The non-standard game interfaces discussion thread (move, voice, vitality, etc.)
- Thread starter patsu
- Start date
Hence my suggestion in the other thread of MS (or another company) bringing out a xbox360 controller thats meant to be held in one hand, it can even play some normal games, provided they only use one stick + a couple of buttons, it doesnt need the motion stuff inside like the wii,ps3 controllers thus will be cheap to make.
Unless they do this then kinect will be limited to party + fitness games, though even with this restriction it could still be a huge success, whats the biggest game this generation? Its not MW2 its wii-fit !!!
Giving ppl the idea of physically improving themselves is a multi-billion a year industry that dwarfs gaming
I don't agree Child of eden prove otherwise. If you looks well enough it looks like his actions change depending on his left arm position, from lock in the early part of the demo to continuous fire at the end.
Clearly the creator of the game pretty much highlighted the path, one may think on more than one left hand position to map to reasonable amount of actions (including moving a character). Then there are full body postures/movement which may trigger actions spells whatever.
It looks more compelling than the breast stroke likely mapped to movements in the SW demo but it's still another option.
Thanks for the explanation.
Honestly I don't see it sell systems I'm pretty much with Joker454 and some others here.
Whereas Kinect success is not written in advance, that I've still question about the tech, its potential to sell system is imho unparalleled with Move appeal.
On top of it Sony may have put some limit in the way you use move, one move or one move and a sub, two move. As patcher puts it if you want to be able to play all of Move game it will cost the gamer quiet some money. Imho Sony should have discard the two move controllers option.
But yes it's likely to sell to a part of the user base in need for something close to KB+M whereas Kinect can completely fail and not sell at all whatever the reason.
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Indeed ~150$/€ along with first gen titles being mostly super casual games with few depth could end with laughing "core" gamers. Ms has to leverage their user base as a promoting tool for the tech, they have to price accordingly. Otherwise they may be over confident and take risks.
I wonder if the price for Kinect has as much to do with supply vs demand as it does actual costs. How many Kinect modules is a reasonable estimate of supply to stores by December 18 for arguments sake, or a week before Christmas day?
Are we talking about 5M Kinect modules, 10M? 15? How many of those things are popping out of the factories every week and since when? If we had a reasonable prediction on supply then it would make the price argument a heck of a lot easier. We know they may as well not price it so low as to both lose money and sell out because they cannot sell any more, but we don't know how many they have!
It actually does make a lot more sense in a manufacturing context that Microsoft released their updated console now, its a manufacturing issue switching over to new production because even now they sold out of their first two shipments and more in the first week. The Xbox 360 S is like a burp, better out than in right? So perhaps the reason why its being delayed until November is yet another quantity manufactured issue? They looked a lot closer to release at E3 2009 but they are further away now.
Are we talking about 5M Kinect modules, 10M? 15? How many of those things are popping out of the factories every week and since when? If we had a reasonable prediction on supply then it would make the price argument a heck of a lot easier. We know they may as well not price it so low as to both lose money and sell out because they cannot sell any more, but we don't know how many they have!
It actually does make a lot more sense in a manufacturing context that Microsoft released their updated console now, its a manufacturing issue switching over to new production because even now they sold out of their first two shipments and more in the first week. The Xbox 360 S is like a burp, better out than in right? So perhaps the reason why its being delayed until November is yet another quantity manufactured issue? They looked a lot closer to release at E3 2009 but they are further away now.
scooby_dooby
Legend
Because they can't compete with Nintendo, playing Nintendo's game. It's too similar to be marketable from a hardware standpoint, and from a software standpoint Sony won't be able to produce the smash hit's like Nintendo can. So they are left trying to get hardcore gamers, to buy motion control's for their hardcore games...not gonna work!
Say what you will about ports, what is driving Wii is steller* 1st party software.
*steller in the ability to attract the casual audience, not necessarily steller in terms of quality.
I'm thinking that maybe they are waiting to see what happens with Move first when it releases in September, then perhaps nail down pricing after that. I do hope they go with $99, as $149 seems kinda high.
Hasn't MS been on the record that they want 5M Kinects sold in a year?
Playstation can do it though. They've done it before with the PS1 and PS2, and this time it took them long enough to get to the point where the PS3 can reach the more casual audience.
In terms of software though, they're getting there, with LittleBigPlanet 2, ModNation Racers, SingStar, Buzz, EyePet, their Move Sports and Move Play versions, Heavy Rain, God of War, Gran Turismo 5, Final Fantasy XIII, the Sorceror, Heroes on the Move (which is basically Jak & Daxter, Ratchet & Clank and Sly combined, with Move controls of the weapons), Infamous 2, The Agent, the various MMOs that will be coming soon now one after the other, loads of great fun titles on PSN like Wipeout, Flower, Joe Danger, Rocket Men, all the great multi-platform stuff and so much more.
My biggest concern right now is that 399$ is steep for the PS3 Move bundle, no question about it. It may be their biggest hurdle - in all other respects, the PS3 is gaining strong momentum, at least over here in Europe the Wii is in trouble, and in Japan Wii and PS3 are still going head-to-head and it will be interesting to see what kind of effect Move will have there. They also have plenty of added value over the Wii with top level BluRay and various other media capabilities, better online, better graphics and sound, harddrive, etc. and that is becoming a known quantity now. But they'll still be twice as expensive as the Wii for now, and even if they can explain the added value, it'll still be a problem that wlil prevent them from hitting really massive sales numbers.
They should bring it to $299 as soon as possible. I don't think that's outside the realm of possibility either, but for now it looks like $399 is what they're taking it into the holidays with, which would be a shame. You can probably get a non-Move PS3 for $299 or less, but ideally I'd have liked to see Move included for that price.
(((interference)))
Veteran
Yes, I was exaggerating, but 'heavily modified' your brand new engine is still a big deal and not like GT5, KZ2 etc where they can just slot in Move support.
How many devs are going to want to make such modifications to support Kinect and work with the performance penalty incurred.
What happens if the player isn't using Kinect? Will they just have to accept the downgrades in graphics/physics/AI etc. that were made to add Kinect functionality?
I don't think the 360 core will be pleased to know that their games are being watered down to add head tracking.
This, Kinect already seems to be the spiritual successor to the Wii, garnering mainstream media coverage.
Also, Move's appeal isn't helped by the fact that the wand with it's huge, glowing ball looks seriously dorky.
Oh and also, like that article I posted in the old thread, which caused some to declare how Gizmodo is some unimportant, tin pot blog.
It turns out Engadget also did a piece on E3's aftermath
They might use very different words to Giz, but they get to a similar point
EDIT: Oh and for a camera that doesn't do half of what it was supposed to, Kinect's manufacturing cost is apparently ridiculous:
http://www.develop-online.net/news/35198/Source-pins-Kinect-manufacturing-costs-to-150
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So many people here just ruling Move out and blindly buying into Kinect. It really baffles me. You act like these devices are supposed to start moving hardware out of the box and bring in the Wii consumers.
The first place either of these companies need to focus is the people who already own the box, since they are ADD ON devices. I guess we'll see in a few months.
The first place either of these companies need to focus is the people who already own the box, since they are ADD ON devices. I guess we'll see in a few months.
(((interference)))
Veteran
Actually I said something similar in the old thread (except related to Kinect's pricing) about a month ago in the old thread:
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=54307&highlight=(((interference)))&page=102
I don't know who called Gizmodo an unimportant, tin pot blog. They are influential because of the huge traffic, but their opinions are not necessarily always correct. Mine too.
It is easy to get caught up by the excitement. The proof is in the pudding.
Gizmodo said:
After E3...
It's attention grabbing and a promise with an incomplete experience at the moment. They need both working software and hardware to sell. The price is also an unknown. There are 2 parts to the equation: the initial draw and the after sales. It is unclear what the situation is right now regarding Kinect, after the initial wave of enthusiast buy-in.
I bumped into a guy who went to E3. He complained that Kinect didn't work properly for him (Can't track his jump and waves e.g., for the white water rafting mini-game).
He complained that some PS Move titles didn't work well too ("clearly work in progress"). I'd say this is probably a more important challenge for Sony to handle if they are pitching precision and natural experience. Journalists who visit E3 will feel dampened by the experience (hence, no better than Wii).
The best news he said was he tried Sorcery and he thinks it's the most responsive and natural so far (His favorite of the lot). He also mentioned that Child of Eden for Move doesn't work as well for him. Take it with a pinch of salt though. I don't know this guy too well.
All we need to do is wait and see. I am sure the vendors will adjust their presentations in Gamerscon and TGS given the E3 experience. Nintendo still has to show Vitality Sensor.
Kotaku mentioned it:
http://kotaku.com/5563293/this-is-basically-rez-for-the-playstation-move
I don't know what the deal is.
http://kotaku.com/5563293/this-is-basically-rez-for-the-playstation-move
I don't know what the deal is.
First, these are launch/1st generation titles & software. As with all consoles, the first launch games are usually ass. There's lot of room for improvement and plenty of time to do it in. I think a lot of people are forgetting about the longer term possibilities.
Anyway, the reason I quoted you on this is the manufacturing costs rumor. It costs Microsoft $150 to build that camera? At first, that seems inconceivable, but then again they do have a lot of R&D costs from purchasing 3DV Systems and licensing the tech from PrimeSense. It's not completely out of the question for them to sell below costs provided they sell it in other markets too, but it's looking more & more likely that they're going to be selling it $150. The best news from the article is that the Kinect system bundle might be the best value.
Tommy McClain
Move's market positioning is going to be a large determiner of how well it does - I think there is immense chance of it getting lost in the mix. If we assume that most of the casual market is already saturated via Nintendo, then their adoption of Move IMO is almost entirely premised on Sony really pushing home the "it only does everything" message, and giving non-owners reason to buy into those non-gaming, or higher fidelity gaming, aspects... with the thought that yes, they will retain a quasi-Wii experience as well.
And of course, that only really applies to those families/people that would want said more in-depth experience to begin with. I think it is a nebulous demographic at best, and very hard to predict. The other angle for Sony is whether it will have large uptake as an accessory by the existing use base... I wouldn't be surprised if it did alright, which I equate with profitable, and always in my book thus 'worth it.' Don't know for sure whether I need it myself though.
Kinect is just "cool," though I don't know that it brings anything overly new or incredible to gaming itself. But for those intrigued by the concept you can see where it could be exciting. $150 certainly seems like too much, but whatever. With Kinect, you get more the sense that Wii owners could be drawn in by the novelty of it, should it reach sufficient mindshare; who knows if it will. Again not anything I myself require however.
Might as well harp on my usual theme that Sony has really been asleep at the wheel for the last several years in terms of pushing EyeToy, related games, and development of improvements - to their detriment.
Outside of the above unknowns, a different measure I consider is: amongst the existing 360 and PS3 ownership... which accessory, Move or Kinect, is more likely to compel non-owners of the other console to pick it up and try it out? Have my guess, but hard to say.
And of course, that only really applies to those families/people that would want said more in-depth experience to begin with. I think it is a nebulous demographic at best, and very hard to predict. The other angle for Sony is whether it will have large uptake as an accessory by the existing use base... I wouldn't be surprised if it did alright, which I equate with profitable, and always in my book thus 'worth it.' Don't know for sure whether I need it myself though.
Kinect is just "cool," though I don't know that it brings anything overly new or incredible to gaming itself. But for those intrigued by the concept you can see where it could be exciting. $150 certainly seems like too much, but whatever. With Kinect, you get more the sense that Wii owners could be drawn in by the novelty of it, should it reach sufficient mindshare; who knows if it will. Again not anything I myself require however.
Might as well harp on my usual theme that Sony has really been asleep at the wheel for the last several years in terms of pushing EyeToy, related games, and development of improvements - to their detriment.
Outside of the above unknowns, a different measure I consider is: amongst the existing 360 and PS3 ownership... which accessory, Move or Kinect, is more likely to compel non-owners of the other console to pick it up and try it out? Have my guess, but hard to say.
