What do you see the next gen consoles doing Graphicly?

[jvd]

I hope no one is trying to compare just the GS with a graphics card, because you just can't. Systems should be looked at as a whole, not just partly. GS might be lacking features, but it clearly makes up for many things through the EE and the incredible drawing speed of the GS that has only been matched with recent graphicscard.

Honestly, you can rave on as much as you want how 'crap' GS is and how it compares to Voodoo 1/2, whatever - but that's bacically when I take out the games and actually compare them. Upon looking at games such as GT3, Jak & Daxter, MGS2 - am I disappointed? Hell no. Could a Voodoo2 with a CPU of that time do it? Hello no.

Oh and JVD, I really think you should play TTT again (if you ever did?). It's probably better than what you think. And with that image quality, I wouldn't know who would dare to say that a Voodoo card is much better..

To bad I'm comparing feature sets to one another. Gs is basicly the graphics card of the ps2 and it was less than the graphics cards in the pc at the same time. Now its main cpu which is basicly what is doing most of the effects was years beyond the computer chips.

 

[Paul]

"Yea... look again at the benchmarks. THe only reason you can turn it on as if nothing s because the current games aren't using anywhere near the radeons perfomance. Of course with doom3 we see that we can't even turn it on with the 9700pro. So where did your arguement just go paul. Fsaa will allways take a huge performance increase"

Remember my friend that runs doom 3 alpha at over 70fps? He has FSAA on...

So where did YOUR argument go? In the trash, like everything else you say.

You can leave on 4x AA in any pc game with little performance hit.

 

[Paul]

I should add, with a 9700PRO and above you can.

 

[jvd]

"Yea... look again at the benchmarks. THe only reason you can turn it on as if nothing s because the current games aren't using anywhere near the radeons perfomance. Of course with doom3 we see that we can't even turn it on with the 9700pro. So where did your arguement just go paul. Fsaa will allways take a huge performance increase"

Remember my friend that runs doom 3 alpha at over 70fps? He has FSAA on...

So where did YOUR argument go? In the trash, like everything else you say.

You can leave on 4x AA in any pc game with little performance hit.

Lets see proof, I'm funning a 2600 athlon xp , 1 gig of ram and a radeon 9700pro. at 1600x1200 i can't put fsaa on. Lets see proof ....

 

[Paul]

"Lets see proof, I'm funning a 2600 athlon xp , 1 gig of ram and a radeon 9700pro. at 1600x1200 i can't put fsaa on. Lets see proof ...."

Too bad your system is garbage compared to my friends. Second, who says we're putting it on 1600X1200?

we run it on 1024X768.

 

[jvd]

http://www.beyond3d.com/reviews/ati/r350/index.php?p=19

here you go on current games with a top of the line cpu we already see up to a 50% decrease in performance.

 

[jvd]

http://www.beyond3d.com/reviews/ati/r350/index.php?p=19

here is up to a 15% decrease with ansio on .

this is the 9800pro.

On old games.

I showed u proof. Now show me your proof.

 

[jvd]

"Lets see proof, I'm funning a 2600 athlon xp , 1 gig of ram and a radeon 9700pro. at 1600x1200 i can't put fsaa on. Lets see proof ...."

Too bad your system is garbage compared to my friends. Second, who says we're putting it on 1600X1200?

we run it on 1024X768.

fine lets see it at 1024x 768 with 4xfsaa , 2xfsaa and then none .. then we will figure out the diffrence. I might very well be wrong. Of course I know my system wont run it with fsaa at that speed. Esp not the beta

 

[Paul]

Im seeing a 4% decrease from 4X fsaa at 1024X768 which is the resolution most people runs game at.

Huge hit? Hell no.

The only time it hits a 49% decrease is when you turn on 6X AA which I wasn't talking about, not to mention it's at a 1600X1200 res. Im talking about 4X.

 

[jvd]

Im seeing a 4% decrease from 4X fsaa at 1024X768 which is the resolution most people runs game at.

Huge hit? Hell no.

The only time it hits a 49% decrease is when you turn on 6X AA which I wasn't talking about, not to mention it's at a 1600X1200 res. Im talking about 4X.

I made it quite clear from the begning that I'm talking about 1600x1200 res. and i've said up to . It certianly goes up to 49% increase in games. Most of these games are old now though. 2002 and before games.

 

[Paul]

"ne lets see it at 1024x 768 with 4xfsaa , 2xfsaa and then none .. then we will figure out the diffrence. I might very well be wrong. Of course I know my system wont run it with fsaa at that speed. Esp not the beta"

We have tweaked the Alpha version for Radeon cards, basicly the alpha is running off of Nvidida extensions not ATI.

When the tweak was applied, we saw an ENOURMOUS increase in FPS. All's I know is that he keeps the Radeon control panel settings max at all times, and we hit 70fps, sometimes dipping to 60 and sometimes going up to 80 and beyond.

 

[Paul]

" made it quite clear from the begning that I'm talking about 1600x1200 res."

which isn't fair concidering your average person doesn't run it that high, not to mention FSAA on a console is different, you aren't talking about even 1024X768 resoutions.

 

[Paul]

Oh and it hits 49% when talking about 6X aa, which NOONE was talking about, I was talking 4X the whole time.

 

[jvd]

"ne lets see it at 1024x 768 with 4xfsaa , 2xfsaa and then none .. then we will figure out the diffrence. I might very well be wrong. Of course I know my system wont run it with fsaa at that speed. Esp not the beta"

We have tweaked the Alpha version for Radeon cards, basicly the alpha is running off of Nvidida extensions not ATI.

When the tweak was applied, we saw an ENOURMOUS increase in FPS. All's I know is that he keeps the Radeon control panel settings max at all times, and we hit 70fps, sometimes dipping to 60 and sometimes going up to 80 and beyond.

you tweaked it ? you mean your running on the r200 path ? Try running the arb2 path which is what the radeon 9700 pro and above is suposed to run it at. That is the max quality coming out of the engine.

To take a pic , just hook up a second monitor and put your controll panel there with the settings your using . and you can use fraps to see what frames you are getting.

 

[Paul]

Open up your doomconfig with word, and find this.

seta r_useStandardGL "0"
seta r_useParhelia "0"
seta r_useNV20 "1"
seta r_useNV30 "0"
seta r_useGL2 "0"
seta r_lightScale_ "2"

Set nv20 to 0 from "1"

Then set usestandardGL to 1 from "0"

And no, I already told you it's my FRIEND who has this awesome computer. No way I can go over now, and quite frankly if you don't belive me I could care less.

 

[marconelly!]

Gs is basicly the graphics card of the ps2 and it was less than the graphics cards in the pc at the same time.

GS is only the rasterizing part of the PS2 hardware. T&L is done in the VU processors. Together, they basically work as one thing, just as vertex shaders work with the rasterizer on the GF cards. When you say GS was less than cards on the PC, that may be true for the supported rasterizing functions, but certainly not for the speed. That speed actually allows GS to simulate some effects that are not supported natively, rendering them in several passes.

 

[zidane1strife]

Remember the system may be coming out in 2005 but 99% of will be based on ideas and techs around now and next year.

We don't know what the R&D team might have accomplished, they might have even discovered revolutionary means of rendering, AA, etc... All we know is what the teams at the different companies are aiming for... and the ones with the highest ambition(and likely budget, and man power/resources..) are the R&D teams behind the ps3.

 

[jvd]

Oh and it hits 49% when talking about 6X aa, which NOONE was talking about, I was talking 4X the whole time.

http://www.beyond3d.com/reviews/ati/radeon9700pro/index.php?page=page14.inc

well on the 9700pro the increase is about the same. Once again these games do not compare to doom3

 

[jvd]

Open up your doomconfig with word, and find this.

seta r_useStandardGL "0"
seta r_useParhelia "0"
seta r_useNV20 "1"
seta r_useNV30 "0"
seta r_useGL2 "0"
seta r_lightScale_ "2"

Set nv20 to 0 from "1"

Then set usestandardGL to 1 from "0"

And no, I already told you it's my FRIEND who has this awesome computer. No way I can go over now, and quite frankly if you don't belive me I could care less.

yes you are not including the r200 patch in there. Its be stated that the 9700 runs doom 3 with the arb2 path. I have no clue what the standardgl path is. You may be rendering it using the path for the geforce and geforce 2 cards for all i know.

 

[jvd]

Gs is basicly the graphics card of the ps2 and it was less than the graphics cards in the pc at the same time.

GS is only the rasterizing part of the PS2 hardware. T&L is done in the VU processors. Together, they basically work as one thing, just as vertex shaders work with the rasterizer on the GF cards. When you say GS was less than cards on the PC, that may be true for the supported rasterizing functions, but certainly not for the speed. That speed actually allows GS to simulate some effects that are not supported natively, rendering them in several passes.

whats the speed on the gs 200mhz ? how many pipe lines did it have ? Yes it can move lots of polygons . And its polygon pushing takes hits when you factor in all the other things it can't support natively and have to be done in several passes.