The non-standard game interfaces discussion thread (move, voice, vitality, etc.)

Discussion in 'Console Industry' started by patsu, Jun 19, 2010.

  1. Arwin

    Arwin Now Officially a Top 10 Poster
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    Well, ok, but maybe not the hardware guys, at least. The software, marketing and strategy guys, yes. ;)

    This I imagine will be partly influenced by the success of the Move controller (and their family on competing platforms). I wouldn't want to speculate about the PS4 controller at this point.


    ... unless you bought it in a bundle with EyePet or Eye of Judgment, yes (for me the latter).

    ... while I fully sympathise with the feeling, it's a lousy bundle if it's not cheaper than its parts sold separately.

    Agreed, and fortunately that is me - Eye of Judgment, Singstar, LBP, Burnout Paradise (and later Buzz), the PSN PS Eye titles, EyeCreate, Zen Pinball's video chat, some of those are minor things but still fun.

    I'm still pleased that I can go out and buy a single Move controller, and have it work by way of patch with games like Hustle Kings, Velocity Bowling and EyePet at no additional cost - the 45 euro is all I need. In that respect, I still feel rewarded - otherwise it would have cost me 65 euro for the PS Eye + Move controller bundle. Compare this to Microsoft, where if you bought the old Vision camera, you can throw that one in the trashbin.

    Very true. Kinect buyers beware. ;)
     
  2. Weaste

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    Anyone else surprised that they haven't announced an official USB master Bluetooth dongle yet? If you want the full setup and don't want the hassle of re-syncing everything all of the time, surely the PS3 could handle 2 DS3s, the BD controller, 4 moves, and then let the dongle handle the sub-controllers and still have 3 slots for whatever else. Or whatever configuration you wanted to place them in.
     
  3. Arwin

    Arwin Now Officially a Top 10 Poster
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    I don't think blutooth necessarily requires you to resynch everything all the time? As far as I remember you can register a tonne of devices on it, just only use 7 of them at the same time. I could be wrong though.
     
  4. AzBat

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    The Mall of America Kinect kiosk is part of a larger exhibition called the Kinect Experience Mobile Demo Tour. Over the next 14 weeks they will be visiting 31 cities across the US & Vancouver, BC.

    Code:
    Kinect Experience Mobile Demo Tour (Dates subject to change)			
    			
    East Coast			
    July 17–18	Manhattan	NY	Macy’s
    July 20–22	East Falmouth	MA	Barnstable County Fair
    July 24–25	Manhattan	NY	Seaport-Lower Manhattan Entertainment Area
    July 28–Aug. 1	Washington	DC	Six Flags America
    Aug. 4–6	Canton		OH	Football Hall of Fame – Rib Burnoff
    Aug. 7–8	Canton		OH	Football Hall of Fame Festival Weekend
    Aug. 11–15	Chicago		IL	Air Show/Navy Pier
    Aug. 19–21	Detroit		MI	Woodward Dream Cruise – Auto Festival
    Aug. 26–30	St. Paul	MN	Minnesota State Fair
    Aug. 30–Oct. 24	Tampa		FL	Westfield Citrus Park Shopping Mall
    Sept. 3–6	Indianapolis	IN	Rib America Festival
    Sept. 10–13	Nashville	TN	Tennessee State Fair
    Sept. 15–16	Atlanta		GA	Atlantic Station – Entertainment Plaza
    Sept. 18–19	Atlanta		GA	Atlanta Arts Festival
    Sept. 23–26	Charlotte	NC	Festival in the Park
    Oct. 1–2	Orlando		FL	Disney Wine and Dine Marathon
    Oct. 8–10	Valdosta	GA	Wild Adventures Theme Park
    Oct. 14–17	Dallas		TX	Texas State Fair
    Oct. 21–24	Shreveport	LA	Louisiana State Fair
    			
    West Coast			
    July 15–Aug. 22	Minneapolis	MN	Mall of America
    July 25–26	San Diego	CA	Youth Surf Cup – Soccer
    July 28–Aug. 1	Sacramento	CA	California State Fair
    Aug. 6–8	Portland	OR	Bite of Oregon Food Festival
    Aug.10–11	Seattle		WA	Woodland Park Zoo
    Aug. 13–15	Seattle		WA	Taste of Edmonds – Food Festival
    Aug. 19–22	Vancouver	BC	Summerfest
    Aug. 27–Sept. 1	Pueblo		CO	Colorado State Fair
    Sept. 3–6	Denver		CO	Elitch Gardens
    Sept. 9–12	Albuquerque	NM	New Mexico State Fair
    Sept. 16–19	Salt Lake City	UT	Utah State Fair
    Sept. 24–26	Los Angeles	CA	Universal City Walk
    Oct. 1–3	San Diego	CA	Miramar Air Fest
    Oct. 7–11	San Francisco	CA	Fleet Week – Military Ship and Air Festival
    Oct. 15–17	Phoenix		AZ	Arizona State Fair
    Oct. 20–24	Las Vegas	NV	PBR World Finals
    
    You'll be able to play Adventures, Dance Central, Joy Ride, Kinectimals and Sports. You'll be able to share photos & video of your experience through Facebook & other social networking sites by visiting...

    http://www.kinect.me/

    Soure: Press Release

    Man, they're getting serious. This could be the biggest thing for Microsoft. Just hope it's not the biggest flop.

    Tommy McClain
     
  5. Silent_Buddha

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    Ah that makes more sense now as to why they are starting the push now. So basically 2 mobile kiosks attempting to reach as many people in as many places as possible in NA.

    Is there anything similar going on for Europe? Or is MS only pushing this in the US?

    Regards,
    SB
     
  6. AzBat

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    People in Europe need to not get their hopes up. Press release says "will roll out to additional markets by the end of the year". They should be used to it since Xbox is a uniquely American product. So they're never going to give their products the same attention as it does in the US. Mind you that I think that's been a bad plan all along, but time & time again Microsoft has shown that if you're not in the US they're not that interested promoting to you.

    Tommy McClain
     
  7. Weaste

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    If I have 2 DS3s, 4 wands, 4 sub controllers, a BD controller, something isn't going to work when it should when you want it to. The BD controller didn't even work with Vidzone!
     
  8. Silent_Buddha

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    I'm not so sure about that. There were quite a few "gala" events in Europe for the X360 launch. They went the whole nine yards and then some in France for instance, although it was a bit of a dud there. France just doesn't seem to like MS. :p

    I haven't paid much attention to how MS promotes X360 related stuff in Europe since then however. So that may have just been a outlier.

    A bit of a missed opportunity if they don't push Kinect in Europe though. Although I suppose if they feel they are going to sell out of Kinects in the US, they may not want to hype it too much in other territories until see how it's received here.

    Regards,
    SB
     
  9. Prophecy2k

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    Well the US is MS' biggest territory so it makes sense for them to really push it big over there...

    At the same time a much greater percentage of their current installed base is out there too and so i do think they're (or should be) really concerned with getting Kinect units into homes with a 360 already present, especially given the tremendously large price of the camera unit.

    I personally think they dropped the ball so far, as it seems that they only care exclusively about the casual, family audience in targetting them with Kinect, however if they knew the device was going to cost so much they should have had cast their net a lot wider to try and appeal to all different types of gamer and non-gamer with the device.

    This is something that i think Sony has done better at so far, but even they can do with some work really pushing their device on the more casual gamer & non-gamer side...
     
  10. Arwin

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    From another discussion thread:

    Knowing the prices of all three now, I'm really curious as to how things will unfold. I think all three motion controls will co-exist easily. It's very clear (to me anyway) that on the PS3 the Move will have an opportunity to get a better installbase among existing PS3 owners:

    - the cost of entry is low enough (basically the price of a game or less)
    - with ample support in games that people will already have (the Hustle Kings, Velocity Bowling, EyePets and Heavy Rains of this world)
    - or would be getting anyway (the LBP2s, Killzone 3s and Socom 4s of this world).
    - there is also a definite group of PS3 owners that have been considering or would be considering getting a Wii for the children that can now opt to get Move controllers instead (I personally know a few of these here at work).

    Then there are new more hardcore gaming experiences that will have PC games do better on the PS3 than before - people like the Gamers with Jobs cast who want to play RUSE but refuse to support Ubisoft's always online DRM, and could opt to play the PS3 version with Move instead (I listened to their podcast this morning - they don't know yet that RUSE supports Move, so I'll be interested to hear their opinions once they find out. ;) ).

    Microsoft however seems to be aiming its arrows more clearly at winning new customers and existing Wii owners. For this, it was important to get a bundle out that was under the $300 mark. In that respect, they succeeded.

    In the process, I think they'll still have a pretty big acceptance rate among their existing install-base, because

    - people who are currently 360 only will prefer to get Kinect and a few games rather than invest in a new system altogether. It is both cheaper and more convenient.
    - Kinect fills a huge void in the 360's game library that Microsoft so far has been very unsuccessful at filling.

    It will be interesting to see where this goes. I think that the PS3 has potential in winning over some current 360 owners, particularly if Move proves to be a cool new way to do FPS games, RTS games, and other type of games where the mouse has been good or better than analog sticks. Overall though, Motion controls may not end up mattering that much for the battle of the HD consoles.

    The Wii market though is another question. The Wii market is at a point in which a next generation would have been acceptable to many. The PS3 and 360, when enhanced with motion controls, are definitely capable of acting as the next-gen for Wii owners.

    All that the Wii has to rely on now is its current set of games, and its price. In terms of price, it is still in a strong position. Sure, the PS3 is great value for 399 in that it basically has anything you'd ever want in there by default, but it's still twice of the level of entry for the Wii. That's going to be a barrier, and Sony will have to work hard on getting the price of their PS3 Move bundle down to sub 300 (whether euro or dollar) levels. The 360 is in a better position here, obviously. Again, yes, for the difference with the PS3 you get a harddrive, a bluray player, and free online play, which seems well worth it, but each consumer has its own price barrier and there will be a significantly larger portion of buyers at 300 than at 400.

    As for the games, Microsoft is in a more difficult position. For a number of key game genres, the 360's Kinect offerings are a step up. These are important genres, like Fitness and Dance. For everything else that uses motion control though, Kinect has issues or is downright less suitable. The PS3 on the other hand is either equal or a clear step up from the Wii for basically all genres that cover the Wii, whether it is augmented reality in Party games, 1 to 1 control in Wii Motion+ type games, pointer functionality, the PS3 is clearly better, and in all other areas (all Wii non-Motion+ games) at the very least equal. The PS3 also has a pretty decent library of games that can appeal to casuals, and has the advantage of having free online as well as HD graphics etc. The PS3 will also benefit from games being able to target both Wii and PS3 in terms of controls.

    However, the Wii still has great games, and certainly in the casual and family space they are still pretty comfortable with brands that are well engrained in the target audience through both their handheld and their home console.

    In the end, I don't know if we'll see a lot of movement, but I do expect a lot more pressure on the Wii regardless. However, it will be interesting to see whether that pressure will be visible already this year, or whether it will take longer to become visible. For Nintendo right now it matters little - they have the 3DS coming, and even if Wii stopped selling altogether they would be fine. Their biggest challenge in that respect is coming up with a good successor to the Wii that can hold off the PS3/360.
     
  11. patsu

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    Does the BD controller work with Youtube ? I suspect it's a higher level issue.

    Nonetheless, Sony does need to work out a seamless controller scheme since the DS3 can replace the sub controller. The Move controller should take precedence over the sub controller.
     
  12. Squilliam

    Squilliam Beyond3d isn't defined yet
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    They would be buying a motion controller for ~80-130 (depending) to play the same games they already have with a different controller. Theres nothing which they cannot play really without the DS3. So the real question is how much people actually value the controller as a games interface over the traditional controller. Beyond that, the Wii has implied that simply tacking on Wii controls to a traditional game hasn't gone down well for the Wii market so it may not work as well for the PS3 either. Furthermore the PS3 with Move simply doesn't have the library of motion control games, their children will still be better off most likely with a Wii which can be attached to a secondary TV and has the far greater library than they will be with Move.

    I don't think a RTS is going to be a killer app for Move, whatever happens! :wink:

    I don't really think so at this point. Its a $400 cost right up front for a marginally different / could be considererd better experience. The hardcore are already owning most/all systems by now so I don't really see their position changing whilst the core market probably isn't looking to go anywhere especially as online becomes more important playing on the PS3 may be worse for a core gamer as they wouldn't have their friends on PSN.

    Games and experience! The greatest draw for people to the Nintendo Wii are the games and the experience. The novelty of motion controls has started to wear out its welcome. Sony has neither the library or the ability to make games which appeal to Nintendos expanded market demographic. Sony developers tend to make games for themselves or the core market typically whereas Nintendo makes them for a wider audience. Nintendo has 37 of the top 50 selling games of all time which is something that noone can currently compete with. Theres no next gen Wii without Nintendo games, so whenever the Wii 2 gets released they will jump ship there.

    Kinect has the one advantage of not doubling up on capability which is already present in the standard controller. Everything Kinect does the controller does badly whereas Move is simply a new way to cut the same cake based upon the current library releasing in 2010. So not being good at something which the controller already does more than adequately isn't a significant black mark against the interface.

    Being technically better as an interface is only a major draw if technical problems are limiting the enjoyment of the current Wii interface. Beyond that core games haven't been proved to really excel yet on motion controls if you take the Wii example in terms of what sells to that audience. Also I have never seen augmented reality take off in terms of being a major driver of sales. Sony seems to think its appealing but I haven't seen any data to indicate that its giving the market what it wants.

    The sales of consoles since the Xbox 360 launched go like this:

    1. Wii.
    2. PS2.
    3. Xbox 360.
    4. PS3.

    So being technically better hasn't really resonated with the market and the market leaders for this generation are two previous generation designs and the technically best console is also technically dead last.

    If the Wiis sales are starting to decline then it could also indicate that the current market is past the point of saturation. I wouldn't state with any confidence that either Kinect or Move would dent the sales of the Wii in the short term as they simply don't reflect the same games/values of the target audience which the Wii possesses. If the Wii is starting to decline then its going to be a problem for any console trying to parrot them as they would be late entrants to a declining market. Beyond that it also brings out the possibility that a Wii 2 is coming to the market in short order which is more problematic for Microsoft and Sony because it could just as easily threaten their core markets at the same time as they start introducing their own console owners to the concept of motion controls.
     
  13. tha_con

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    This is the only part I care to respond to, so here I go!

    If you don't think Augmented Reality can take off, or if the market wants it, then why even show any interest in Kinect, which is essentially a way to "augment" your reality? I mean, you're putting yourself (your movements) into the game. It IS augmented reality by definition.
     
  14. Squilliam

    Squilliam Beyond3d isn't defined yet
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    I was talking in the context of something like Eyepet where the augmented reality invades a representation of your own living space. Essentially being a mirror except for the fact that your living room in the reflection is shown to have a creature in it. Whereas with Kinect I have not seen anything attempting to augment reality in that way.
     
  15. tha_con

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    Eh, I think that's semantics. I mean, the Ubisoft Fitness game shows an actual 3D representation of you (down to your sweater) and mimics your each and every move. Essentially a ton of the Kinect Games are extremely similar to the original PS2 EyeToy games, with the exception that they have replaced your living room with a 3D rendered world, and your body with an avatar. The gameplay, however, is largely similar for games Kinect Adventures, even Child of Eden.
     
  16. Shifty Geezer

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    Change Squilliam's use of 'augmented reality' to 'virtual pets and objects' and you'll have the distinction you want.
     
  17. Shifty Geezer

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    Comparing poll results, the real info (which let's be honest, we knew anyway!) was pretty much all PS3 owners interested in Move are interested for their own uses as well as maybe family, whereas with Kinect, a fair proportion aren't interested themselves but do see the value in the 'other' game experience for their families.

    Now we need someone to repeat the poll in a non-gamer forum to see what proportion of mums are interested in the platforms for themselves versus them and their gaming hubbies.
     
  18. Arwin

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    The important difference can simply be made at a technical level. There is inherently nothing stopping Microsoft to create Kinect games with augmented reality. However, there are some technical limitations that may prevent a certain category of augmented reality games, and that's lag.

    For instance, the Start the Party you see various tools and implements overlayed over the Move controller in realtime. This is very lag intolerant however. The Move is fast enough so that you cannot move your hand fast enough to lose the augmented reality overlay. Any lag in the system will become very apparent, and people who get the game who have very slow TVs will probably already be slightly annoyed. On Kinect, which has, without discussing the amount of lag exactly right here and now, very certainly more lag, doing this will be more difficult to hide if you combine controlling something on-screen with a magic mirror. I'm not saying they may not be able to find a satisfying solution for it at some point, but I think that so far they clearly haven't, or we would definitely have seen something like that.

    In fact, right now it is not even clear that Kinect could record / display video at the same time as doing full-body recognition. Although I'm not sure if I can see any technical limitations that stand in the way, but that doesn't mean there isn't any either of course, I just don't know. Maybe someone else has an idea.

    From all the games I have seen and how they have all sorts of tricks they employ to hide lag, I think that lag is the main issue holding back Augmented reality right now.

    As for definition, Squilliams Kinect examples are more bringing in the player into the computer graphics than bringing computer graphics into reality.
     
  19. Shifty Geezer

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    That Ubisoft fitness game has replaced the blob avatar with the actual player, combing the video stream with the motion tracking.
     
  20. BadTB25

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    I wish it would give you an option of the blob, an avatar or the actual player.
     
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