The non-standard game interfaces discussion thread (move, voice, vitality, etc.)

They will both sell to existing game enthusiasts and tech folks first.

For Move, it alone may not be the main draw to attract Wii owners. If these owners want to upgrade from Wii, they most likely are looking for something not on Wii... like HD, Blu-ray, a more mature game library, and/or a new experience like Kinect. Move is an acknowledgement from Sony that Wii control works, and they want it in the core experience. It's also a way for Sony to tap on Nintendo's advances and marketing dollars for motion gaming. It would allow core gamers to play with family members. And that's it.

What happened to females, seniors, and the rest of the "new/casual gamer" population ? I think Sony may not have specific plans for them (yet ?) until they are satisfied with the core gamers market, and they have the right content mix for casuals on the console.

Judging from Sony's pace, I think they are going to take their own sweet time again, and with continual emphasis on its first party library.

In the long run, with or without Kinect, Vitality Sensor, 3DS, iPad/iPhone; Sony will have its own channel to reach out to casuals. e.g., I still hear Blu-ray as one of the most cited reasons for friends to buy a PS3 (and then they buy a few games). Sony Online Entertainment already has a casual gamer network (Did they show Free Realm this E3 as promised ?). Or may be they will work with Google (PSP2?) or the rest of Sony group (3DTV) on some other benefits for casuals. They may see these avenues as more appropriate approaches to reach out to the non-gamers without over-spending, and diluting their core gamers' focus.

Outside of the above unknowns, a different measure I consider is: amongst the existing 360 and PS3 ownership... which accessory, Move or Kinect, is more likely to compel non-owners of the other console to pick it up and try it out? Have my guess, but hard to say.

I think it depends on reliable software, inspiring features and marketing (pricing, effective advertising, blah). If their experiences are too shallow or if they don't work consistently, a few visits to BestBuy would suffice.
 
Playstation can do it though. They've done it before with the PS1 and PS2, and this time it took them long enough to get to the point where the PS3 can reach the more casual audience.
Did they or did they get lucky by moving to cd with the ps1 while nintendo stayed on with carts and was 18 months late ?



In terms of software though, they're getting there, with LittleBigPlanet 2, ModNation Racers, SingStar, Buzz, EyePet, their Move Sports and Move Play versions, Heavy Rain, God of War, Gran Turismo 5, Final Fantasy XIII, the Sorceror, Heroes on the Move (which is basically Jak & Daxter, Ratchet & Clank and Sly combined, with Move controls of the weapons), Infamous 2, The Agent, the various MMOs that will be coming soon now one after the other, loads of great fun titles on PSN like Wipeout, Flower, Joe Danger, Rocket Men, all the great multi-platform stuff and so much more.

I'm not sure what game here is going to convince a casual gamer to give up thier wii for a ps3 with move . Some of these might get current ps3 owners to buy move , but is that what sony really wants ?


My biggest concern right now is that 399$ is steep for the PS3 Move bundle, no question about it. It may be their biggest hurdle - in all other respects, the PS3 is gaining strong momentum, at least over here in Europe the Wii is in trouble, and in Japan Wii and PS3 are still going head-to-head and it will be interesting to see what kind of effect Move will have there. They also have plenty of added value over the Wii with top level BluRay and various other media capabilities, better online, better graphics and sound, harddrive, etc. and that is becoming a known quantity now. But they'll still be twice as expensive as the Wii for now, and even if they can explain the added value, it'll still be a problem that wlil prevent them from hitting really massive sales numbers.

Move itself is just way to expensive. The bundle is $100 but then you need another $150 to get 3 more players in the game. So you get a $400 system plus $150 is $550 for 4 gamers. The wii on the other hand is $365. Not only that but the wii already has a huge library of casual friendly games and its growing every day.

They should bring it to $299 as soon as possible. I don't think that's outside the realm of possibility either, but for now it looks like $399 is what they're taking it into the holidays with, which would be a shame. You can probably get a non-Move PS3 for $299 or less, but ideally I'd have liked to see Move included for that price.

I don't see how they could bring it down to $300. I don't think the system is ready for a price cut yet both market and cost of goods wise. If you under price the move controllers you might have the casuals asking why. After all for that type of experiance the wii is the defacto standard.
 
http://store.microsoft.com/microsoft/Kinect-Sensor-for-Xbox-360/product/C737B081

kinect-microsoft-150-rme-ng.jpg


Kinect is officialy 150 dollars without a game. And an adapter is needed for non silm xbox 360.
 
I'm thinking that maybe they are waiting to see what happens with Move first when it releases in September, then perhaps nail down pricing after that. I do hope they go with $99, as $149 seems kinda high.

Relative to Move its actually kind of cheap, relative to the Wii at $199 its quite expensive. I hope they're keeping their eye on the latter and not the former and have enough Kinect cameras to bring to market/bundle at that price point.

To me the important part is not the accessory cost on its own but the cost of the Kinect + cheapest Arcade unit. Gamestop has that listed at $299 and is that good enough against the Wii? Is it going to be priced as $200 for the core console, and $99 to make mum/sister happy at the same time whilst taking advantage of the cool media interface? Ideally $249 is a better bet IMO but we'll see.

Hasn't MS been on the record that they want 5M Kinects sold in a year?

5M is a lot, but is it enough? They can easily burn through that number in holiday sales alone if they bundled every single console.
 
Relative to Move its actually kind of cheap, relative to the Wii at $199 its quite expensive. I hope they're keeping their eye on the latter and not the former and have enough Kinect cameras to bring to market/bundle at that price point.

To me the important part is not the accessory cost on its own but the cost of the Kinect + cheapest Arcade unit. Gamestop has that listed at $299 and is that good enough against the Wii? Is it going to be priced as $200 for the core console, and $99 to make mum/sister happy at the same time whilst taking advantage of the cool media interface? Ideally $249 is a better bet IMO but we'll see.
hopefully the console bundle comes with a few games.

Right now you get games with the wii at $250


5M is a lot, but is it enough? They can easily burn through that number in holiday sales alone if they bundled every single console.

World wide ? Not a chance . I think world wide they need to do 10m its first year if not more. 5m mabye for Nov -december world wide then thats not so bad.


Personaly I'm holding out hope they put this at $120-$130. Doesn't sound much cheaper but when you compare $120 to the move's price its exactly on par with the move bundle + navigator . $130 is just a tad bit more.

If they get 4 players working in launch games advertising can make the case that its $120-$130 to play 4 players vs $250-$270 in move costs or about the same on the wii(if not mabye more)
 
kinect for $150 with no game sounds like a recipe for failure... what is MS thinking? But then again MS thought BOB was a good idea too lol
 
Outside of the above unknowns, a different measure I consider is: amongst the existing 360 and PS3 ownership... which accessory, Move or Kinect, is more likely to compel non-owners of the other console to pick it up and try it out? Have my guess, but hard to say.

Can't be a serious question!? It's a no brainer.

One of them seems like a futuristic technology, that we've only ever seen in sci-fi movies.

And the other seems, on the surface, to be nearly identical to a console that people have been playing on for 4 years.

I'd actually go as far to say that almost _everyone_ would be interested in trying out Kinect, even the biggest naysayers would still pop in and give it a try if they had the chance, if only for the novelty factor.
 
kinect for $150 with no game sounds like a recipe for failure... what is MS thinking? But then again MS thought BOB was a good idea too lol
nintendo prolly wished they charged $350 for the wii at launch, not $250. They still would of sold out!
If the item is desirable then price is secondary.
All MS has to do is make the public think they need the device as a manner to lose some kilos.
Also if it doesnt sell at $150 then drop the price to $100 in a couple of months (and offer all early adopters $50 back + perhaps a free game as reward)
 
EDIT: oops, eastmen already posted.

It also mentions you need six feet between you and the TV. That's less than I expected and the room I currently have between the TV and the couch might just be enough, but it'll be close and I'm a tall guy.
 
nintendo prolly wished they charged $350 for the wii at launch, not $250. They still would of sold out!
If the item is desirable then price is secondary.
All MS has to do is make the public think they need the device as a manner to lose some kilos.
Also if it doesnt sell at $150 then drop the price to $100 in a couple of months (and offer all early adopters $50 back + perhaps a free game as reward)

If that were true, the PS3 wouldn't have seen a massive resurgence with the redesign + price cut.
 
5M is a lot, but is it enough? They can easily burn through that number in holiday sales alone if they bundled every single console.

If the price really is $150, then we're talking about bundles at >= $300, maybe even a return of the old price of $399. I'm not convinced they can do that many bundles at that price point, not for the audience they're targetting.
 
I question, by the way, Microsoft's ability to make their device cheap. The fact alone that it has a motor that allows it to swivel and tilt and needs a high power source leading to an external adapter for non-"Slim" 360s suggests they probably won't be able to go under $100.

Well high power being extremely relative in this case. USB alone doesn't exactly provide all that much power. So anything that needs more than 5V and/or more than 100 mA sustained/500 mA peak will need an external power source. I'd be surprised if this draws more than 5-10 W.

Kinect is just "cool," though I don't know that it brings anything overly new or incredible to gaming itself. But for those intrigued by the concept you can see where it could be exciting. $150 certainly seems like too much, but whatever. With Kinect, you get more the sense that Wii owners could be drawn in by the novelty of it, should it reach sufficient mindshare; who knows if it will. Again not anything I myself require however.

Might as well harp on my usual theme that Sony has really been asleep at the wheel for the last several years in terms of pushing EyeToy, related games, and development of improvements - to their detriment.

Outside of the above unknowns, a different measure I consider is: amongst the existing 360 and PS3 ownership... which accessory, Move or Kinect, is more likely to compel non-owners of the other console to pick it up and try it out? Have my guess, but hard to say.

I'd have to say Dance Central is probably the most revolutionary title here. It takes the "dance" genre beyond rhythm button pushing/screen touching to actual posture/movement matching. Similar to how one of the music games (name escapes me now) allows you to learn how to play actual instruments, you'll actually have to perform actual dance moves rather than push a button or hit a virtual spot on the screen (as the Konami dance game is doing and PS Eye games did). And it moves beyond even that music game as it completely removes the rhythm button pushing and moves it to actual dancing.

Fully agreed that Sony missed a huge opportunity to further define and evolve what they started.

And I don't think Kinect will pull many owners of PS3, although they might get some Wii owners. But the thing is, MS isn't pushing hard for those people. They're pushing hard for a demographic that may or may not exist. The people that don't have a console to begin with. If people with other consoles picks one up that's just a bonus but not their direct target.

http://store.microsoft.com/microsoft/Kinect-Sensor-for-Xbox-360/product/C737B081

Kinect is officialy 150 dollars without a game. And an adapter is needed for non silm xbox 360.

I'm both surprised and not surprised. Not providing at least a game means the buyers only out of the box experience (if they already own a X360) will be the controller free UI. Certainly interesting, especially if their primary use of the 360 is as a media hub (I have a few friend like that with no games). But not exactly compelling otherwise.

But I'm not entirely surprised as I'm fully expecting a bundle package when MS starts the media blitz when we're close to actual hardware availability. At that point they'll be pushing even harder for those people without a console. And at that point the far more important SKU will be a X360/Kinect bundle.

I'm fully expecting that Kinect bundles will most likely be exactly 100 USD more than the non-Kinect version.

This also makes sense from the PoV that the same 149 USD pre-order Kinect will presumably be useable with Windows 7, in which case a game would be wasted extra cost.

I think that pre-order page just emphasizes the point that MS isn't targetting current owners of the console.

Damn, now this puts me into a quandry. If I was smart, I'd wait til the Kinect bundles hit. But damnit, I'm really wants a X360 S...NOW. :p

Regards,
SB
 
Hum, I see a lot of gloom and doom here. 399$ price point for the 360? This is not serious... at all.
Ms release the slim at the same price as the old elite doesn't mean that they could not have sold the thing @ a lower price. I guess they are just making more profit on the device based on the "fresh/new" factor.
I still believe Ms is iffy about Kinect price but I think they are likely to announced price drop before the end of the year it may not happen depending on their pricing strategy for Kinect but I can't see them go for a high price for Kinect and no price drop this year in the same time.
 
Hum, I see a lot of gloom and doom here. 399$ price point for the 360? This is not serious... at all.
Ms release the slim at the same price as the old elite doesn't mean that they could not have sold the thing @ a lower price. I guess they are just making more profit on the device based on the "fresh/new" factor.
I still believe Ms is iffy about Kinect price but I think they are likely to announced price drop before the end of the year it may not happen depending on their pricing strategy for Kinect but I can't see them go for a high price for Kinect and no price drop this year in the same time.

They'll do a new Slim Arcade unit with Kinect, though, right? That should be possible at 299$ and will include a game. This is why Microsoft is currently quite happy with where they are when it comes to Kinect's price point, and it is clear that their current priority is selling new systems with it rather than selling it to existing owners.

For the separate unit, they'll sell it at $149 to begin with and it won't include a game disc because they're also going to sell it for PCs (eventually). Then they'll start including a download voucher for 360 owners to download either Sports or Adventures, then they'll start dropping the price to $129, then to $99, etc., whenever they need more attention or be more competitive with the standalone unit, so that eventually every pre-existing 360 owner who remotely wanted one will get it.

(not saying this is how it will happen, but this seems to me to be the strategy)

Sony is in more trouble here, looking at $399 for a Move bundle isn't great, especially since Kinect supports two players. However, I'm sure they'll pack in Sports and then sell the extra controller in a bundle with Start the Party ;) (or the other way around). But they'll have to work hard to sell their bluray player and harddrive advantages again to justify the 100$ price difference, and against the Wii that's an even harder battle.

There's no question in my mind that Sony will be working their arses off to get their price down to $299 very quickly (maybe $329 first). I think they can do it, too - the PS3 here is 269 euro with BD remote, so they're not that far from managing a 299 euro Move bundle and at some point they may even be confident enough to offer a bundle that does not include a regular DualShock.

EDIT: some more articles and video of the tech demo stuff, not much new though:

http://www.time.com/time/video/player/0,32068,95776942001_0,00.html EDIT: this one at least contains lego blocks, so that's new, would be interesting to see that on video.
http://kotaku.com/5569137/how-developers-see-the-playstation-move EDIT: we've seen this one already
 
Well a 300euro Arcade bundle means that Ms mostly keep it current pricing on the arcade if I assume Kinect is 150€. Every year for christmas (not only for christmas actually) Ms offers 40€ rebate on the 360 which put almost officially the arcade SKU @160$. That does 140€ for Kinect.
I don't know what Ms has in its mind and they haven't been aggressive for a while now, but clearly they can do better, way better. The new 360 has to be pretty cheap to produce now:
multiple tiny chips on a single package.
Only one cooler, tinier on top of that => cheaper
Mobo has to be less complex.
Cheap external PSU.
Sony cut 100$/€ for lesser changes than those.
Clearly it's a matter of politic but a 300$/€ arcade+Kinect bundle is absolutely a given. And that not an aggressive move in anyway.
No matter Kinect appears @150$ on MS own site I still don't think they decide the price. I feel like they're testing water. They had a tv show yesterday, etc.
Whatever is their decision there will be a proper announcement. Why reveal the price now a few days after E3? Makes no sense, it doesn't make it any different.

Overall I think you may very well be right Ms has been consistently conservative lately. As I "fear" mobility is their huge focus 360 is there to bring money back up by a short sight strategy.

If Ms were in a long term strategy (without even thinking about bleeding shit ton of money):
they would drop the price for the new arcade and elite sku respectively to 149$/€ 229$/€ as soon as they clear the channel of older models. They would not think twice about about Kinect pricing and would take no risk even if it's to realize that they may have launched it at higher price.
Really something smell fishy right now in the land of the ED division.
This kind of new has also me thinking about Ms overall strategy and where the 360 is in the greater scheme on things. Next year "Fusion cpu"/APU will put gaming in the reach of many people...
I mean MS may think that console for "core" gaming will soon no longer the place where to be and they just use the 360 as "an encumbrance" for Sony hence "their cold feet" strategy.
On top of it and whereas Ms is dead silent on the matter, Kinect is coming to the PC world too.

I wonder if all that are the premises of Ms refocusing its activities on two axis: PC and Mobility.
Not that it doesn't make sense tho as custom hardware may have a tough time fighting against tomorrow PC parts whether it's on price or perf.

I read too much into it but still
 
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Hum, I see a lot of gloom and doom here. 399$ price point for the 360? This is not serious... at all.
Ms release the slim at the same price as the old elite doesn't mean that they could not have sold the thing @ a lower price. I guess they are just making more profit on the device based on the "fresh/new" factor.
I still believe Ms is iffy about Kinect price but I think they are likely to announced price drop before the end of the year it may not happen depending on their pricing strategy for Kinect but I can't see them go for a high price for Kinect and no price drop this year in the same time.

I'm guessing $399 because Sony went for $399 for their Move bundle. I'm not entirely convinced the 360 will have a price cut this year. If there's a price cut, then drop my guess to $350 or so. I really don't think MS is going to loss-lead on this: I think the days of loss-leading on hardware are over, for everyone.
 
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