The PS3 browser and net capabilities : Is PS3 getting Android/WebKit support?

[jeff_rigby]

Hah, I'll tap dance all the way to work if they announce GoogleTV on PS3.

I heard Google is still working on GoogleTV for TV. It's not done yet. So they probably can't show anything beyond that basic concept.

I heard a demo crashed on one website in front of press. But done....no they are planning multiple upgrades but a release version is not far off. Google TV hardware will ship next month (Logitech) and I'm sure Sony will announce TVs shipping around the same date.

If Google TV was the reason for Other OS removal then I expect Google TV will be a click-able Icon on the XMB that will boot a modified Linux kernel that Android will run on. Android will use the webkit routines. This would solve multiple issues; upgrades, security, third-party applications; I.E. It would't require integration with the PS3 OS.

Webkit routines could be used by Google TV as above and the PS3 for applications and games. Sony retains control of the PS3. The PS3 is then a true dual use and two markets are created using one set of hardware.

As I mentioned before, ultraviolet requires changes to the PS3 OS and needs an integration for both media and applications. That alone would make upgrading Google TV difficult if run from the PS3 OS.

I do believe Sony wants some way to limit internet access so it has control of WebGL games. I expect Google TV to have accelerated graphics but not WebGl and the PS3 side to have WebGL and the ability to play webgames. Decisions we did not understand like not allowing OpenGL access to Linux, thought to be security issues, would make sense if Sony looking down the road saw WebGL and wanted that market supported only by Sony on the PS3 not Linux.

This speculation of mine would allow Sony to have their cake and eat it too. They can have Google TV support on the PS3 and leverage their control for profit (advertising, links to services, sell custom applications, etc) and have a PS3 XMB with custom applications to do the same there with more emphasis on multi-media and home media like pictures and home movies as well as social sites like Facebook. And of course a Game OS to provide games and WebGl games.

Three different business models in one set of hardware. It only does everything.

 

[jeff_rigby]

Hah, I'll tap dance all the way to work if they announce GoogleTV on PS3.

I heard Google is still working on GoogleTV for TV. It's not done yet. So they probably can't show anything beyond that basic concept.

RE: our on-going discussion

http://www.vg247.com/2010/10/11/lovefilm-coming-to-ps3-next-month/#more-122621

A video from the official PS3 YouTube channel has confirmed UK movie rental service LOVEFiLM is coming to PS3 as of next month.The service, which will be accessable via the XMB, will stream “thousands of movies” from the console instantly, with movies from big Hollywood studios to indie flicks and will have all genres covered.You’ll also be able to manage your Blu-ray and DVD rental list if you’re an existing customer. This video was pulled after the article above was released.

http://www.lovefilm.com/help/dyn_faqs.html?editorial_id=10496&faq_cat=

What are the minimum system requirements to watch a film online?

A compatible browser, with JavaScript and Flash enabled, included in the latest version of: Internet Explorer 6, 7 or 8, Mozilla Firefox, Google Chrome, Apple Safari, Opera

Flash version: 10.0.32 - you will be prompted by the Flash player to upgrade if you have an old version of Flash or do not have Flash installed.

So that indicates the PS3 webkit was to have Flash 10 by November so Google TV is not finished if coming to the PS3. Pulling the video might indicate they are behind as there is no official announcement just the Video. Or it might fuel speculation by people like me and Sony wants to control information released.

I believe Javascript is done but Flash would be another native language compiled WEBKIT tool and it's quite extensive.

 

[patsu]

You left out:

Operating system: Windows XP or Vista (32 or 64 bit), MAC OS 10.3+

Different platforms may have different rules.

If they rollout the service for iOS and other devices, they can change the specs. e.g., YouTube for iPhone does not require Flash. As long as the video backend stays the same, doing a UI client is considerably cheaper.

There are a few ways to do FaceBook API. If someone can leak how Sony did it in firmware 3.5, we'd have a better idea of their latest improvement in web tech.

 

[jeff_rigby]

You left out:



Different platforms may have different rules.

If they rollout the service for iOS and other devices, they can change the specs. e.g., YouTube for iPhone does not require Flash. As long as the video backend stays the same, doing a UI client is considerably cheaper.

There are a few ways to do FaceBook API. If someone can leak how Sony did it in firmware 3.5, we'd have a better idea of their latest improvement in web tech.

The iPhone web browser does not have a Flash plugin for DRM. To support other platforms and since Apple will not allow a Flash plugin on their iOS products, a different DRM was obtained.

http://www.worldtech24.com/business/lovefilm-netflix-europe-signs-deal-widevine-multi-platform-play

29 July 2010

Lovefilm, the Netflix-of-Europe, looks set to beef up its multi-platform play via a newly signed agreement with DRM and adaptive streaming technology provider Widevine.

The deal will see the US-based company become Lovefilm's "preferred provider of digital rights management and video optimisation solutions", enabling the video subscription service to continue to break out from its 'DVDs by post' legacy into the video-on-demand market, ensuring that its digital content is "playable on many new devices."

Ultraviolet was chosen to support DRM. This may have been a part of the above deal.

http://www.uvvu.com/press/UltraViolet_Brand_Launch_Release_07_20_2010_FINAL.PDF

DECE also announced the addition of LG Electronics, LOVEFiLM and Marvell Semiconductor, Inc. to the consortium. These companies join DECE’s already strong group which include world leaders across a wide range of industries.

This throws a different light on a possible delay. I've heard there are problems agreeing on a final "standard" for Ultraviolet. This is delaying Sony who can implement Ultraviolet almost immediately upon the acceptance of a "standard".

I expect the disagreements center on how much of HTML5, XML and javascript will be implemented to support applications. This will determine the minimum required for Ultraviolet Certification. Various hardware manufacturers will want less support so they don't have to provide more powerful and expensive hardware.

The PS3 firmware update for this month may be delayed if it was to contain a final version of Ultraviolet. The HULU and Netflix applications will probably reduce in size again with Ultraviolet in the PS3.

Edit: LoveFilm is using the widevine DRM and Netflix is using widevine DRM.

Apple will not allow Flash (Access) on their platform and will not support Ultraviolet. Widevine DRM can solve the Apple platform issues and can be used on all platforms that support ultraviolet.

So the conclusion is that Lovefilm, for Applications, will probably use a subset of HTML5 (H.264), Javascript and Wildvine DRM. The delay for the PS3 to support LoveFilm, if true, can still be ultraviolet standards finalization.

 

[NeoTechni]

Here's REALLY good news IF PS3 gets GoogleTV

http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/12/sony-opens-android-developer-site-for-google-tv-devices/

 

[patsu]

I kinda doubt it.

Here's CNET's Sony GoogleTV Launch live blog:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20019340-1.html

I'll be away.

EDIT: Looks like it ended. No PS3 announcements. ^_^
Qriocity is available on GoogleTV and settop boxes though.

 

[NeoTechni]

I saw. Disappointed.

Though from a business perspective it makes sense not to announce it YET, as it'd kill off sales for the hardware.

 

[patsu]

Sony's GoogleTV "inherits" fundamental UI issues:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/12/sonys-internet-tv-powered-by-google-tv-first-hands-on/

Something that could be a real issue for Google TV is the lack of UI consistency. You're dealing with your DVR's UI, the Google TV search and record experience, the Chrome browsing experience, and then whatever UI a particular media browsing app might have (all the ones we tried were vastly different from each other). You can also browse your recorded shows from the Google TV UI or your own DVR's UI, which among other overlapping functionality might prove confusing when it's not being convenient.

...

The Sony keyboard remote feels nice in the hand, but it's pretty unintuitive. Although both of your thumbs rest naturally on the controls up top, you're not supposed to use them at the same time -- you can either arrow around the UI with the left thumb or control the mouse with the finicky optical pad under your right. The two things are totally separate, so you're using the arrows and you accidentally click the right button, you end up selecting whatever's under the mouse cursor and going off in a totally different direction. It's weird, especially since it's supposed to feel like a PS3 controller -- a controller that generally uses both thumb controls together very effectively.

Oh, and there are a million tiny buttons for everything, not all of which make a ton of sense in every configuration, and some of which are just totally mysterious -- there's no way you're going to get what the star and Fn buttons do on the first go.

Still the same old Sony. That's too bad.

If they are going to have a PS3 version, they should take the opportunity to revamp the experience.

 

[Rolf N]

there's no way you're going to get what the star and Fn buttons do on the first go.

Me, me!
Stars are usually for bookmarks (or tagging something as super awesome, which is almost the same thing anyway). The bookmark menu icon in Chromium is a star, too.

Fn, especially when it's printed in blue, is a shift key to change the meaning of other keys. Notebooks taught me that.

 

[jeff_rigby]

Here's REALLY good news IF PS3 gets GoogleTV

In your link was a reference to LoveFilm http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/13/ps3-and-lovefilm-make-it-official-streaming-movies-to-consoles/

Really good explanation of LoveFilm with a video and if you read the Widevine DRM site the player is using Widevine, a full feature solution for streaming video.

http://www.prnewswire.co.uk/cgi/news/release?id=48403
Widevine Technologies, Inc. launches the world's first Cross platform streaming media security product - Widevine Cypher

http://www.widevine.com/

These companies are all using the Widevine cross platform player app.

AT&T
Blockbuster
Netflix
NBC.com
Samsung
Best Buy
Deutsche Telekom
DISH Network
LOVEFiLM
VUDU

Current CE hardware that supports Widevine
Internet-Enabled Consumer Devices

EchoStar Sling Loaded DVRs and Sling Monitor
Haier Blu-ray player
LG Blu-ray players, TVs and home theaters
Memorex Blu-ray players
Nintendo Wii
Oppo Blu-ray players
Philips Blu-ray players
Samsung Blu-ray players, home theaters, LCD TVs, LED TVs and plasma TVs
Sharp Blu-ray players
Toshiba Blu-ray player
Vizio Blu-ray players
Yamaha Blu-ray players
PC and Mac OSs

Apple Mac platforms
Microsoft Windows platforms
Mobile Internet Devices (MIDs)

Android platforms
Apple iPhone, iPod touch and iPad
Archos platforms
Microsoft Windows platforms
Set Top Boxes

ADB
Amino
Cisco
Entone
Foxconn
Hwacom
Motorola
Pace
Thomson
UTStarcom
ZyXEL
ZTE

Notice no Xbox or PS3. I suspect the list is outdated as the PS3 NOW supports Netflix and next month LoveFilm. I believe the Xbox with HTML5 support should be on the list also.

Cross platform language = Javascript possibly Java on some platforms and in another article Widevine supports Ultraviolet DRM. If Java was a requirement for Widevine support the PS3 would have had it since day one.

Read the Widevine.com link and watch the Lovefilm video. There is more information about Netflix functionality than we have gotten from Netflix or Sony.

Widevine's approach to consumer electronics devices is through the inclusion of its software stack, or code, on a variety of CE device chips.

"Our software stack gets installed on to the chip or into native hardware/software on the device," said Burrows, "whether it be an FPGA or ASIC, and we provide optimization and DRM contained in same client stack. We continue to work with individual chipset manufacturers, such as TI for its DSPs, System on a Chip (SoC), and the ARM processor. In fact, we're working with over 20 SoC companies."

"DECE (Digital Entertainment Content Ecosystem) chose five DRMs as approved for delivery," said Burrows, noting that Widevine is one of the five. "The benefit of DECE-approved DRM delivery for CE devices is that you can get a single code from the digital video rental company for a variety of devices. While the code is initially for a particular device, if you purchase a new Blu-ray player-which will have a different device ID-you can still use the code to watch the program, as long as you are within the limit of devices that rental company allows. Even if you reach the limit, deauthorizing one device allows authorization of another."

http://newteevee.com/2010/04/21/widevine-names-netflix-gets-embedded-and-goes-live/

 

[jeff_rigby]

Here's REALLY good news IF PS3 gets GoogleTV

http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/12/sony-opens-android-developer-site-for-google-tv-devices/

Sony's GoogleTV "inherits" fundamental UI issues:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/12/sonys-internet-tv-powered-by-google-tv-first-hands-on/



Still the same old Sony. That's too bad.

If they are going to have a PS3 version, they should take the opportunity to revamp the experience.

To be fair, the UI is Google's. Some of the issues might be due to Tivo copyright on DVR UIs.

 

[patsu]

To be fair, the UI is Google's. Some of the issues might be due to Tivo copyright on DVR UIs.

The controller design is totally Sony. They touted that it's influenced by PS3

Even if the UI is Google, Sony should be able to smooth the overall user experience. iPhone has its own world for YouTube, Maps, ...

 

[jeff_rigby]

The controller design is totally Sony. They touted that it's influenced by PS3

Even if the UI is Google, Sony should be able to smooth the overall user experience. iPhone has its own world for YouTube, Maps, ...

And I've read from one that the controller is a very good design and from another that it's a poor design. I guess we will have to decide for ourselves. The two AA batteries are positioned on the bottom and at an angle mimicking the PS3 base to provide a grip for fingers, the forefingers positioned over buttons on the front and thumbs to press buttons on the face.

Re: Netflix and Lovefilm using Widevine cross platform player app which requires Javascript in the Wii and now supports the PS3 since 3.5

Did you read the post, watch the video and read the Widevine.com site? There is more information about the player apps and Ultraviolet in those than anywhere I have seen so far.

 

[JPT]

This might have been posted before, but I have not seen it at least.

This is webkit ported to XBox 360 and Playstation 3, from what I understand. Or maybe its webkit or some subset of it running within Skate3.

http://gpl.ea.com/skate3.html

If you got the SDK's you can compile webkit now

The readme file from the archive

Building WebKit
---------------
EA WebKit supports Win32, Win64, Playstation 3, and Xbox 360 platforms.
EA WebKit requires that you have proper development tools installed.

1. Install developer tools
2. Open \projects\<Visual Studio Version>\EA WebKit\<EA WebKit Version No>\EAWebKit.sln
3. Select appropriate platform\project from toolbar.
4. Execute Build.

Developer Requirements
----------------------
*General*
EA WebKit requires Visual Studio 2005 or 2008 to build.
Visual Studio can be obtained from Microsoft Corporation from http://www.microsoft.com/visualstudio/en-us/default.mspx.

For Visual Studio 2005, the following service pack will be required:
* Service Pack 1 for Visual Studio 2005

It is expected that Visual Studio will be installed under C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio <version>.
For VS 2005, that is C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio 8, and for VS 2008, C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio 9.

Windows SDK version 6.0.6001.18000.367 is also required and can be obtained at
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=F26B1AA4-741A-433A-9BE5-FA919850BDBF.
The SDK should be installed at C:\Program Files\Microsoft SDKs\Windows\v6.0A .

*Sony Playstation 3*
If building on Sony Playstation 3, installation of Playstation 3 SDK 300.001-SNC280.2 is required.
Playstation 3 SDK can be acquired by contacting Sony at http://www.scedev.net/.
Please request DLLInterface.h from Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. at their devnet site located at https://ps3.scedev.net and put the file in cell\target\ppu\include\sys folder before building EA WebKit.
The Sony SN-VSI 1.8.2 tool will also be required to build.

SCE_PS3_ROOT should be set up as an environment variable and point to the local \cell directory.

*Microsoft Xbox 360*
If building on Microsoft Xbox 360, installation of XDK 2.0.7978.0 is required.
XDK can be acquired by contacting Microsoft at http://www.xbox.com/en-US/dev/tools.htm.

Installation directory is assumed to be C:\Program Files\Microsoft Xbox 360 SDK .

 

[one]

This might have been posted before, but I have not seen it at least.

This is webkit ported to XBox 360 and Playstation 3, from what I understand. Or maybe its webkit or some subset of it running within Skate3.

http://gpl.ea.com/skate3.html

If you got the SDK's you can compile webkit now

The readme file from the archive

Thanks for the info, very interesting. It's based on the WebKit port for the Origyn Web Browser.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origyn_Web_Browser

This is a user-land app that is not related to platform features in XMB discussed above, btw. As mentioned already, if the firmware contained LGPL-ed parts such as WebKit, it would have to show so somewhere just like this EA port. But no such thing is found so far.

 

[patsu]

And I've read from one that the controller is a very good design and from another that it's a poor design. I guess we will have to decide for ourselves. The two AA batteries are positioned on the bottom and at an angle mimicking the PS3 base to provide a grip for fingers, the forefingers positioned over buttons on the front and thumbs to press buttons on the face.

I'd be curious to see a good impression about the Sony GoogleTV controller. All of the ones I checked out criticized it. I have not used one, but it looks too busy.

Re: Netflix and Lovefilm using Widevine cross platform player app which requires Javascript in the Wii and now supports the PS3 since 3.5

Did you read the post, watch the video and read the Widevine.com site? There is more information about the player apps and Ultraviolet in those than anywhere I have seen so far.

Yes, but it doesn't tell me anything concrete about PS3's HTML5 or JavaScript support. These are relatively new technologies. For a few decades, developers have been writing cross platform app using just C APIs. It is still a valid approach. NetFlix, FaceBook have REST/Web Services anyway. As you noted, Java is another possibility for some devices. So there's not much news here w.r.t. PS3's browser technology.


EDIT:
From the earlier Engadget link...

The Sony keyboard remote feels nice in the hand, but it's pretty unintuitive. Although both of your thumbs rest naturally on the controls up top, you're not supposed to use them at the same time -- you can either arrow around the UI with the left thumb or control the mouse with the finicky optical pad under your right. The two things are totally separate, so you're using the arrows and you accidentally click the right button, you end up selecting whatever's under the mouse cursor and going off in a totally different direction. It's weird, especially since it's supposed to feel like a PS3 controller -- a controller that generally uses both thumb controls together very effectively.

 

[patsu]

This might have been posted before, but I have not seen it at least.

This is webkit ported to XBox 360 and Playstation 3, from what I understand. Or maybe its webkit or some subset of it running within Skate3.

http://gpl.ea.com/skate3.html

If you got the SDK's you can compile webkit now

The readme file from the archive

Cool ! Too bad we don't have PS3 Linux to play with it now.

I wonder if it's possible for a dev to sell this over PSN as a standalone app.

 

[NeoTechni]

I wonder if it's possible for a dev to sell this over PSN as a standalone app.

If we ask EA enough, surely they'd be willing to. At least, include it in some of their games for us.

customerservice@ea.com and support@ea.com

 

[jeff_rigby]

Cool ! Too bad we don't have PS3 Linux to play with it now.

I wonder if it's possible for a dev to sell this over PSN as a standalone app.

I do not believe the EA released webkit is for PS3 Linux. Dates in the zip file are 5/12/2010 which is three months after Linux was removed from the PS3.

Also includes are from the Chrome webkit which had a stable release for version 5 around that date.

 

[patsu]

It needs the Game OS SDK, but it should not be a show stopper for the Open Source development community.