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UC4: Best looking gameplay? *SPOILS*
- Thread starter RenegadeRocks
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New post with lots of new stuff, I've found the limit of their screen space subsurface and why it looks like it's completely off in some screens.
To start, SSSS works in both direct and indirect light in environments in the game and applied in all visible skin
Light transport in both his hair and little beard strands along with SSSS in indirectly lit part of the face
And now the limit, it seems like their real time GI solution doesn't have SSSS from the bounced light, example (direct light -> SSSS - Indirect light -> no SSSS)
No SSSS in bounced light
Full body SSSS from direct light
And as a bonus, playing around with real-time GI with photomode (by enabling and disabling characters on screen): http://webm.land/media/wdMm.webm
To start, SSSS works in both direct and indirect light in environments in the game and applied in all visible skin
Light transport in both his hair and little beard strands along with SSSS in indirectly lit part of the face
And now the limit, it seems like their real time GI solution doesn't have SSSS from the bounced light, example (direct light -> SSSS - Indirect light -> no SSSS)
No SSSS in bounced light
Full body SSSS from direct light
And as a bonus, playing around with real-time GI with photomode (by enabling and disabling characters on screen): http://webm.land/media/wdMm.webm
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Small update on the AA, it seems like Doom is using something very similar to U4. And i did a comparison between several AA types offered and TSSAA is the most optimized perf wise, offering better perf than even the rather simple SMAA/FXAA options, only beaten by no AA at all:
SMAA: https://abload.de/img/379720_20160625112557pbu3a.png
SMAA1Tx: https://abload.de/img/379720_20160625112624d2u6e.png
TSSAA: https://abload.de/img/379720_20160625112611vxusa.png
No AA: https://abload.de/img/379720_201606251126546oue1.png
I'd expect similar results in Uncharted 4 given how similar their AA looks to be. Hoping more games jump in on the TSSAA hype train (we know GoW did and potentially Horizon: ZD as well).
SMAA: https://abload.de/img/379720_20160625112557pbu3a.png
SMAA1Tx: https://abload.de/img/379720_20160625112624d2u6e.png
TSSAA: https://abload.de/img/379720_20160625112611vxusa.png
No AA: https://abload.de/img/379720_201606251126546oue1.png
I'd expect similar results in Uncharted 4 given how similar their AA looks to be. Hoping more games jump in on the TSSAA hype train (we know GoW did and potentially Horizon: ZD as well).
Those SMAA settings are a joke. Pretty much no difference with no AA. Should be much stronger. Not a valid comparison with TSSAA here.
So lately I've discovered the Photomode in UC4 sharpens up the image slightly if you leave it still for a couple of seconds despite having the Sharpness value at 0. The image doesn't sharpen up if panning around tho. Is the TSSAA employed here that's causing the phenomenon or something else? Is that something similar to what DriveClub's photomode is doing?
Interiors are amazing, also found an area with heavy ssr usage
Uncharted 4
Uncharted 4
Uncharted 4
Uncharted 4
Uncharted 4
Uncharted 4
Uncharted 4
Uncharted 4Yeah the game still looks phenomenon, the detail level is astounding.
VFX_Veteran
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Clukos,
I'm a little troubled by the way you use general 3d terms when praising this game's graphics.
For example,
SSR is usually assumed to mean dynamic reflections computed in screen-space. Not cube map environment mapping (reflections of static objects) -- which is very old tech.
You also use terms like "light transport in the hair and skin" when the game isn't actually calculating true light transport but using a hack (that is often inaccurate and fails under different conditions). The use of "indirect sss" is also very misleading. The game doesn't even calculate dynamic GI (i.e. for example indirect lighting due to continuous recomputing any light source based on time of day) but yet you still talk as if it does.
It almost seems like you are praising the game's graphics based on tech instead of "art" -- which is clearly misleading IMO.
I'm a little troubled by the way you use general 3d terms when praising this game's graphics.
For example,
SSR is usually assumed to mean dynamic reflections computed in screen-space. Not cube map environment mapping (reflections of static objects) -- which is very old tech.
You also use terms like "light transport in the hair and skin" when the game isn't actually calculating true light transport but using a hack (that is often inaccurate and fails under different conditions). The use of "indirect sss" is also very misleading. The game doesn't even calculate dynamic GI (i.e. for example indirect lighting due to continuous recomputing any light source based on time of day) but yet you still talk as if it does.
It almost seems like you are praising the game's graphics based on tech instead of "art" -- which is clearly misleading IMO.
These are not cubemap reflections. You have the game, go try it.
Welcome to video games.
These are not cubemap reflections. You have the game, go try it.
Welcome to video games.
Like every videogames... But it is a Naughty Dog games it is bad tech. They can't use tech if they are too modern. Naughty Dog programmer don't know what they do... They just relies on artist... copyright VFX_veteran on GAF and now on B3D...
You can replace the Naughty Dog by any Sony first party studio... Guerrilla Games, Sony Bend, Sony Santa Monica and others...
Games are blending between tech and art... And what ND and many other studio first or 3rd party do well it is blend good technology and good art...
A game like Bloodborne don't use all modern 3d technology and relie mostly on art for example...
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VFX_Veteran
Regular
These are not cubemap reflections. You have the game, go try it.
What I'm saying is how do you know they are dynamic SSR and not a pre-bake SSR pass with a texture blended with the spec texture based on angle of the camera? IIRC, there is nothing dynamically reflecting in that scene to tell whether they are computed in realtime or not. I believe static SSR would be just as cheap to compute as environment mapped reflections IMO in this regard. Why would you ever want to re-render the entire scene every frame if the geometry never moves and the lighting is static?
I, personally, would consider the term SSR to be defined as dynamically computed reflections in screen-space every frame (or even every few frames) since that's when most game devs talk about implementing them.
In short, you speak as if it's just as costly as some games' dynamic SSR implementation of moving objects (i.e. DOOM or QB for example). All I see are screenshots with sections pointed out by you and graphics "speak" that the game isn't really doing (i.e. light transport for SSS as an example). I see nothing in this game that is technical wizardry that only ND devs can do outside of other games that have been released. Yet, you, Chris1515 and ultragpu continue to bump this thread with this stuff.
The game is a beautfiul piece of artistic mastery coupled with very knowledge devs that know the limits of the console hardware and can hand-pick when/where to use the current features that are out in most games today. This makes UC4 a artistic masterpiece IMO -- not the tech masterpiece you are trying to place importance on.
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VFX_Veteran
Regular
Does ND even modern tech? /s
I just realized Neo is gonna bring even more doubts isn't it?
Yea, we'll see comments like Sony games rivaling/beating modern animated movies for sure this time.
You are the one that is trying to place anything on what I'm saying. Or anybody else, I've always been saying that it's art + tech used wisely from the beginning. But of course, you have to put your spin on it and try to degrade either the comments, the images or the game itself. If this thread bothers you so much, you are free to leave you know.
Wish I could live in your reality where every game looks like this
https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7660/27734070070_c65ea4f16d_o.png
https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7300/27936329901_b5a560055b_o.png
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VFX_Veteran
Regular
I tried to leave. But every other day, I'm seeing a new comment on this thread and go there only to see you guys still marveling over the game over a month later (as if there aren't any other games to play).
I get it. You are infatuated with UC4. And that's OK in my book..I guess.
I tried to leave. But every other day, I'm seeing a new comment on this thread and go there only to see you guys still marveling over the game over a month later (as if there aren't any other games to play).
The game just got patched and they removed the moblur, i gave it a spin and got a few images as i was trying to get the platinum, i'm terribly sorry for this inconvenience... The game might be one month old, but it still looks amazing. I also played Doom in its entirety and I think that looks amazing too. Technically, both are great and they beat each other in different areas, they also share quite a lot, what's more to say? This thread is about U4, if you don't care about it, don't post. Who cares if I, chris or ultragpu like the game? Spend your time doing the things you want to do, even if that is to troll Sony related threads because you are still butthurt about Neogaf mods banning you. Anyway, some webms from U4:
Very nice volumetric lighting/shadows, even if it is a 'hack': http://webm.land/media/oknp.webm
Really subtle but detailed shading on the wet rocks here in the "marooned" level: http://webm.land/media/azTB.webm
Zoomed in: http://webm.land/media/c08g.webm
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Yea, we'll see comments like Sony games rivaling/beating modern
animated movies for sure this time.
Your opinion means nothing imo
... You ship no games. I prefer hear what my friend working since 15 years in the game industry as an artist thinks about Naughty Dog and Guerrilla Games and in his and co worker opinion are the best technical AAA first partygames and among the best, better than his french team working on a PS4 games exclusive. What is the best PBS rendering pipeline in his opinion? No it is not any Sony first party studio or Epic or Crytek it is DICE...And your idea is a bit convoluted why they not use simple cubemap... But you are at ND knowing what they do. And SSR is not the ultimate rendering techniques it is on many titles even launch title like Killzone Show Fall or many other title on PC before the PS4 launch... Are they very innovative on PS4 probably no many modern realtime technics were invented on PC. Out of Media Molecule I don't think first party are innovative on this side... I know they were one of the first to use some form of physical based shading on PS3 and they have a very sophisticated blending animation system...
I respect Laa Yosh for example not a fanboy at all like you and visiting all game studio knows probably much more than you about realtime rendering. If Sebbbi or Graham or phil_ or MJP other devs or Andrew Lauritzen say it shit I understand they work on realime rendering for years... I understand why you were ban from GAF
The only things with sense you said they know the rendering envelope they have on PS4 and try to do the best they can to do the best looking game they can with the chosen art...
And you can search where I said it is comparable to any modern CG movies... It is simple it is not... Even an old CG movie like Toy Story is superior in poylcount, IQ, motion blur and DOF to all games...
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Or Scorpio games for that matter. Not modern CGI movies but some older ones for sure in certain areas, especially in real time cutscenes.Yea, we'll see comments like Sony games rivaling/beating modern animated movies for sure this time.
Oh and just for the record, UC4 is employing a laundry list of modern techs and each implemented with a decent quality all at 1080p and TSSAA to boot. Let's see,
* High res Volumetric lighting and shadowing
* godrays
* dynamic GI for some interiors (check torch)
* soft shadow casting light source (check torch again)
* SSS hack (very high quality in cutscene, lower in gameplay)
* SSR, cubemap
* real time muscle deformation
* high poly character models. 90k for 0 LOD
* shadowed POM, possible tessellation on the rocks in some caves
* Very dense geometry count for environment detail, one of the most densely packed foliage ever?
* a slew of fancy shaders amd particles for fire, water, mud and explosions
* Bokeh DOF, object MB, camera MB, Lens flare, HDR, Bloom
* abundance of destructible environment, all physics based.
* And of course I'm missing a few others
Yeah, all of them done at the same time with excellent IQ. If that's not technical enough or modern enough then I don't know what is.
On another hand, the new Zelda strikes to me as mostly art with piss poor techs.
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