The non-standard game interfaces discussion thread (move, voice, vitality, etc.)

[BadTB25]

I feel that one of the best ways to utilize Kinect with the core game would be to push the voice recognition.

For example, weapons switching in FPS games that allow you to carry 5-6 guns/grenades or squad commands for games like Mass Effect, etc.

It can be a mix/match type situation. There is no need for an all or nothing approach.

 

[Nesh]

Not really. The purpose is to get non gamers interested, and that includes getting gamers playing together with non gamers. The simple example is a hardcore gamer that would love to play games with their spouse, but spouse would rather inhale ammonia than play hardcore games that are just too fast/confusing/complicated. So combine the two. Make a game that the hardcore can play like normal with a regular controller as always, but allow the option of having a non gamer join in the same game using kinect in some way. Dumb example might be while playing Red Dead Redemption, maybe non gamer handles simple things like the lasso, and gamer does everything else. Or in Blur, maybe non gamer selects and launches the powerups, while again gamer does everything else. Non gamer with kinect may play a very minor role but that's fine, it still is a way to get them both playing together. Then gamer can continue to feel all l33t while playing their hardcore game with their regular controller, and non gamer spouse can now finally also get to join in.

So what you suggest is either play with the controller, or without, or have two people play the same game simultaneously by having one do the motion stuff and the other do the rest.
The original question was though (Assuming an SP mode and that the casual non-gamer chooses to play with motion control), how can the player move the character around in the 3D environment while doing the body actions at the same time? Since you cant actually run in your room there is a need for something extra to do it (Wii and Move solve the problem with an analogue stick on one hand and another for motion control). This is where someone suggested the 360 controller. Which indeed defeats the purpose of the motion control method that MS communicates since its about 100% controller-free gaming if you choose to play the game with Kinect. Developers can use a hybrid method and I welcome it, but it sure limits the experiences that can use solely Kinect and what some people initially expected with the promise of controller-free gaming. At the end with a hybrid method it is more similar to Move and Wii than what was initially thought

 

[Silent_Buddha]

So what you suggest is either play with the controller, or without, or have two people play the same game simultaneously by having one do the motion stuff and the other do the rest.

Oh, now that's a very cool multiplayer creative use of Kinect that I never even thought of.

Imagine a hardcore FPS/TPS. But multiplayer co-op, you could have your partner be a medic/engineer. With one player using the controller in standard shooter fashion while the other player through Kinect can patch your wounds, build cover, lay out mines/traps, build and place turrets, spot for artillery, drive the vehicles...

That would be kinda cool and pretty unique.

Regards,
SB

 

[egoless]

Delete

 

[Nesh]

Oh, now that's a very cool multiplayer creative use of Kinect that I never even thought of.

Imagine a hardcore FPS/TPS. But multiplayer co-op, you could have your partner be a medic/engineer. With one player using the controller in standard shooter fashion while the other player through Kinect can patch your wounds, build cover, lay out mines/traps, build and place turrets, spot for artillery, drive the vehicles...

That would be kinda cool and pretty unique.

Regards,
SB

Oh yes it would be very unique and interesting. Although the problem is how would a SP experience be handled, can Kinect recognize two people interacting with each physically and what if the guy who holds the controller is sitting?

But I have other concepts in mind that could work well and would be really fun

If you do it completely controller free for these types of games, it resorts to low-fi gestures ala wii sans motion plus, or something so physical you wouldn't want to play it. For the former, in the Kinect star wars concept video, he leaned forward to move his character forward. The suggestion is YOU become the analog stick. For the latter, you'd still lean, but add walk/run/stop in place and turn in the direction you want to go. Way to physical for this type of game, but right at home for a fitness type app.

Well since Star Wars was a part of a show to communicate the vision through spectacles than anything else it is impossible to discern how functional and comfortable it is to move a character like that around. We havent seen anything similar in live demonstration. From my gaming experience all these years, I find it extremely difficult to imagine precision movement in 3D space with Kinect for any of the games I have played so far. Unless the game of course is specifically designed with simplicity in mind (on rails? cruise control type of movement?) and expects limited movement in limited 3D space. I think that for games like 3rd person shooters etc a controller could be a necessity (if not designed with over-simplicity in mind).

 

[obonicus]

Oh, now that's a very cool multiplayer creative use of Kinect that I never even thought of.

Mario Galaxy does something of that nature. One player controls Mario, but another person can use a second wiimote to do the star bits stuff, which involves mostly pointing at the screen.

 

[(((interference)))]

Dont know if already posted but saw this:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=398610

Well, that just shot down hopes of having Kinect enhancements to core, controller based games. Kinect has been watered down ridiculously from what the original vision shown last year was. You should always underpromise and overdeliver, not the other way round.

Oh, now that's a very cool multiplayer creative use of Kinect that I never even thought of.

Imagine a hardcore FPS/TPS. But multiplayer co-op, you could have your partner be a medic/engineer. With one player using the controller in standard shooter fashion while the other player through Kinect can patch your wounds, build cover, lay out mines/traps, build and place turrets, spot for artillery, drive the vehicles...

That would be kinda cool and pretty unique.

Regards,
SB

Hmm, I think it will only be a gimmicky thing you try once and never again - have you ever played Geometry Wars in wingman mode? That's precisely the same thing and hardly anyone plays it more than once - too frustrating.

I really hope MS launch a Move like sub controller for Kinect, to enable more complex titles, rather than everything be on rails.

 

[zed]

Ah I see so sort of like a fundamentalist, if it isn't absolutely pure and chaste it is meaningless? If a developer wishes to have a game using both a controller and Kinect, it is now heresy?

History lesson
http://www.google.co.nz/search?q=yo...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

'You are the controller,' Microsoft's Shane Kim said.

when natal as launched it was all about "throw away your controllers" etc

Fortunately, those people aren't the ones developing games, or it would turn out like you said.

did you see the actual list of the first 15 kinect games, 14 of the fifteen in fact are

This is where someone suggested the 360 controller. Which indeed defeats the purpose of the motion control method that MS communicates since its about 100% controller-free gaming if you choose to play the game with Kinect. Developers can use a hybrid method and I welcome it, but it sure limits the experiences that can use solely Kinect and what some people initially expected with the promise of controller-free gaming. At the end with a hybrid method it is more similar to Move and Wii than what was initially thought

Exactly right, for consumers the best method is to keep kinect as is but include an additional one handed controller, though I cant really see MS doing this
A/ extra cost
B/ defeats the "body is the controller" mantra

Microsoft confirms Kinect currently does not work while seated

Well, that just shot down hopes of having Kinect enhancements to core, controller based games. Kinect has been watered down ridiculously from what the original vision shown last year was. You should always underpromise and overdeliver, not the other way round.

well they did hire Peter Molyneux so ......

 

[egoless]

Delete

 

[V3]

Microsoft confirms Kinect currently does not work while seated

I thought some journo already played some racing game on Kinect and even made comments about the experience.

 

[Cyan]

Dont know if already posted but saw this:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=398610

Every time a new technology is created there are always obstacles, they have to find a way to sort them out and go on.

It's a very important issue for a technology with such a great potential and they can't get around the problem by pretending it doesn't exist.

I think developers and MS need to get their heads together to decide how they are going to get around this problem in the upcoming months and circumvent that.

The tech bloggers seem to think so too:



http://gizmodo.com/5567221/how-sony-lost-the-videogame-hardware-race

I feel really sad I had to read that. I don't remember, ever, reading such an article full of hatred.

The author of the article shouldn't even be considered a journalist.

I mean it could have been written by a fanboy, but if that were the case.., those are actually FUN (I must admit some fanboy responses and thoughts make me laugh out loud, especially taking into account they are unpaid by their favourite company).

But an actual journalist writing something along the lines of that article is actually a sheer hater. I have never heard of that page before and I am glad it's the last time I'm goint to read an article of them.

The last sentence of the article is like one of those Horatio's one liners in CSI Miami, just the hater version.

 

[Cyan]

I thought some journo already played some racing game on Kinect and even made comments about the experience.

I loved the controls of Joy Ride initially, but reading more articles it seems you don't brake or accelerate?

I don't know if it's just me, but I remember days ago someone pointed out that in order to brake you had to bend your arms towards your body as you drove, getting them closer to your body, at chest's height.

I really loved the idea, I found it very original.

And when wanting to accelerate again you just had to extend your arms to the original position and the car would keep accelerating.

This way you can keep turning at all times regardless, when necessary.

 

[BadTB25]

You cannot break or accelerate in Joyride, but you can boost from what I saw. Anyway, it appears to be another game that is geared more towards the casuals than the hardcore.

I can imagine it be very appealing to the 6 y/o crowd...and soccer moms.

 

[(((interference)))]

Let's not go there, there's no information to be gleaned from amazon preorders. Not to mention that I don't think anyone really questions that Kinect will do better than Move. The gizmodo thing isn't comparing the two, it's saying that MS' showing was even better than Nintendo with the freaking 3DS and its dozen+ promised games.

Agree

Kinect is pretty useless so far, can't use it sitting down, can't do finger tracking (so no finger fighters style games), can only refresh at 30hz, has noticeable lag and incurs a substantial performance penalty.

I'm beginning to wonder if we'll ever see a Kinect game that'll appeal to core gamers before the new Xbox comes out.

 

[obonicus]

Kinect is pretty useless so far, can't use it sitting down, can't do finger tracking (so no finger fighters style games), can only refresh at 30hz, has noticeable lag and incurs a substantial performance penalty.

A ton of bad news for Kinect in the last few days. There's apparently a primesense interview on joystiq about Kinect supporting only two people at a time. But then there's the 2 backup dancers in Dance Central, are those picked up or not?

I'm kinda surprised that blogs are actually being this direct about an unreleased product by a major company. Is it the sitting down thing that made them feel like it's open season?

 

[messyman]

A ton of bad news for Kinect in the last few days. There's apparently a primesense interview on joystiq about Kinect supporting only two people at a time. But then there's the 2 backup dancers in Dance Central, are those picked up or not?

I'm kinda surprised that blogs are actually being this direct about an unreleased product by a major company. Is it the sitting down thing that made them feel like it's open season?

According to Giantbomb's bombcast, no.

 

[patsu]

A ton of bad news for Kinect in the last few days. There's apparently a primesense interview on joystiq about Kinect supporting only two people at a time. But then there's the 2 backup dancers in Dance Central, are those picked up or not?

I'm kinda surprised that blogs are actually being this direct about an unreleased product by a major company. Is it the sitting down thing that made them feel like it's open season?

I saw that. The Kinect camera should be useful for more than full body skeleton analysis. It should be possible to recognize say, hand gestures only. May want to give MS some time to sort things out. It is not uncommon in software projects to stall and then pick up momentum suddenly (once a difficult issue has been resolved).

 

[obonicus]

I'm aware of that. The skepticism I've shown so far is regarding motion controls in general/controllerless gaming. I'm trying to avoid commenting on the implementation so far because I know it's bound to change.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

For example, weapons switching in FPS games that allow you to carry 5-6 guns/grenades or squad commands for games like Mass Effect, etc.

It can be a mix/match type situation. There is no need for an all or nothing approach.

Although they have not mentioned voice, Bioware did talk about how fitting Kinect would be to immerse the players even more into Mass Effect. The conversation system for example could easily use simple gestures for selecting answers or quick interrupts.

 

[_phil_]

. But then there's the 2 backup dancers in Dance Central, are those picked up or not?

None of the dancers in Dance central are animated by Kinect tracking them.Isn't that obvious ?
Kinect is just there to more or less accurately recognise some key poses (or partial key pose paterns) from time to time.