UC4: Best looking gameplay? *SPOILS*
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rockaman
Regular
Well I don't think the comparison is that unfair. All these games have exceptional character models and face models, so I think it is a good comparison just for fun at the very least.I'm not offended, I'm just baffled that people are expecting the same asset quality from two games with such utterly different scopes.
And yeah, maybe I kinda know that NBA games and such are using scanning...
I'm pretty sure MLB The Show even looks better than NBA Live, but I don't have pictures (don't own the game).
In some ways NBA 2K also has lots of nice amazing shaders too, sometimes better than NBA Live, sometimes worse, and arguably better than shaders for stuff like sweat than Uncharted.
Fastest image I could find:
Some benefits to having a fixed lighting probably (I'm thinking there is weather in this game, different times of day also, not sure on weather).
Forget about just the faces for a second, there are other comparisons to be made, like the shadow resolution on the character models, is very high quality in MLB, whereas in Uncharted it's much lower. It's understandable though, but the comparison is still interesting.
Similarly one thing that would be fun to compare in NBA to Uncharted would be the player jerseys versus the clothing materials in Uncharted 4 characters. That is an easier direct comparison.
There is essentially only one player jersey type/material to create, with just different colours for each team. They might have slightly different fabrics, but I'm not sure if NBA Live or 2K simulates this or not.
It's always apples to oranges between a sports game and an action-adventure game, but there are cool comparisons to make I maintain
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rockaman
Regular
Read above. They do not build "hundreds" of character models. They add decorations and modify a base asset to create each e.g. tattoos and hair, and modify each face a bit. But for most of the elements of the character models like clothes and sweat shaders they do not create individual items.
There are other elements other than player faces that go into character design in sports games... If you're not a sports game fan I can understand how you can miss these though. There are clothing materials, cloth physics, court shaders, design of different stadiums, reflection maps, different weather/time of day to consider in MLB, material shaders that go into the character clothing, the ball in sport, or the equipment they wear/use, etc etc.
Also similar to Uncharted, how does sweat look, does it soak jerseys, etc. How do the cloth physics work (which are excellent in sports games). How does the cloth shade. What physical shaders to use on the baseball bats.
None of these are not unique per character in sports games, but they are unique per character in Uncharted in the case of clothes.
So many different things which are similar to creating cloth or other simulations in action games.
You don't need to make "100 different jerseys" for players in NBA, that's not how it works per character model.
And I think you're being a little too snide, and I frankly don't appreciate it, if you want to act like that, try not to respond next time. I tried to be friendly and reasonable with you, but I don't appreciate rudeness.
I am a character artist and I've been working at a reasonably well established CG animation studio for the past 12 years. I don't like to pull stuff like this in any arguments, but in this case I believe it's appropriate. I'm quite confident that I'm far more aware of the stuff involved in CG character creation than most people around B3D, and I don't like arguing about things that I'd consider to be common knowledge. If that makes me come across as arrogant, I'm sorry, that wasn't my intention. But I have little patience about such issues. The assets in these two games are not comparable at all, it's just plain stupid to bring them up in any debate.
Obviously the NBA faces won't look as good as the hero character in UC4. It's completely logical and comparing them is unfair and silly.
Obviously the NBA faces won't look as good as the hero character in UC4. It's completely logical and comparing them is unfair and silly.
rockaman
Regular
No, that's the problem, I agree that the faces in Uncharted 4 are better, and that NBA or sports games have many more faces to create, and each type of game offers different advantages, but the rudeness is very silly. And no, I still don't think the comparison is worthless, there's so many other interesting comparisons besides just faces.Do you even disagree with each other about anything?
There is a lot in character models in sports games in the history of videogames in which they are often the best looking character models in some ways, with very sharp details and other elements. Not always in faces, but in other ways as well.
Which is why I posted the MLB shots, they are very impressive in the way they are realistically shaded with excellent sharpness of the self-shadowing for example, and the texture/shader work of the clothes is also really impressive too. Something it has in common with Uncharted 4.
They can give off nice standards of what is possible on consoles in certain circumstances e.g. the excellent self-shadowing of MLB players in MLB The Show series.
Obviously we can account for those different circumstances, that's the whole fun in comparing them, I'm amazed you're just so fearful of the comparison or that the comparison shouldn't even be made at all
NBA 2K14 arguably had some of the best character model graphics in the time it launched alongisde PS4 and Xbone. Excellent shaders, excellent facial details too. It hasn't advanced much with next iterations, but it's still a great looking game, and is an example of how sports games do a good sell with their visuals as well.
Everyone is just getting panties in a bunch because we're in the Uncharted thread I swear
If these comparisons are not interesting, then I guess someone should post shots of ROTR then? Yes that will be much more fun and everyone will be much more reasonable
Now you're just being deliberately ignorant. Have I not made some reasonable suggestions that there are many other elements to be comparing? Or that I said "ignore the faces for a moment." You're simply too much in attack mode getting offended in the idea people will think "well the Uncharted 4 faces do look very excellent." I suggest taking a step back for a moment, not only because that idea needs to be "wrong" though.
There's other stuff that's interesting to compare between these games. Cloth shaders and textures? Cloth physics? Skin shaders? Self-shadowing systems? etc? Some of those there is an advantage to go to the sports games e.g. NBA Live/2K has much more physics in its clothing, on 10 players at the same time. Self-shadowing is also better in MLB compared to Uncharted 4 too. Some give advantages to Uncharted 4, like in the way you say, you can create individual faces for only 5+ characters, and not 100+. That is good input.
Beyond that though? You're being far too snide. I don't think you need to comment anymore then if you can't be positively contributing. You're too much in attack mode already, so I suggest you take a break before coming back to this thread.
Both action adventure games and sports games tend to have very quality character models in different ways. That is enough reason to make the comparison fun and interesting. If you can't find a way, with your 12 years of CG expertise, to contribute to that comparison, you don't need to post then. There are many others I have met on online forums with professional experience with studios like Crystal Dynamics and even Dreamworks as well, and I'm sorry to say but they did not treat my opinions or comparisons with so much contempt.
I suggest taking some observations in how @HTupolev has approached this conversation for an example of how to contribute positively to a conversation in which you have more technical knowledge of the subject than others. Similarly, I know if I did the same to people in subjects I have a lot more technical knowledge of others, I wouldn't be simply dismissing their ideas, because that doesn't achieve anything in the way of learning or teaching.
I also suggest inventing a new strategy to approach such discussions in the future. Your technical knowledge on the subject may be at a high level, but the professionalism you are displaying in your interaction so far with me is leaving much room for improvement, and I'm certain it is something you would not practice in a real-life conversation.
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So drake aint the mass murdering man of past games?
VFX_Veteran
Regular
At least you get some respect around here..
I get zilch despite the fact that I worked as a graphics programmer at studios like Disney/Dreamworks because evidently everything I mention is either a troll-statement or misinformation about 3D graphics.I think face scanning tech is interesting and just wanted to compare the textures and see who sports higher resolution ones. I picked Lebron because he's the star player in the game (luckily he's in the demo too) and his character model has a clear cut advantage over the rest of them. But even when compared to Hector Alcazar the Uncharted characters still looked better. I've always thought of sports games having much better character models than other games and this comparison just put it to the test. I did it for fun.
rockaman
Regular
Being professionally qualified for a certain task does not by default impart the communication skills required to share the information which you may or may not have readily available to share. You can be professionally trained in any domain and still happen to poorly communicate that expertise to others, and that could be due to a language barrier, but it can also simply be an attitudinal barrier.
It also does not exclude one from being partial, or make someone impartial, when discussing the related subject matter. Both the skills and communication ability would be advantageous on an internet forum, being that's what it is for: communication
Especially if one is professional qualified, that gives a lot less reason to be lazy or condescending when discussing the related subject matter. Such an attitude would only reflect poorly on that person, despite their professional qualifications. It would bring their judgment and communications abilities into question, even raise red flags about their ability to be impartial and make good decisions, and it's the type of thing I can't imagine would ever happen in a real-life scenario. Or if it did, to no good outcome
Attitude and language and patience and consideration for the thoughts of others go a long way in effective communication. Hopefully years of professional experiences in work places have taught you guys that. If that hasn't been learned, it might become a very difficult lesson later on in your life or career
It also does not exclude one from being partial, or make someone impartial, when discussing the related subject matter. Both the skills and communication ability would be advantageous on an internet forum, being that's what it is for: communication
Especially if one is professional qualified, that gives a lot less reason to be lazy or condescending when discussing the related subject matter. Such an attitude would only reflect poorly on that person, despite their professional qualifications. It would bring their judgment and communications abilities into question, even raise red flags about their ability to be impartial and make good decisions, and it's the type of thing I can't imagine would ever happen in a real-life scenario. Or if it did, to no good outcome
Attitude and language and patience and consideration for the thoughts of others go a long way in effective communication. Hopefully years of professional experiences in work places have taught you guys that. If that hasn't been learned, it might become a very difficult lesson later on in your life or career
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At least you get some respect around here..
But real-time 3d and offline rendering are quite different after you understand all 3d technique but have got not precise idea of the cost and limit on the hardware side...
And every people have bias... Saying UC4 has perfect rendering is ridiculous... But saying nothing is impressive before chapter 13 is too...
At least you get some respect around here..
But real-time 3d and offline rendering are quite different after you understand all 3d technique but have got not precise idea of the cost and limit on the hardware side...
And every people have bias... Saying UC4 is consistent during all game is ridiculous... But saying nothing is impressive before chapter 13 is too...
rockaman
Regular
I agree. It was just a fun comparison. I find the character models in both kinds games very nice for different reasons.
At least you get some respect around here..
Respect is earned, not given. Laa-Yosh is probably one of the very best posters on this forum and occupation has little to do with it (w/ respect), you could probably be regarded in a similar manner if your posts were more tailored towards conversation and less "I'm right because reasons, that is a fact!". I've agreed with many of your posts in the past, in which you were trying to discuss things and had valid arguments, so it's not about you personally, I just dislike the way you present things -most of the time- in a condescending way.
Billy Idol
Legend
Yeah, look at L-Ys post history! There are so many posts of his with actual information about the technology he uses in his profession, giving fascinating insights. He really takes time to go into detail and formulates posts that also non-professional can follow. Typically, he gives precise arguments why he likes something and why not. No wonder he is one of the most respected poster here! Hasn't much to do with the fact he works on CG, but what(!) he is posting here.
Just as an explanation for you:
Now look at your post history VX and compare...just as an example, this very thread, the last couple of pages:
You jump in, state that finally someone is telling the truth at B3D and it wasn't only you, the PS4 bias, the PS4 conspiracy, the PS4, the exclusives PS4, the PS4 free pass, the PS4, yadda yadda yadda (typically, a bunch of neogaf quotes are in, not this time), I know for a fact that UC4 looks worse no need to bring arguments, multiplats are always better, look at my 5k$ PC => I am a troll.
If you want respect, e.g. mine, than: get over neogaf, get over PS exclusives...and start Laa-Yoshian type posts, where you give us information and actually share your experience! It sounds super interesting what you are doing and imo you could be a great contributor to B3D, if you want to.
To troll or not to troll, that is the question. Decide
Just as an explanation for you:
Now look at your post history VX and compare...just as an example, this very thread, the last couple of pages:
You jump in, state that finally someone is telling the truth at B3D and it wasn't only you, the PS4 bias, the PS4 conspiracy, the PS4, the exclusives PS4, the PS4 free pass, the PS4, yadda yadda yadda (typically, a bunch of neogaf quotes are in, not this time), I know for a fact that UC4 looks worse no need to bring arguments, multiplats are always better, look at my 5k$ PC => I am a troll.
If you want respect, e.g. mine, than: get over neogaf, get over PS exclusives...and start Laa-Yoshian type posts, where you give us information and actually share your experience! It sounds super interesting what you are doing and imo you could be a great contributor to B3D, if you want to.
To troll or not to troll, that is the question. Decide
The refraction trick on the water splash seems to be some sort of SSR variant (flipped): http://webmshare.com/gPjaP
Will also start using this instead of gifs, easier for me to upload and less of a pain for the people loading the page.
Will also start using this instead of gifs, easier for me to upload and less of a pain for the people loading the page.
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