The Second Controversial Thread

[Druga Runda]

he he, every site has it's weak side... but just go to the FX5800 and the big ones

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=1779&p=19

NVIDIA's focus at this point is NV31 and NV34, after all, that's where the money is. The small percentage of the market that will go after the NV30 will not make or break NVIDIA, but should ATI compete like this in other market segments then there will be cause for worry. As we mentioned at the start of our GeForce FX Preview - "Kudos to ATI."

which is good in principle
http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NDIxLDY=

Overall, the GeForce FX seems to be a capable card, and is a step up from the GeForce 4, to which it is the successor. Should you buy one? If you have a GeForce 4 class card, and want to stay on top with the latest and greatest, then yes. However, if you are currently using a Radeon 9500/9700 level card, then there is no reason to spend another $400 to get a slight boost. If you use AA all the time, then you may actually decrease your performance depending on the game and resolution.

The Bottom Line: The GeForceFX 5800 Ultra is a very hot and noisy beast that may give you a bit of an edge over the current king of the hill, the ATI 9700 Pro in some applications. If you are an NVIDIA fanboy, this of course has your name all over it. At the current US$400.00 price point, the GFFX simply does not seem worth it to us. If NVIDIA can work some driver magic and pull an extra 20% increase in frame rate out of the bag like we have seen in the past, they had best start pulling. Either that or pull out the NV35 chipset, and quick.

and IIRC [h] were quite NV fanbios back than... still this is a fairly OK conclusion...
and than the best

http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20030127/geforce_fx-29.html

Conclusion

NVIDIA takes the crown! No question about it - the GeForceFX 5800 Ultra is faster than the competition from ATI's Radeon 9700 PRO in the majority of the benchmarks. However, its lead is only slight, especially compared to the distance that ATI put between its Radeon 9700 PRO and the Ti 4600. Still, when compared to its predecessor, the GeForce4 Ti, the FX represents a giant step forward.

that was the best one ever...



other than that from what I remember - [H] had at least one similar dis-honest moment in the "hyperthreading" intro article, which got them into Intel promo material, where they in all likelyhood overclocked the gfx card when they benched the HT enabled processor to get the scores...

as for Anad and their FX5900 ... didn't pay attention at the time so I have no real bad recollections from AT, the worst was the recent PM vs PIV - which clearly was not Intel biased, but more like grossly incompetent conclusion based on their own graphs about the "unsuitability of PM on the desktop" when it did as good or better than PIV in the majority of benchmarks, and in principle only in encoding was PIV markedly better (as usual)...

but yes, read more than one site and that is the solution, as for me apart from B3D I have found TR to be fair and square from the beginning, sometimes they make mistakes but they are ready to discuss them, and not purge the forums from dissenters like the two of the above "big" ones

 

[jb]

Pointless thread (however much I'd like it not to be ).

Rys,

feel free to complain or get anything else you need to say via my PM inbox

 

[digitalwanderer]

Ok, I guess I could bust some confidences and talk about all the sleezy stuff I hear goes on at HEXUS.....

















Sorry Rys, just wanted to make ya jump.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

WB Digi Boi!!

US

 

[Rys]

And to think I wished you happy birthday yesterday

Thinking back, the only time I personally have favoured an IHV is when I asked NVIDIA if I could use FX 5700 Ultra numbers (it was unlaunched) in a review of an R9600 SKU. I shouldn't have done so, in hindsight, since I pretty much played into NVIDIA's hands (which they knew).

That's what got me here to these forums, with Joe The Furious ripping me a new one

And our utterly stinking 'review' of the 5800 Ultra, which is pretty horrible. I only leave it activated since it pushes me never to make past mistakes. I didn't write it though (thank god ), before anyone beats on me.

No site is perfect, is what I guess I'm trying to say. We all strive to do our best, though.

 

[digitalwanderer]

Don't feel too badly Rys, at least you never posted up "leaked" slides from Brian B.

 

[nelg]

Rys,
Remember this.

 

[digitalwanderer]

Rys,
Remember this.

OMG, Rys used to sign his posts?!?!? :?

 

[Rys]

Rys,
Remember this.

That's a different Rys

You all suck

 

[martrox]

You all suck

Just remember that your standing on a planet that's evolving,
Revolving at nine hundred miles an hour.
It's orbiting at nineteen miles a second, so its reckoned,
a sun that is the source of all our power.
The sun and you and me and all the stars that we can see
are moving at a million miles a day.
In an outer spiral arm, at forty thousand miles an hour,
of a galaxy we call the milky way.

Our galaxy, itself, contains a hundred billion stars.
It's a hundred thousand light years side to side.
It bulges in the middle, sixteen thousand light years thick,
but out by us it's just three thousand light years wide.
We're thirty thousand light years from galactic central point.
We go round every two hundred million years.
And our galaxy is only one of millions of billions
in this amazing and expanding universe.

The universe itself keeps on expanding and expanding
in all of the directions it can whiz.
As fast as it can go, the speed of light you know,
twelve million miles a minute and that's the fastest speed there is.
So, remember when you're feeling very small and insecure,
how amazingly unlikely is your birth;
And pray that there's intelligent life out there in space
because there's buggeralls down here on earth.

You know why space is a vacuum?????.......

 

[Geo]

Don't feel too badly Rys, at least you never posted up "leaked" slides from Brian B.

OMG! How did I miss that one!? No wonder there's a restraining order! You're lucky they don't own your house.

 

[{Sniping}Waste]

The realy bad stuff happens out side of the US like China and Tiwan. Theres not many rule there and most of the Video cards and motherboard are made there.

Via in the past made board makers only have the OC features on boards with Via chipsets and if they didn't then they would not sell chipset to them.
From what I see now it Nvidia Doing the same thing with board makers. If you look now, Its only Nforce boards with the nice OC features and almost nothing for other chipsets.

Abit was the only one with nice OC features but the new boards with Via chipsets have less features now, now that they have boards with Nforce chipsets. The big thing in showing who has the best chipset is more about then board its on and how much the OC features it has.

You can have two boards, one with the best chipset but on a lowend board and one chipset that is not a good but on a high end board.
The the not so good chipset will win in most tests because of the board its on and the chipset makers know this.

 

[trinibwoy]

From what I see now it Nvidia Doing the same thing with board makers. If you look now, Its only Nforce boards with the nice OC features and almost nothing for other chipsets.

I don't agree. The reason Nvidia usurped Via as the overclocking and performance king with the Nforce series is due to superior memory controller performance and more robust overclocking features (PCI/AGP lock for example). With the current iteration, the Nforce4 is miles ahead of Via's solution in terms of built-in features so I don't think it is Nvidia's heavy hand controlling things here.

 

[Farid]

Two pages and still no traces of, serious, baseless, unfounded accusations against any websites? Interresting...

By the way, while we're at it, what's the point of this thread exactly?
Is accusing some Websites and their editors/ wners of "journalistic malpractice", without any factual evidences to back those allegations, of any utility?

It's not even controversial...

 

[{Sniping}Waste]

From what I see now it Nvidia Doing the same thing with board makers. If you look now, Its only Nforce boards with the nice OC features and almost nothing for other chipsets.

I don't agree. The reason Nvidia usurped Via as the overclocking and performance king with the Nforce series is due to superior memory controller performance and more robust overclocking features (PCI/AGP lock for example). With the current iteration, the Nforce4 is miles ahead of Via's solution in terms of built-in features so I don't think it is Nvidia's heavy hand controlling things here.

I don't agree with you on the preformance king thing for Nforce. I have out done Nforce chipsets with SIS chipset after volt modding SIS boards to mach the same voltage control as the boards with Nforce chipsets. The SIS chipsets starting from 746 and up are PCI/AGP locks and not dividers. The newer VIA K8T800 pro and up have working PCI/AGP locks to and overclock just a good a Nforce 3 and 4 do with the same support. The board makers support of the chipset is key and If you put Nforce, VIA, ULI, ATI, and SIS on the same support level, then you will see it will be in this order best to worst. SIS,ATI,VIA,NVIDIA, and ULI.

 

[Doomtrooper]

If you think the Tomshardware Reviewer comments a.k.a Borsti is not biased with comments like crowning a discontinued card 'the king' with no regard to image quality...ie. drivers that were shipped with the 5800 were only really exposed here: http://www.3dvelocity.com/reviews/gffx5800u/gffx.htm

BTW 3D velocity never got a NV40 card for review, the webmaster blamed his 5800 review with the 'burned bridges' at Nvidia. So you either tell the truth and buy the card yourself, or you lie through your teeth, misleading the public to get the hits, possibly future incentives and even hardware to keep.

 

[trinibwoy]

I don't agree with you on the preformance king thing for Nforce. I have out done Nforce chipsets with SIS chipset after volt modding SIS boards to mach the same voltage control as the boards with Nforce chipsets. The SIS chipsets starting from 746 and up are PCI/AGP locks and not dividers.

Very few people volt-mod anything. As far as out of the box stock and overclocked performance goes nothing could touch the Nforce2 for a long time.

The newer VIA K8T800 pro and up have working PCI/AGP locks to and overclock just a good a Nforce 3 and 4 do with the same support. The board makers support of the chipset is key and If you put Nforce, VIA, ULI, ATI, and SIS on the same support level, then you will see it will be in this order best to worst.

SIS,ATI,VIA,NVIDIA, and ULI.

I'm not sure what you're basing that assertion on but I just found a recent review of an ASUS K8T890 and ASUS Nforce4. The Nforce4 has better performance and features. Are you saying that top-tier motherboard manufacturer ASUS is putting Nforce4 chipsets on 'better' boards?

http://www.behardware.com/articles/558/page1.html

 

[Unit01]

[H], THG, anand to name a few.

 

[{Sniping}Waste]

Here you go Trinibwoy.
http://techreport.com/reviews/2005q1/gigabyte-ga-k8vt890-9/index.x?pg=1
Not to bad for a buget mobo and it out prefroms the DFI Nforce4 SLI in some areas.
The solteck is another buget mobo in the test to and it does very well too.
All the VIA K8T890 chipset board I have seen are not high end board. The Asus is the closes high end mobo but its still crippled and is lacking support that the Nforce4 chipset mobo have and its not a lack of the VIA chipset ether. The mobo makers just are not puting the higher end stuff on mobos that don't have a Nfroce4 chipset on the AMD side. You can see the same thing with Intel mobo and Intel chipsets too.

 

[panzeramd]

I'm not sure what you're basing that assertion on but I just found a recent review of an ASUS K8T890 and ASUS Nforce4. The Nforce4 has better performance and features. Are you saying that top-tier motherboard manufacturer ASUS is putting Nforce4 chipsets on 'better' boards?

http://www.behardware.com/articles/558/page1.html

Actually he is quite right, I do remember that some manufacturers use (d) more layers on their PCB's for their N-Force 3 (4) products than they used on ( or for ) their VIA boards. Six PCB layers ( for N-Force ) compared to 4 PCB layers ( VIA ), also i believe that they spend more on the components for better power regulation ( two phase\three phase and so on ).

Edit : Just to add they spend more of their resources on BIOS development for nvidia boards then they do on VIA boards, since people are more willing to spend more money on nvidia boards compard to VIA boards.


But back to the topic at hand. I do still see a heavy Nvidia bias on many sites ( won't mention names ), as such. In certain reviews the games that are benched favor Nvidia's cards a little to much, and they seem to run the games with out FSAA ( which favors Nvida ).

I read a review which had half-life 2 benchmarks between an 6800 ultra an x800 xt, which showed the ultra anywhere from five to ten frames a second a head of the x800XT and so the ultra was declared the winner, of course they didn't use any FSAA what so ever which would have shown Ati to be quite a bit faster.

To me there seems to be to much importance put on Doom 3 ( and the Doom 3 engine ) performance by both reviewers and forum goers, which seems wrong since Doom 3 is only one game and the engine will not be used as heavily by future games as the Quake 3 engine was, The most popular engine with developers is the Unreal engine is it not?. and with the half-life 2 and far cry engines out now the prospects of either one becoming more popular with developers ( over the Doom 3 engine ) is pretty good.