What do you see the next gen consoles doing Graphicly?

[jvd]

Show me one game that surpasses the final fantsy rendered scene that they had whe nthe ps2 launch.

Silent Hill 3.

As for the xbox comment... not even the ps2 will be selling at the current pace by then... all last gen console sales/support, will begin to slowly halt... beginning by those in 2/3rd position, up to the market leader.

Yeah, some ports of psx games to dc do look very similar, even the n64 re 2-3 likely look similar to psx games.

But, still sony clearly stated this gen(no psx/ps2 hybrid games are allowed.), and most games 'moved' from psx to ps2 received at least a decent upgrade... True some of the games that are 'MOVED' from the ps2/xbox dev. to the ps3 platform, if thrown out with minor upgrades could look real bad, but I doubt that will be allowed.

when was silent hill 3 released ?

Okay some gaves that are moved. Above there are games that aren't moved in the pics and look close to each other. Zelda oot looks close to some of the dreamcast launch tittles.

 

[zidane1strife]

Ok, fine FFX, MGS2, Tekken Tag... all look better than that demo.

As for the xbox to ps3... keep in mind that shall sony deliver/overdeliver(they've done so in the past, so it is likely...) on their promised number... The difference between the ps3 and xbox shall significantly exceed the difference between the ps2 and psx...

 

[Paul]

"then i hae the wrong name for it . THe main chip is what. THe ee ? the second one is thegraphics sysnthiser ? THe gs has about the same abilitys as the voodo2 cards on the pc."

Emotion Engine renders, the Graphics Synthesizer draws.

Emotion Engine can render 66 million polygons per second, then the GS draws them onto the screen.

GS can draw 75 million polygons per second, can you see a voodoo doing that? I didn't think so.

 

[jvd]

Ok, fine FFX, MGS2, Tekken Tag... all look better than that demo.

As for the xbox to ps3... keep in mind that shall sony deliver/overdeliver(they've done so in the past, so it is likely...) on their promised number... The difference between the ps3 and xbox shall significantly exceed the difference between the ps2 and psx...

Mgs2 and tekken tag do not look better than the ff demo. I will give you the cut scenes in FFx but not the actually game play.

Mabye , but as i talked about earlier in the thread we are hitting the point of dimishing returns.

 

[Paul]

You still dodge the question, SHOW ME one psone game that can compete with tekken tag graphicly.

 

[jvd]

"then i hae the wrong name for it . THe main chip is what. THe ee ? the second one is thegraphics sysnthiser ? THe gs has about the same abilitys as the voodo2 cards on the pc."

Emotion Engine renders, the Graphics Synthesizer draws.

Emotion Engine can render 66 million polygons per second, then the GS draws them onto the screen.

GS can draw 75 million polygons per second, can you see a voodoo doing that? I didn't think so.

polygons are not what i'm talking about . I'm talking about filtering , texturing , hardware effects and of course output quality. IF all you have is a game pushing a 100million polygons a you'll have another virtual fighter (the first one)

 

[Paul]

Oh really?

You said a voodoo competed with the GS in all 'abilities' by abilities you disregard polygon performance? rofl

A voodoo CANNOT do silent hill 3 end of story.

 

[zidane1strife]

Mgs2 and tekken tag do not look better than the ff demo.

I think they do, your memory is adding detail to the demo scene(shows how much of a jump, and impression the ps2 demos caused on everyone since this happens in many boards...).

Tekken tag features up to 4 VERY high detail char. models onscreen in a very detailed env. with dozens of onlookers, at what was it? I think it's 60fps or no?

That demo had only 2 chars. with simple background, etc...

 

[marconelly!]

then i hae the wrong name for it . THe main chip is what. THe ee ? the second one is thegraphics sysnthiser ? THe gs has about the same abilitys as the voodo2 cards on the pc.

GS is the rasterizer, and I'd hardly say it has the same capabilities as Voodoo 2. I don't know about the supported functions, but it's speed is on a completely different league.

That dancing demo really wasn't anything special looking. You probably remember it looking better than it really did. I've seen it few weeks ago, and was surprised myself how much better I thought it looked than it really did.

 

[zidane1strife]

You still dodge the question, SHOW ME one psone game that can compete with tekken tag graphicly.

Paul he knows there is none. He is arguing that since DC was the first of the next gen consoles(just like ps3 will likely be the first of the new cycle.), we should compare the psx/n64 to the DC.

Still, since the ps3 is likely to be a jump more akin to psx to xbox... The argument fails, DC was a 199$ console by a company on the ropes, Impressive for it's time... but next gen... no one will be on a budget, next gen consoles are likely to be sold at a loss of 200-300$ per unit...

EDITED

PS The silicon cycle has also hastened from the time of the last generational shift...

 

[jvd]

then i hae the wrong name for it . THe main chip is what. THe ee ? the second one is thegraphics sysnthiser ? THe gs has about the same abilitys as the voodo2 cards on the pc.

GS is the rasterizer, and I'd hardly say it has the same capabilities as Voodoo 2. I don't know about the supported functions, but it's speed is on a completely different league.

That dancing demo really wasn't anything special looking. You probably remember it looking better than it really did. I've seen it few weeks ago, and was surprised myself how much better I thought it looked than it really did.

mabye i do remember it better than it is. I do know that ttt looked really bad though. Mgs2 was perhaps the best looking launch tittle for the system. (Did this come out at launch?)

Here are the specs of the tnt card and the 3dfx cards .

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=295&p=2

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=823&p=2


the voodoo2 is 98 tech and the tnt is 99 tech. In 2000 we had this

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1157 and also the ddr version. That is the same year we got the ps2. The geforce while not able to put out as many polygons certianly makes up for it by being able to do more effects and better filtering abiltys than the gs.

Do you have a link to the specs so we can compare them more easily ?

While the ee was amazing the gs was just ho humed. If the ps3 repeats its self then the cell chip will be amazing (already is) but the graphics chip will be ho humed. Remember the system may be coming out in 2005 but 99% of will be based on ideas and techs around now and next year. They need to finalize and get production ready at leasta year before its ready to come out . Otherwise there will be huge shortages at launch.

 

[Paul]

The fact is this, this next gen is going to be a bigger leap than psx to ps2.

ps2 to ps3 will be a bigger leap than psone to ps2, im not gonna lie, sony REALLY messed up on the Graphics Synthesizer for ps2.

Even still, the system can push VERY good graphics with it's higher quality games. With PS3, Sony knows the problems with PS2, and there will be no problems with aliasing, mip maping or image quality.

I even heard that Sony was talking to Nvidia on the basis of next gen consoles.

 

[LogisticX]

Well I'll just jump in and say that there isn't anything on the PSX/N64 that touches Soul Calibur or Sonic Adventure - both first gen, DC titles.

 

[jvd]

The fact is this, this next gen is going to be a bigger leap than psx to ps2.

ps2 to ps3 will be a bigger leap than psone to ps2, im not gonna lie, sony REALLY messed up on the Graphics Synthesizer for ps2.

Even still, the system can push VERY good graphics with it's higher quality games. With PS3, Sony knows the problems with PS2, and there will be no problems with aliasing, mip maping or image quality.

I even heard that Sony was talking to Nvidia on the basis of next gen consoles.

yea i hope they learned. Problem is even if they fix everything it wont be perfect . Nothing is. I don't know how large the jump will be and i don't know how big the impact will be on the screen.

Look at fsaa. We all agree its great and should be a standard. IT impoves the image quality. Most people can't notice it. Yet it takes almost 40% hit sometime on current top of the line gpus. So much performance going to such a minor visual improvement. Same goes with ansio. See what i mean about dimishing returns.

 

[jvd]

Well I'll just jump in and say that there isn't anything on the PSX/N64 that touches Soul Calibur or Sonic Adventure - both first gen, DC titles.

only sonic adventure was a launch tittle in japan. which is when it launched

 

[Paul]

Bleh.. AA is becoming something that you can just turn on without a performance hit. Take a look at ATI Radeons.

 

[marconelly!]

I do know that ttt looked really bad though.

Really bad? Have you even seen it? It looks pretty much like Tekken 4 image quality wise, and the characters look even better in TTT (although the backgrounds look worse)

 

[Phil]

I hope no one is trying to compare just the GS with a graphics card, because you just can't. Systems should be looked at as a whole, not just partly. GS might be lacking features, but it clearly makes up for many things through the EE and the incredible drawing speed of the GS that has only been matched with recent graphicscard.

Honestly, you can rave on as much as you want how 'crap' GS is and how it compares to Voodoo 1/2, whatever - but that's bacically when I take out the games and actually compare them. Upon looking at games such as GT3, Jak & Daxter, MGS2 - am I disappointed? Hell no. Could a Voodoo2 with a CPU of that time do it? Hello no.

Oh and JVD, I really think you should play TTT again (if you ever did?). It's probably better than what you think. And with that image quality, I wouldn't know who would dare to say that a Voodoo card is much better..

 

[jvd]

Bleh.. AA is becoming something that you can just turn on without a performance hit. Take a look at ATI Radeons.

Yea... look again at the benchmarks. THe only reason you can turn it on as if nothing s because the current games aren't using anywhere near the radeons perfomance. Of course with doom3 we see that we can't even turn it on with the 9700pro. So where did your arguement just go paul. Fsaa will allways take a huge performance increase

 

[jvd]

I do know that ttt looked really bad though.

Really bad? Have you even seen it? It looks pretty much like Tekken 4 image quality wise, and the characters look even better in TTT (although the backgrounds look worse)

i owned it. or i might actually still own it. My ps2 and xbox is at home. I only have my cube with me at school (my gf love it)