The non-standard game interfaces discussion thread (move, voice, vitality, etc.)

What I think is that Sony must build a killer application just in order to make people love Move, and then spread the new control to everything it's suitable.

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As I said before, with emphasis on technology and not on marketing or, as other said, vision. WiiPlay and WiiSports was the kind of "vision" that people needed (sometimes I believe that the nature of that vision was a burden to some extent, that´s it, "casual" light games are the core, and not the gate to the core, "hard" core).

And that´s important because Kinect, due to technical reasons, hasn´t the ultra-precission that a hardcore control may need, and I´m waiting for an adequate substitute for mouse since a looong time, just as a first step to have room for PC "forgotten" genres.

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If I understand you correctly, what you're asking for is essentially a Move killer app for core gamers. I agree with you in spirit.

I believe every developer starts with the hope/intention to make a killer game. It's just that they didn't hit the mark for various reasons. It's not an easy task. The problem here is Move and Kinect are on an accelerated schedule, which makes it even harder.

Second is Sony's reluctance/inability/lack of attention to turn killer tech demoes into a real "deal". Many have seen interesting demoes (e.g., switching video playback between PSP and other devices on the fly, PSEye sketch recognition) that disappear into anonymity. Or they will execute a vision in a half-baked manner, missing the point altogether (e.g., PS3 web browser, PS Home). I also remember Kutaragi talked about a more open software distribution channel in his console vision. But no one succeeded him in that quest. All in all, you see Sony overtaken by competitors right under their noses. The management can't seem to pull and sustain a momentum together. When they do, it's all very diluted and scattered perhaps because they have to "let go" at some point (to prevent stepping on others' toes in other sister/children organizations). This has been their undoing because it resulted in half-done, "why are we doing this", "but we were here first; how did we end up last !?" syndromes. Perhaps this is what you're feeling ?

Now that the Move games are out the door, we can see what Sony thinks of its first wave of games. Where can Sony go from here ? I suppose they will want to add online play and extend co-op play for Sports Champions (i.e., more sequels). Will there be a EyePet 2 augmented reality title to generalize and sharpen their technologies ? Or is everything left up to the developers now ? If we do not see any continual improvement in the platform itself, in that sense, this doesn't change the game. It's the same old title business, same old hardware driven model -- even though Move is created by multiple Sony divisions together (first time in SCE history !). From outside, it's probably an impressive corporate achievement but not exciting/refreshing enough for the average consumers.




My personal preference is to make a killer app for everyone, not just core gamers. At $299 for the base hardware, the killer app needs to be something important or useful. e.g., WiiFit sold because wellness and weight watching is important for many. In my mind, for the PS3 generation, it's the content analysis (sketch recognition for photos, GraceNote analysis for music) to search and manage daily/family media on Internet and other storage devices. Move + PSEye would serve as good input devices in the livingroom compared to pure text input. They should have started this years ago. They have the computing power, the right tech and position to jump start the effort. They never did, or it's taking them a l~o~n~g time to put together.

In the mean time, it looks like Qriocity is their next big thing. Stereoscopic 3D is yet another big item. PSP2 is also a burning issue. Since Move has been launched, the decision makers may have "relocated" to another battle front. We'll see if anything exciting comes out for Move in the coming months. Sometimes I do wonder "who is the dedicated lead for Move ?". It can't be Dr. Marks because he is probably not authorized to handle finance and product decisions. It can't be Shuhei because he's not full time (probably all over the place, like Sony's product rollout).

Of course Kinect is phenomenal for other genres, and in its own it´ll be really useful, but a future with Kinect dominating the market and Move almost unnoticed it´s not the best scenario for old-fashion games. And I believe it will happen, just because Microsoft knows how to sell their technology, and Sony doesn´t.

For the future of gaming ? If I were to learn from my own family members, the war has already begun. The mobile gaming + social gaming + online gaming it is. MS's latest effort will beef up the attention in the living room, which is very fortunate for PS3 and Wii as well. At this point, I think all 3 vendors need each other to prevent the whole world sliding into the portable world. That's just my casual observation. No time to analyze too much here.

Perhaps it's a good investment from Sony's perspective to bring up Qriocity asap. It can be used by assorted devices.
 
If I understand you correctly, what you're asking for is essentially a Move killer app for core gamers. I agree with you in spirit.

I believe every developer starts with the hope/intention to make a killer game. It's just that they didn't hit the mark for various reasons. It's not an easy task. The problem here is Move and Kinect are on an accelerated schedule, which makes it even harder.

Second is Sony's reluctance/inability/lack of attention to turn killer tech demoes into a real "deal". Many have seen interesting demoes (e.g., switching video playback between PSP and other devices on the fly, PSEye sketch recognition) that disappear into anonymity.

Ech, you keep saying that. Just hurry on and help your buy unlock sketch recognition in EyePet already, it's used pretty extensively there. I've drawn a car that I could remote control, a plane that I could sort of remote control (just up and down in a spiral basically, but landing is pretty tough), and a balloon that I then played 'volleyball' with my Pet with. And I'm only about half-way through.

I agree with most of your other points - Sony is a big company and as is typical they have trouble creating a unified vision, but Sony is much worse in this because so far they have been a hardware company. That recent quote explaining that the change under Kaz has been dramatic and that the software guys are now telling the hardware guys what problems to solve rather than previously where hardware guys were just building new hardware almost aimlessly, technology searching for a market and application.

Sony still has a long way to go, but Yoshida's explanation of the changes and how the Move came about is promising. And certainly, as far as I know the Move launch is the best hardware/software combo that they have ever managed, by a long, long stretch.

Mind you it is still not perfect. There are some strange people in Japan responsible for the firmware and the browser, and in the last interview I read, they didn't even see the point in adding a Move driven pointer. :rolleyes:
 
Ech, you keep saying that. Just hurry on and help your buy unlock sketch recognition in EyePet already, it's used pretty extensively there. I've drawn a car that I could remote control, a plane that I could sort of remote control (just up and down in a spiral basically, but landing is pretty tough), and a balloon that I then played 'volleyball' with my Pet with. And I'm only about half-way through.

... because it's not reaching its full potential in EyePet alone.

EDIT:
[size=-2]If it works well in EyePet by the time I lay my hands on it, my blood would boil even more ![/size]
 
I am kind of surprised that there are so much commercials showing PS3+Move.
Typically I don't see much Playstation ads, but Move seems to be rather frequently shown...
 
The difference is Sony is more focused on sales whereas MS is more concerned with building Kinect brand at this point.
 
The difference is Sony is more focused on sales whereas MS is more concerned with building Kinect brand at this point.

At this point - precisely. This has more to do with Move being out, and Kinect not being out for two months yet. Advertising can be most effective when an ad consumer can follow up his interest in a product with a purchase, after all. ;)
 
Yes, but even when Kinect is out, I see MS continue to build the brand for Kinect to target a different audience. OTOH, Sony will associate everything back to PS3. Move is just another PS3 feature. They don't associate PS3 with core gamers directly. All along, they see PS3 as a everyone's box. So if all goes well, Kinect will sell to the target segments quickly because of the built up demand, whereas Move will flow along organically based on referral. The advertisements are just for awareness. That way, Sony earns more $$$ instead of building another sub brand for the same 'everyone' audience.
 
Yes, but even when Kinect is out, I see MS continue to build the brand for Kinect to target a different audience. OTOH, Sony will associate everything back to PS3. Move is just another PS3 feature. They don't associate PS3 with core gamers directly. All along, they see PS3 as a everyone's box. So if all goes well, Kinect will sell to the target segments quickly because of the built up demand, whereas Move will flow along organically based on referral. The advertisements are just for awareness. That way, Sony earns more $$$ instead of building another sub brand for the same 'everyone' audience.

I think it's a solid strategy in light of their(/my) ultimate goal(/desire), i.e. for the MOVE to replace the dual shock controller as the defacto control standard for the next Sony console PS4 ;-)
 
I think it's a solid strategy in light of their(/my) ultimate goal(/desire), i.e. for the MOVE to replace the dual shock controller as the defacto control standard for the next Sony console PS4 ;-)

I honestly don't believe that to be the case. I think that Sony will be launching PS4 with DS4.
 
I am pretty sure Sony will come up with a DS+Move hybrid for the PS4.

We have already seen something similar in one of their patents. Most likely R&D for motion control devices hasnt stopped with Move.
 
Yeah, the Move is missing a second stick to replace DS3.

Second anlog sticks are not needed. The future is motion control .


Remember The dual shock 3 isn't what replaced the Dual shock 2. There was a huge thing about sony not having rumble at launch and for like the first 2 years and them claiming it wasn't needed.
 
The rumble is indeed optional for some games or gamers. It's already taken care off by Move. Use the light ball for visual feedback if you don't want rumble. In Resistance 2, I turned rumble off because the hit rumble would mess up my grip. I held the controller + sticks too tight and triggered the zoom function, followed by instant death.

The second stick is needed for some games. If Sony can magically add it without complicating the whole controller, then Move + 2nd stick = Move + DS3 (rumble on) + SIXAXIS (rumble off). Sony will have to clear all the DualShock inventory in the channel though.
 
Second anlog sticks are not needed. The future is motion control.
The future is brain control!
Remember The dual shock 3 isn't what replaced the Dual shock 2. There was a huge thing about sony not having rumble at launch and for like the first 2 years and them claiming it wasn't needed.
Yeah, and this surely dint have anything to do with the patent-fights going at that time with Immersion, instead Sony chose to take rumble out because of motion control and later introduced it again.[/sarcasm]
The motion control in the Sixaxis proved to be pretty worthless by the way, and in the few instances I had to use them I just wished they would`ve never been added.
 
Nintendo plot next move:
http://gamasutra.com/view/news/30606/Nintendo_To_Release_New_Wii_Remote_Plus.php

Nintendo may soon release a new Wii Remote that has the MotionPlus accessory fully integrated into the controller -- or, that's what a new retail listing would appear to suggest.

"Unfortunately we have nothing to announce on this today," the company has said, declining comment to Edge Online. But a listing from retailer GameStop shows a box shot of first-party title FlingSmash, which clearly advertises that the game comes with "Wii Remote Plus" inside, with a black Wii remote pictured.

It would be a logical move for Nintendo to upgrade its controller. Although the Wii launched in 2006, it wasn't until 2009 that the company released the small MotionPlus hardware accessory, designed to attach to the existing Wii Remote to increase its precision and allow it to detect more detailed movements.
 
The rumble is indeed optional for some games or gamers. It's already taken care off by Move. Use the light ball for visual feedback if you don't want rumble. In Resistance 2, I turned rumble off because the hit rumble would mess up my grip. I held the controller + sticks too tight and triggered the zoom function, followed by instant death.

The second stick is needed for some games. If Sony can magically add it without complicating the whole controller, then Move + 2nd stick = Move + DS3 (rumble on) + SIXAXIS (rumble off). Sony will have to clear all the DualShock inventory in the channel though.

Just add an analog nub to the wand and voila, all done. All you'll ever need is 2x Move wands then.

Regards,
SB
 
I think Arwin likes the 2 Move controllers default bundle too. It's probably the most versatile setup for Move right now. Add an analog stick and it is supremely versatile.

Many games play better with double hand hold (for stability). I guess that's why Wii has a separate traditional pad. The navcon is undervalued because it's awkward to execute complex move with a single hand. If you hold it horizontally with both hands, it's more comfortable and familiar to use. The problem is it's missing half the buttons. :devilish:

Fighting games is still best done with the fight stick or DS3, just like aviation game is best played with flight stick, and driving games with steeling wheel.
 
Fighting games is still best done with the fight stick or DS3, just like aviation game is best played with flight stick, and driving games with steeling wheel.

Obviously depends on your definition of fighting games. You could argue that tennis should be played with an analog dial, because that's the best way to play pong.
 
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