I dunno , the game isn't out yet from what i understand , kinda hard to throw stones when the glass isn't up yet.
I dunno but this is coming from a guy who got pink eye from using the wii..... So no controllers for party games is good for me !
The non-standard game interfaces discussion thread (move, voice, vitality, etc.)
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I dunno , the game isn't out yet from what i understand , kinda hard to throw stones when the glass isn't up yet.
I dunno but this is coming from a guy who got pink eye from using the wii..... So no controllers for party games is good for me !
Rabid's evaluating what he's seen, not "throwing stones". That video clip shows zero gameplay, so it's perfectly valid to call it out as dull at this point.
Ignoring that, how is the camera being controlled? Left arm position? No, that doesn't reflect camera changes. The left hand is shaped that it could be holding a 'nunchuck' type conttroller, but it must be pretty tiny if he is! Also the green band on the right arm - is that just because he's labelled a visitor, or is that a tracking measure? I presume the former.
Billy Idol
Legend
I wonder if they ever will get the lag in kinect under control:
http://www.gamersyde.com/stream_child_of_eden_tgs_stage_demo-17119_en.html
http://www.gamersyde.com/stream_child_of_eden_tgs_stage_demo-17119_en.html
There is aiming it just doesnt work 100%
http://www.dealspwn.com/harry-potter-kinect-handson-preview-accio-game/
This backs up what Ive been saying all along, trying to do normal (non party/fitness) games with this is gonna be nigh on impossible without a controller, having something that only works some of the time is just gonna piss the user off
you're still not getting it (I thought everyone understood this by now?), yes this will be nice if it worked 100% but as lotsa videos have shown this is just a pipedream, perhaps kinect2 (with better hardware) with the xbox3 + with a single handed controller you'll be able to do an approximation but at the current state
Seems a bit rude to be making pronouncements about what can and can't be done using what appears to be a last minute hackish addition to a game as your proof.There is aiming it just doesnt work 100%
http://www.dealspwn.com/harry-potter-kinect-handson-preview-accio-game/
This backs up what Ive been saying all along, trying to do normal (non party/fitness) games with this is gonna be nigh on impossible without a controller, having something that only works some of the time is just gonna piss the user off
you're still not getting it (I thought everyone understood this by now?), yes this will be nice if it worked 100% but as lotsa videos have shown this is just a pipedream, perhaps kinect2 (with better hardware) with the xbox3 + with a single handed controller you'll be able to do an approximation but at the current state
Developers have had the final version of the hardware and software for months, not years, and the stuff they've come up with is already impressive.
Compare the launch titles for the 360 with the titles today to see how familiarity and time makes a difference. (I tried playing Oblivion again recently.. facial animation has come a _long_ way...)
DonaldDuck
Newcomer
One thing that shakes me is that apparently we have not taken into consideration the big clue about people´s mind that Wii has given to us. I know that this thread is about technical considerations, but I think that being so worried about concepts as "precision" or "lag" is making us forget that the big spot here is marketing, and the expectations that new controllers can generate. And I think that the two new offerings have really different focus, just like we have here. Our approach couldn´t be the best from a strategical point of view, always from a company perspective.
Sony seems to be (once again) all about technology, "high" specs and some delicate effort put into hardware detail, even to the point of forgetting bundle any kind of killer app with the controller and making an aggresive marketing campaign.
Microsoft is apparently confident showing a product that may be a bit in the inmature side of things, but the effort in marketing and "mind share" it´s, and of sure will be, huge.
The problem is, again, what´s a good product, the one with the highest specs or the one that brings absurd amounts of money to your company, being "fine tunned" or not technically speaking?
In one word: I believe that Microsoft will obliterate the market this holidays, being Kinect ultra-precise or not. The focus is right and Dance Central really seems to be something that will sell the hardware, and that´s enough, being the rest a bit of overengineering.
It could be that Sony really has spent their money in technology and they haven´t founds to answer the blitz marketing campaign from Microsoft. But the different approach that both companies have in relation to their products surprises me, mainly due to the previous experience, not only with Wii, but with the (probably) premature start of XBOX360, with the known refrigeration problems and so on. Starting first was really decisive.
From an engineer perspective the emphasis in making the product ultra-robust and with a superb response is more than noble, it´s an objective and a of course (if you love your job) a pleasure. But the product manager can think different, and have other priorities. And at the end the system of reference is money, budgeting and salaries...
Regards.
Sony seems to be (once again) all about technology, "high" specs and some delicate effort put into hardware detail, even to the point of forgetting bundle any kind of killer app with the controller and making an aggresive marketing campaign.
Microsoft is apparently confident showing a product that may be a bit in the inmature side of things, but the effort in marketing and "mind share" it´s, and of sure will be, huge.
The problem is, again, what´s a good product, the one with the highest specs or the one that brings absurd amounts of money to your company, being "fine tunned" or not technically speaking?
In one word: I believe that Microsoft will obliterate the market this holidays, being Kinect ultra-precise or not. The focus is right and Dance Central really seems to be something that will sell the hardware, and that´s enough, being the rest a bit of overengineering.
It could be that Sony really has spent their money in technology and they haven´t founds to answer the blitz marketing campaign from Microsoft. But the different approach that both companies have in relation to their products surprises me, mainly due to the previous experience, not only with Wii, but with the (probably) premature start of XBOX360, with the known refrigeration problems and so on. Starting first was really decisive.
From an engineer perspective the emphasis in making the product ultra-robust and with a superb response is more than noble, it´s an objective and a of course (if you love your job) a pleasure. But the product manager can think different, and have other priorities. And at the end the system of reference is money, budgeting and salaries...
Regards.
Lots of good Move deals in the UK at present, especially for those who do not yet have a PS3. It's basically being "given away" in places such as Argos and Game when you buy a new 320GB PS3, as well as places like Game doing some decent Move+game bundles, with the total price being slightly above the price of the game on its own.
Prophecy2k
Veteran
I don't think it's invalid to make the observation (i didn't see it as a pronouncement) based off many different videos, as well as Microsoft's own E3 conference, that the techonology behind Kinect is very immature and IMHO isn't really ready for retail. The product could really have done with a good six to twleve months more in development to iron out all the issues. It was microsoft that decided against that and wanted to rush the thing to market (in order to try and counter Sony with the MOVE imho).
I don't think we as consumers, seeing the blatant evidence of Kinect's inadequacies, should decide not to talk about them because of how they may or may not affect MS' ability to sell an immature product. This says nothing about the developers who have spent their time and money making software for the device, but more about MS' own executive decisions in the process of Kinect's product development.
So far I'm inclined to agree with bkilian, that Kinect presents developers with far too many limitations in the development of software for the device. The whole "hands-free" gaming premise is a nice idea on paper, and probably also appealing in the minds of the casual gaming audience and reachable non-gamer consumerbase. However the current implimentation with Kinect has shown itself to be prevailingly limiting, allowing for far too narrow a scope for game development.
As it stands the only genres that seem to work are dance/fitness games, party/mini-games etc... Forcing developers to effectively "make-up" new game genres outside those and the traditional (and ostensibly lucrative) game genres (which would require far to contrived a control scheme to work, based on technology limitations) is never a great platform model.
Developers should be given the freedom to do what they've done and do well (i.e. traditional games). They should also be equiped by the technology to innovate and go further, doing things there were unable to do before with traditional controls, but reliably and with enough precision that the control input technology doesn't limit the game designer, rather gives him tonnes more options.
Right now i see Kinect more like the guitars used for Rock Band and Guitar Hero games, only with a slightly less narrow scope than those. Still to me it is a narrow scoped product only really useful in a very limited number of applications, especially for the price their asking for it.
But for Microsoft, the big dance/fitness/party market may be enough though. Everything else it can then be used for may well be a big bonus. And they can always add buttons later.
There are more than technologies in Sony's Move launch. Some of the games delivered on the promises of motion gaming. Unfortunately, this is where it stops. The management does not seem to have a vision for Move. There is no "fresh" experiences to excite the consumers. There is no unifying concepts to simplify and highlight the user experiences (like what Jobs did with Mac OSX Aqua, iPhone UI).
They seem to be happy selling to core gamers and then rely on word of mouth to spread the product. That's it. They have and will have marketing at the regional level (close to the shopping season), but not to the scale of what Microsoft will be doing.
May be along the way, the momentum will convince more developers to hop on board.
Dr. Marks talks more about Move, after launch, and Kinect:
http://www.next-gen.biz/features/designing-playstation-move
Compared to MS's "vision marketing" approach, Sony is letting the developers discover Move over time.
Personally, the most surprising aspect of Move for me is its versatility. Sports Champions' tracking didn't quite surprise me coz I have played WiiSports Resort; although this is one step up, it's pretty much the same game, same rules. Ruse overwhelmed me because the RTS controls are complex. EyePet frustrated me because of camera work (Have not tried sketch recognition). Tumble demo tinkles my imagination in 3D gaming a little. But when I tried Move for MAG, I was a little shocked at its sensitivity (Had to hold controller with 2 hands initially). I remember thinking to myself, "Cr*p, this thing can take a full range of input !".
In a way, Dr. Marks is correct to say that the developers have to internalize Move before they can design more interesting games. But I have to wonder, since Sony is the first party who _grasp_ the potential, where is Sony's output ? The sketch recognition got buried under a kid's game, the versatility didn't apply to XMB, web browser, and other non-games, etc., the tech demoes went no where.
http://www.next-gen.biz/features/designing-playstation-move
Compared to MS's "vision marketing" approach, Sony is letting the developers discover Move over time.
Personally, the most surprising aspect of Move for me is its versatility. Sports Champions' tracking didn't quite surprise me coz I have played WiiSports Resort; although this is one step up, it's pretty much the same game, same rules. Ruse overwhelmed me because the RTS controls are complex. EyePet frustrated me because of camera work (Have not tried sketch recognition). Tumble demo tinkles my imagination in 3D gaming a little. But when I tried Move for MAG, I was a little shocked at its sensitivity (Had to hold controller with 2 hands initially). I remember thinking to myself, "Cr*p, this thing can take a full range of input !".
In a way, Dr. Marks is correct to say that the developers have to internalize Move before they can design more interesting games. But I have to wonder, since Sony is the first party who _grasp_ the potential, where is Sony's output ? The sketch recognition got buried under a kid's game, the versatility didn't apply to XMB, web browser, and other non-games, etc., the tech demoes went no where.
yep whilst I've always said kinect will only really work for fitness/party games, at the same time Ive always said. That is more than enuf.
Whats the game of this generation?
Its not modern warfare, its wii fit!
20+ million sold at $100+ a pop
Give ppl the idea that by buying this product they can lose the kilo's, then you're onto a surefire winner.
another thing (though wont be so big) is some sort of porn simulator (though can't see MS really pushing this, though they'ld love to have it out there)
yes its obviously not ready based on all the evidence we've seen, but 12 extra months is not gonna help that much since a lot of the issues are the result of the hardware. The tech needs to be an order of magnitude better really (faster fps,higher res etc) but like I said they should still launch, get it out there.
And with the next xbox include kinect2 with a lot of the issues ironed out (+ a one handed controller thrown in
, they'll prolly have a standard controller that u can break into two pieces )upnorthsox
Veteran
Are we really still calling WiiFit a game?
upnorthsox
Veteran
Because it's not.
upnorthsox
Veteran
I've got spider solitare open at the moment, does that make Windows a game?
We went thru the same thing with Wii Play and after the people who put out the game charts realized they got suckered by Nintendo into categorizing it a game instead of a peripheral they couldn't seem to stop.
It's a fitness application, plain and simple. There's no reason to continue a lie just for the sake of it.
We went thru the same thing with Wii Play and after the people who put out the game charts realized they got suckered by Nintendo into categorizing it a game instead of a peripheral they couldn't seem to stop.
It's a fitness application, plain and simple. There's no reason to continue a lie just for the sake of it.
Windows is a gaming platform since it can do more than gaming.
WiiFit is a serious game platform. You can play casual games on it too.
WiiFit is a serious game platform. You can play casual games on it too.
What people are doing is making judgements on the functionality and potential of the product based on the launch titles. I'm just pointing out that by using launch titles (and even more egregiously - Beta videos) to define the inherent technical limitations of the device, you're making a similar mistake as the folks that looked at PGR3 vs GT5 and pronounced that the PS3 would be routinely exceeding the XBox quality within a year of launch.
We're already seeing hints of the second wave of Kinect titles, and as far as I can tell, none of them look like fitness games.
Sure, we probably won't see developers hacking motion controls into their existing titles as often as we appear to be seeing it for the Move, but I consider that a good thing. Why would I want a new peripheral if all it does is let me play existing games? I can already do that. It's the new genres and the interesting possibilities of using your whole body as a controller that draws me in.
We're not "forcing" developers to make up new genres at all. If they want to sit around resting on their laurels and raking in the cash from their Call of Duty clones, there's nothing stopping them from doing that. We're not getting rid of the normal controllers, we're adding a _new_ controller that opens up new genres that the old one could not do. Kinect is designed to get gamers up and moving around, and do it in such a way that they can't "cheat" it like I do with the Wii all the time. It is well suited for games that require motion, which is why we're seeing sports, fitness and dance games. It's not a "final solution" for every game for the rest of eternity. But I'm still sure we're going to be surprised by the range of interactions it will allow us to do once those crafty developers start thinking about it.
Wii Fit is a game. The Wii balance board is a peripheral. There are ski and snowboarding games that use it, as well as a number of others.
It has scores, competitions, achievements and you can cheat it. It's a game
