it .
 
My opinion is that somewhere between 60 and 70 euros is fine but the price are not going down quick enough after some months second market is more attractive than buying the game new.
Editors should be more willing to sell game through game on demand as retailer at the same price prefer sell a second hand game than a new one, marging...
Steam shows the way imho, aggessive pricing, more promos etc.
 
40-50 usd is what I would consider "prime" costs. I am not overly excited about spending 60 usd per title, but its not something that I balk at.


On a side note the average BD movie cost has been around 20 usd on major releases (at least here locally anyways).
 
40-50 usd is what I would consider "prime" costs. I am not overly excited about spending 60 usd per title, but its not something that I balk at.


On a side note the average BD movie cost has been around 20 usd on major releases (at least here locally anyways).
Neither but I'm used to wait a little before buying a game. My problem is that in quiet some shops next to my place it's sometime difficult to find some games new and almost impossible to find classic/platinum ones they keep stock minimal, second hand market is more profitable to them, editors so far have failed to take this in account.

The whole selling at higher price to make up for lost revenue is crazy to suicidal. It's only push more people to piracy/second hand market. They should try to lost less sales before playing with the nerves of their "good costumers".
 
The problem is that we have one shot to get it right in games. Whereas with movies you have a multitude of opportunities, I have told my Stargate story before but I saw it in the theatre, bought the original flipper DVD, bought the single DVD, bought the special edition DVD and then bought the ultimate edition DVD...those guys made a couple of bucks off me. Unless we can continually do something akin to the God of War combo coming out, we "have" to charge a higher price.

Now I am fully aware that the execs who make you do things you don't want to do <---(true story, no I don't want to talk about it) would probably give another excuse as to why games would still need to be $60 even with a mythical multitude of revenue streams from, gold, BEST/Platinum/Hits, re-mastered, directors cut, re-mastered directors cut, uber-this is the last time for real re-re-re-mastered directors rhodium edition.
 
The answer to that question is determined by customer behavior, not any kind of formula. If no one wants your game at $60, it's overpriced. If it's flying off the shelves at $80, it's not overpriced. And if cutting the price to the point people are actually willing to buy it means you lose money, it's just a bad game.
 
Neither but I'm used to wait a little before buying a game. My problem is that in quiet some shops next to my place it's sometime difficult to find some games new and almost impossible to find classic/platinum ones they keep stock minimal, second hand market is more profitable to them, editors so far have failed to take this in account.

The whole selling at higher price to make up for lost revenue is crazy to suicidal. It's only push more people to piracy/second hand market. They should try to lost less sales before playing with the nerves of their "good costumers".

You are hardly going to reduce piracy or the second hand market by reducing price. Someone who doesn't mind saving $10-$20 dollars buying a used game over the $60 new version is hardly going to be more aversed to saving $7-14 dollars on buying the used version of a $40 game.

The only thing that pushes people to piracy is how readily available and how easy the pirating tools are to use for any particular media. The most readily pirated media is music and songs can be bought legimately for a $1.00, which is about 60X cheaper than games.

You also have to take in to account not only the cost of acquistion of one particular title when thinking about pirating but the cost of acquistion of a library of titles.

Even, if games only cost $5 dollars a titles, it would still cost me over a $1000 dollars to legitimately acquire 15% of the total titles available for all three systems. This is why people still pirate music, because while the cost to acquire any one particular song is fairly cheap, the cost to acquire a library big enough to put a dent in the capacity of a non low end ipod can run into several thousands of dollars.
 
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You are hardly going to reduce piracy or the second hand market by reducing price.
The only way you would reduce the 2nd-hand market is by making more games worth keeping. However, you would increase new sales. The reason is that someone willing to wait 6 months and buy secondhand in order to pay $45 instead of $60 is not necessarily equally willing to wait 6 months and buy secondhand to pay $30 instead of $40. It may be that at $40, "new" and "now" add enough value to the product that he is now willing to buy.
Even, if games only cost $5 dollars a titles, it would still cost me over a $1000 dollars to legitimately acquire 15% of the total titles available for all three systems.
Most people probably don't game enough to play 15% of all the titles released for every system.
 
The only way you would reduce the 2nd-hand market is by making more games worth keeping. However, you would increase new sales. The reason is that someone willing to wait 6 months and buy secondhand in order to pay $45 instead of $60 is not necessarily equally willing to wait 6 months and buy secondhand to pay $30 instead of $40. It may be that at $40, "new" and "now" add enough value to the product that he is now willing to buy.

True, but as a pub or a dev, you have to sell slightly more than 3 titles instead of 2 to produce the same revenue, so now you need a third consumer to step in and buy a title. Plus, you have to take account the increase demand used titles will generate at the lower price point. An increase in new game sales will be countered by increase sales of used titles if both fall in price.

Most people probably don't game enough to play 15% of all the titles released for every system.

Most people don't have the time to listen to 40 Gbs of music but that doesn't stop people from pirating that level of a library and dropping it on their Ipod.
 
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As another example, Sony are just releasing PS2 in Brazil for $445. Regional pricing, like it or not. Even on download content which has little overhead variation depending on where you are.
 
Most people don't have the time to listen to 40 Gbs of music but that doesn't stop people from pirating that level of a library and dropping it on their Ipod.

Actually its not hard to listen to a lot of music, it requires significantly less effort and attention than playing a game.
 
The only way you would reduce the 2nd-hand market is by making more games worth keeping.
Or not worth selling. The vast amount of £10 quality titles around have made me buy more games than I can play and play and spend (way) more than I would were they all RRP. Hell, it's almost not worth giving them away.
Anecdote: I asked a friend if he wanted my copy of Mirrors Edge, to which he replied after learning that it was £6.99: "Nah, don't bother. At that price, I'll just order it." (He did.)
 
Actually its not hard to listen to a lot of music, it requires significantly less effort and attention than playing a game.

True, but I doubt those that regularly pirate music readily make use of 15-30 thousand minutes of music, which even at listening for 8 hours a day would provide 30-60 days of unique listening (no repeats).

People pirate large amounts of music because its free and not because of some inherent need to broaden their music listening to the point of hearing any one song just a few times a year. People would pirate games at the same level (if it was as easy as pirating music) even though the prospect of gaming through 200 titles would require an huge amount of time.

When its free, there is no need for practical justification.
 
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