Well, that about wraps it up for blu-ray.

[mckmas8808]

That's what all this is about? MS dislikes Java?
So MS and Intel are going to back a clearly inferior format, slow if not completely stall the transition to High Def DVD, confuse the market, etc, etc, etc!?!?
Is Java really that big a threat to MS?

Wow I just so. It is kind of a surprise to me though. I mean does MS have to dominate everything.

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

Sony are supporting Blu-ray, and for Microsoft, Sony is "the enemy". Sony are leveraging one part of their company (hardware players, PS3, etc) in order to support their Blu-ray format. Why is anyone surprised that Microsoft and Intel are doing the same to support HD-DVD, for their own benefit and to the detriment of Sony?

It's not like the consumers will get hurt, because the majority will not jump from DVD (for movies) until one format or the other has become dominant. For consoles, the format is irrelevant as console games are never cross platform anyway.

 

[c0_re]

/\ Exaclty, Microsoft is not the only company to leverage their industry power Sony does it all the time, they have just been loosing out BIG to the competition over the last fiew years as far as home electronics go. Yes they still make pretty nice super high end TV's $$$ but their stereo's and other theatre components are hooo hum compared to Onkyo and Harmon Kardon ect.

 

[Carl B]

I believe that since blu-ray enjoys the majority of Hollywood support at this time, that's more an indicator of momentum than Intel and MS getting behind a competing format; certainly I think this brings HD-DVD back from the brink, but content will be the primary driver.

For Intel, what else could it be but part of their 'ViiV' push? For Microsoft, well that's already been covered.

And Dave, seriously - trolling your own forums.

Anyway so here's a counter article - actually an interview - by an individual in the media manufacturing industry... and his firm has chosen blu-ray.

Link

 

[Shifty Geezer]

If Sony are the enemy why are MS letting them use MS OS's on Sony's PCs, and letting them use MS codecs on BluRay? That's like arming your opposition! Business has no enemies. MS screwed over IBM bigtime, and now IBM are supplying MS with processors for their console. There are no grudges or past histories in business; only decisions made in the now with a view on the future, and decisions that might changed.

 

[London Geezer]

/\ Exaclty, Microsoft is not the only company to leverage their industry power Sony does it all the time, they have just been loosing out BIG to the competition over the last fiew years as far as home electronics go. Yes they still make pretty nice super high end TV's $$$ but their stereo's and other theatre components are hooo hum compared to Onkyo and Harmon Kardon ect.

Even then, their TV business is hardly what it used to be. They've had it easy for years with very overpriced electronics, however with time other companies started pushing better hardware for much more competitive prices, and Sony shouldn't have expected to be kept afloat just on "it's a Sony" ideals. I'm quite a Sony fan myself, but it's undeniable that they absolutely need to get their act together and quickly.
I would NEVER buy a Sony TV because for the price i could get MUCH better sets. Not sure about their hi-fi systems, since my one is working great (and it's a Sony, old but good DD/DTS system) and i haven't really been keeping up with the latest news.
I have an HD5 and the novelty of how small and sexy it is wore off a long time ago. Great MP3 player, sounds great, easy to use, but it does feel Sony are kinda losing their touch.

Fewer and fewer people are prepared to spend more just because "it's a Sony", considering they're not buying the best hardware to begin with.

And they need to be very very careful with where they put their trust. Basing their entire business on the success of PS3 and Bluray is a VERY risky choice.

And knowing me, if i'm saying this, there must be some truth to it.

Having said that, they'll be just fine, it's not like they risk to go bankrupt or anything.

 

[mckmas8808]

BIZ: What are the likely Blu-ray player speeds at launch, knowing that movie playback is 1.5x of "reference velocity"? What speed would a 2x Blu-ray
drive transfer data at? 72Mbs or 108Mbs?

PS: 108 Mbs.

I didn't know this. People here have said that a 2X drive would be less than 108Mbs I thought.

 

[MoeStooge]

the BDR specs call for a JVM to be present in order to play the interactive content. MS hates Java.

Actually, I was under the impression that the specs called for a virtual machine and not specifically Java.


I used to think that regardless of what format won the war, the consumer would lose due to the crappy DRM implementations that are showing up in the new formats. Now that China is supporting HD-DVD there is hope. We can always trust Chinese manufacturers to leave backdoor hacks in

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

If Sony are the enemy why are MS letting them use MS OS's on Sony's PCs, and letting them use MS codecs on BluRay? That's like arming your opposition! Business has no enemies. MS screwed over IBM bigtime, and now IBM are supplying MS with processors for their console. There are no grudges or past histories in business; only decisions made in the now with a view on the future, and decisions that might changed.

You don't think MS is giving their tech to Sony out of the goodness of their hearts?

Sony are no doubt paying for the use of MS tech. If Blu-ray becomes dominant, then Microsoft will have to pay Sony to use Blu-ray tech. It's all about owning the dominant tech, so that anyone wishing to participate in your monopoly has to give you a constant flow of money. MS has always done "embrace and extend" along with leveraging their products against each other to develop a dominant market position, which they can then use in turn to leverage their new products.

That's why both Sony and Microsoft are looking to push their own tech to dominate the market. If your tech dominates, everyone has to pay you, and that's where the real money lies.

 

[c0_re]

Again just like VHS Vs Beta whatever format the porn industry supports will win the battle period.

 

[wco81]

It is rather interesting that intel is backing HD-DVD while apple is backing blueray. I wonder if intel will be adding in any kind of bios support for blueray drives in the new intel based macs. (Assuming they are doing anything more than just supplying the CPU).

Nite_Hawk

Intel recently announced some consumer brand called Viiv.

http://www.anandtech.com/tradeshows/showdoc.aspx?i=2509

Didn't read whether Intel would manufacture and market these directly to consumers or offer it to their OEMs. It could be that Apple, Dell, HP, etc. will take Viiv motherboards and make modifications or ship them with their own enclosures.

On the Windows side, Viiv appears to require Windows Media Center Editions so if MS is going to only support HD-DVD, that makes Intel's support automatic.

With PVP and other security measures, Blu-Ray support may involve more than just drivers.

I'm sure if Apple, Dell and HP go forward with Blu-Ray support (another area where Blu-Ray will be better than HD-DVD for consumers will surely be in recording), they will develop or license the additional software necessary to enable not just playback but recording and video editing. You think Sony will figure out a way to support Blu-Ray on their VAIO PCs using Intel Viiv hardware and Vista?

Anyways, this announcement by MS and Intel was badly needed. Toshiba's hardware intro plans have been pushed back recently and all the HD-DVD titles announced earlier this year have also been put on hold. But their support is nowhere near as meaningful as the announcements by Disney and Fox to support Blu-Ray because MS and Intel doesn't have content.

 

[wco81]

Actually, I was under the impression that the specs called for a virtual machine and not specifically Java.


I used to think that regardless of what format won the war, the consumer would lose due to the crappy DRM implementations that are showing up in the new formats. Now that China is supporting HD-DVD there is hope. We can always trust Chinese manufacturers to leave backdoor hacks in

There are two different components. One is part of the copy-protection scheme which requires a virtual machine. Then some programs could be distributed via the movie discs and those could be loaded into the VM to do things like key revocation and renewal. And the conspiracy theorists believe that studios could distribute code to disable certain players or whole models of players if those models are hacked. It's not clear that the code would have to be Java or that the VM is a JVM.

The Java component is for the interactive layer. Disney (and Fox IIRC) cited Blu-Ray's better interactive capabilities. HD-DVD will use a system called IHD, which was developed by Microsoft.

So MS has more things to like about HD-DVD and dislike about Blu-Ray. Apart from the fact that Blu-Ray is a key strategic component in one of Sony's key strategic product, the PS3.

MS has been professing neutrality all this time but nobody who paid attention to these details ever bought it.

That is why it was always assumed that if MS was going to put a next-gen optical disc drive in the X360, it would be HD-DVD, not Blu-Ray.

BTW, I think everyone here agrees that Microsoft's support would mean a hell of a lot more if they included HD-DVD in the X360 NOW rather than promise HD-DVD support in Vista.

 

[Platon]

I don't see MS/Intel supporting HD-DVD leading to the death of BlueRay, actually I don't think it will affect it at all. If most people want BR it will win, it isn't MS/Intel that are the biggest enemies of BR, it is its name...

 

[hugo]

The person who thinks that HD-DVD has won the wars is living in his dreams.Blueray's camp consists of the largest AV equipment manufacturers in the world.Even if it doesn't make it into your computer,you'll still have plenty of BD standalone players out in the market.It'll defnitely dominate the consumer electronics scene.

No one wants MS to dominate actually.If this manages to get their hands into this I am rest assured they'll implement lots of stupid stuffs such as DRM and software level anti counterfeit stuffs that could make your life harder.

One question.WM or MP3/OggVorbis?

 

[London Geezer]

Again just like VHS Vs Beta whatever format the porn industry supports will win the battle period.

People keep saying that but you're forgetting one thing: now we have the internet.
No computer literate has paid for porn ever since we got broadband and eMule or such programs.

 

[valioso]

People keep saying that but you're forgetting one thing: now we have the internet.
No computer literate has paid for porn ever since we got broadband and eMule or such programs.

In the US alone is a 12 billion dollar industry. I don't think that they should be understimated.

 

[Acert93]

This format war is stupid. I remember DVD languishing around for a looooong time, and because of it we had to wait to get quality players. Obviously this whole thing started with big players wanting more control and royalties and now EVERYONE wants a cut of the action.

Really, this is all dissappointing. A nice open standard that meet all the needs (size, speed, production, etc) should be introduced when the tech is there and the market is ready and they should all go forward together. All these power plays, from day 1, are dumb.

Oh well, the entire idea is based on re-issueing movies and thus more money. I have been pretty happy with my DVD movies on HDTVs. Not as good as HD media, but enjoyable enough for me on a large widescreen sitting back on a couch.

I guess I will be getting more discount DVDs in the future because of this

 

[mckmas8808]

Oh well, the entire idea is based on re-issueing movies and thus more money. I have been pretty happy with my DVD movies on HDTVs. Not as good as HD media, but enjoyable enough for me on a large widescreen sitting back on a couch.

I guess I will be getting more discount DVDs in the future because of this

And unlike you I will be getting over-priced HD movies because of this. After I purchase the PS3 all new purchases of movies will be on the Blu-ray media.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Ya, well they gotta keep the cyle going eh!

If they wanted to they could fit HD quality movies on regular DVD's, just use better encoding technology, but where's the money in that??

I agree it's way to early, why not wait a couple years and go with something that's a true step up, I wouldn't mind it if they came up with something alot more durable than optical discs for the next gen format.

 

[zifnab]

And unlike you I will be getting over-priced HD movies because of this. After I purchase the PS3 all new purchases of movies will be on the Blu-ray media.

Unless it's only released on HD-DVD ;-)