The non-standard game interfaces discussion thread (move, voice, vitality, etc.)

[Arwin]

Is that the first time Microsoft has said themselves that Kinect can't read fingers? Also interesting to note that it could at the higher resolution.

 

[BadTB25]

I guess that's settled then and I stand corrected.

 

[rabidrabbit]

So, the next xbox will likely have that higher resolution camera.

Meanwhile, Move can apparently be used to control the XMB

It’s worth mentioning that the Move controller quite happily navigates the PS3′s XMB – something we’ve not seen documented before. It uses the internal motion control tech rather than the Eye, mind, you just simply pull the trigger and ‘move’ the controller to browse the rows and columns of the media bar. We’ll have more on this in a future article, though

http://www.thesixthaxis.com/2010/08/10/hands-on-playstation-move/

 

[Rolf N]

... and think that it's a Wii-too.

It's an improvement in so many ways. It's a Wiimote plus a bunch of buttons, plus all the functionality enabled by the camera, plus the soft skills of being on the PS3 platform, namely a much quieter system with much nicer graphics with easy standard access to online play and downloadable games.

No more wires and rechargeable AAs bouncing around is a plus in my book too.

Maybe it would take first-hand exposure (in-store kiosks and such) to truly communicate the advantages to the chavs, but that's not a new challenge.

Core gamers may like precision, but many would be sceptical due to widespread belief that Wii is awkward for core gaming ("Why change when DS3 is not broken ?"). Not to mention some games are said to be laggy, or at least more laggy than DS3.

It's not the Wii per se that's "awkward" for core gaming, just some specific aspects of it. Controls based on gesture recognition (or worse: indiscriminate shaking) are the big issue, and it's the lack of buttons on the Wiimote that necessitates this in the first place. With Move this can easily avoided, and judging by the Kevin Butler spot ("What we here in the future call 'buttons'."), some part of Sony is well aware that this is a strength to be exploited.

Pointer controls on the Wii on the other hand are very effective, especially for fps. When it's implemented well in a game, you can even surpass mouse fluidity, because a)you never have to "lift up" your mouse at the edge of a pad, because there is no absolute movement involved when you want to turn; and b)full analog movement instead of digital WASD. Move should hit a homerun within this genre. Call Of Duty could be a killer app, if it supports Move (and supports it well).

There's also clear potential to make RTS viable on consoles, finally.

 

[Arwin]

Yeah, we've seen it in action in one or two videos also. I think it works pretty nice, whereas patsu doesn't like it ...

 

[patsu]

Is that the first time Microsoft has said themselves that Kinect can't read fingers? Also interesting to note that it could at the higher resolution.

Nah, I remember they mentioned it before. Otherwise, I wouldn't be quite so certain -- especially after looking at their depth camera's snapshot images. I used to think they can do finger recognition too until I saw the final specs. Large-grain hand gestures may still work though (closed fist vs open palm for adults).

Yeah, we've seen it in action in one or two videos also. I think it works pretty nice, whereas patsu doesn't like it ...

The Move + XMB integration ? Yeah, don't think I'll like it based on what we have seen.
The current XMB already supports mouse navigation in the Move sense (I think they are similar but could be wrong). Try it out !

...

I know, I know. But if you're selling a consumer entertainment product and need a wall of text to talk about the difference, it's already a hard sell. Most people can't be bothered with the details. At this very moment, the mainstream consumers have other addictive casual games on the web and phone (They mostly likely won't react to precise controls). The hardcore people may try it out but it will likely take time to spread.

 

[Rolf N]

I know, I know. But if you're selling a consumer entertainment product and need a wall of text to talk about the difference, it's already a hard sell. Most people can't be bothered with the details. At this very moment, the mainstream consumers have other addictive casual games on the web and phone (They mostly likely won't react to precise controls). The hardcore people may try it out but it will likely take time to spread.

Bullet list time:

• Ultra-expressive-technology: harness buttons to make gaem more bring-to-life than nearest competitor
• Exclusive camera streamflow compounds: monitor and improve complexion in augmented real-time-space immersion
• Do-not-get-deaf 2.0: hear something other than a disc spinning in the drive
• Full HD graphics: can fit up to 7x the amount of pins on your bowling alley
• Integrated online stores: buy your gaem direct from the couch, safe from clerk harrassment
• Compete online: smack up old friends, and find new ones when the old ones walk away

See? It's easy

Print that on the box with a few random pictures of happy, attractive people, and it'll fly off the shelves.

 

[Arwin]

The Move + XMB integration ? Yeah, don't think I'll like it based on what we have seen.
The current XMB already supports mouse navigation in the Move sense (I think they are similar but could be wrong). Try it out !

I already have! I liked it!

I know, I know. But if you're selling a consumer entertainment product and need a wall of text to talk about the difference, it's already a hard sell. Most people can't be bothered with the details. At this very moment, the mainstream consumers have other addictive casual games on the web and phone (They mostly likely won't react to precise controls). The hardcore people may try it out but it will likely take time to spread.

The augmented reality stuff is easy enough to market. The precise 1-to-1 also, and the combination of how the two are linked. Body tracking is a little harder and may not be that important, but you could add it for games that benefit. I don't think they need that much more - for the rest it is about the games.

 

[dumbo11]

Is that the first time Microsoft has said themselves that Kinect can't read fingers? Also interesting to note that it could at the higher resolution.

I think people are getting hung up on journalist's commentary, and I think he's put 2+2 together and made 4.5:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-kinect-spec-blog-entry

In our gamescom demo, presumably using something closer to the original reference design, Kudo Tsunoda expressed reservations that hand and finger tracking would work consistently with the camera simply because human beings come in all different sorts of shapes and sizes. There would be no way to ensure accurate tracking of a child's fingers, for example.

Therefore, for the sake of reliability, the emphasis would shift to tracking the whole body and at that point the need for the VGA depth map was less apparent, although clearly tracking more subtle movements does become more challenging. The lower-resolution depth map also reduces the amount of data being beamed across USB, and decreases processing overhead too.

i.e. the resolution was kept 'high' mostly to try detecting fingers, when they discovered that fingers could not be tracked reliably at that resolution, the developers downgraded to a lower resolution. (my own guess it that the system can still provide the VGA-quality image, but downgrading that to 320x240 is a better trade-off for the 360 interface).

 

[Crossbar]

Bullet list time:

• Ultra-expressive-technology: harness buttons to make gaem more bring-to-life than nearest competitor
• Exclusive camera streamflow compounds: monitor and improve complexion in augmented real-time-space immersion
• Do-not-get-deaf 2.0: hear something other than a disc spinning in the drive
• Full HD graphics: can fit up to 7x the amount of pins on your bowling alley
• Integrated online stores: buy your gaem direct from the couch, safe from clerk harrassment
• Compete online: smack up old friends, and find new ones when the old ones walk away

See? It's easy

Print that on the box with a few random pictures of happy, attractive people, and it'll fly off the shelves.

I don´t know, I am not convinced. I like Microsofts slogan: "You are the controller". Easy to understand and catchy.

I still think one of the strongest selling points of the PS3 to the casual crowd besides being a HD console is "Plays Blu-Ray discs". Easy to understand and Blu-Ray has a mysterious touch.

I don´t know what the partnership with CocaCola will bring to the table. "Move is it" ?
Does anyone know if Move has an established slogan yet?

 

[Rolf N]

How about "Your hand is the controller"?

 

[Crossbar]

How about "Your hand is the controller"?

Hmm, not really accurate though. Should be more like "The Move wand is the controller". Not that catchy though.

It´s quite easy to come up with some witty slogan including the word Move, but I find it a bit hard to find one that speaks equally well to both the casual and the core crowd. You don´t want a slogan that could possibly alienate either one.

Microsofts slogan is very well crafted. It does not scream "gesture gaming", it makes it sound like some sophisticated future tech, bypassing that old limited physical controller thingy.

 

[AzBat]

I think people are getting hung up on journalist's commentary, and I think he's put 2+2 together and made 4.5:

I agree about the commentary. Microsoft official statement to Kotaku is only that Kinect shipping in November doesn't read sign language. The rest of it is from an "unnamed source" & that's where they made their deduction. I don't disagree that they're right. We pretty much decided that a couple of months ago. So this latest revelation is no big surprise. I suspect there are a variety of factors leading to downgrading the depth resolution. Those are just a couple of them.

Tommy McClain

 

[patsu]

Bullet list time

Wii didn't need a front-and-center bullet list like that.
The only things I can vaguely remember are the tag line "Wii would like to play" and the great WiiSport TV ad.

I already have! I liked it!

[head explode]

I dunno. Game press should invite a UI guru to analyze PS Move's XMB interface.

EDIT: The more I watch the EyeToy Kinetic video, the more I want Sony to re-release a PS3 version and mix in PS Move mini-games.

 

[rabidrabbit]

Is that the first time Microsoft has said themselves that Kinect can't read fingers? Also interesting to note that it could at the higher resolution.

Then how about facial recognition? Is the resolution high enough for that? I think at E3 they advertised it as one of the features, but if it can't read fingers, can it read features of your face, as they can be even smaller in size

 

[goonergaz]

How about "Your hand is the controller"?

"Move into the game"

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Then how about facial recognition? Is the resolution high enough for that? I think at E3 they advertised it as one of the features, but if it can't read fingers, can it read features of your face, as they can be even smaller in size

Facial recognition is more about the distance between features. find the centre of the eyes, nose and corners of the mouth, measure those distance between points, and that gives you a map, sort of thing. That'll work at reasonable distance. It depends what they mean by facial recognition!

 

[Crossbar]

"Move into the game"

That´s a good one. I was thinking along:

"Let the game Move you" or "Get Moved by the game" but your one is much better.

 

[upnorthsox]

Wii didn't need a front-and-center bullet list like that.
The only things I can vaguely remember are the tag line "Wii would like to play" and the great WiiSport TV ad.




[head explode]

I dunno. Game press should invite a UI guru to analyze PS Move's XMB interface.

EDIT: The more I watch the EyeToy Kinetic video, the more I want Sony to re-release a PS3 version and mix in PS Move mini-games.

So for weeks you've raged about how they're being too technical about Move and now you want them to bring out a UI guru to do a technical analysis?????

 

[patsu]

So for weeks you've raged about how they're being too technical about Move and now you want them to bring out a UI guru to do a technical analysis?????

Sony was being too technical communicating the benefits of Move.

A good UI guy brings the product experience closer (more friendly) to the user.

They are 2 different things altogether.