The Internet was Right: Microsoft admits X360 flaws

[standing ovation]

"Yes, it is true. As part of our standard and ongoing process of analyzing repair data, we recently noticed a higher than usual number of units coming in for repair." – Microsoft spokesperson​

Now that's funny -- not that some nameless figure hid behind the Internet the whole time, but that some of you actually believe it.

Here's a more credible newsbyte.

"After each Xbox 360 rolls off the line, it undergoes two hours or so of automated testing and five minutes of manual testing before being packed into a plane or a 40-foot-long ship’s container. Back at Microsoft’s headquarters in Redmond, Wash., Mr. Holmdahl keeps a database chronicling the genealogy of every Xbox 360, including where it was made and shipped and exactly which parts are in it, so that any problems can be traced quickly." – The Wall Street Journal​

 

[standing ovation]

It could also be that MS chose to use memory that would have otherwise been discarded in order to make more consoles, so the memory could still be at the crux of the hardware issues. Unless they get more specific elsewhere on what the issues were?

You know, it makes cents to manufacture deadbeats (with every intention of fixing them later) rather than stop the entire assembly line just to weed out a few bad apples.

Unfortunately, curing CPUs of dementia wasn't the only crisis.

 

[patsu]

"Yes, it is true. As part of our standard and ongoing process of analyzing repair data, we recently noticed a higher than usual number of units coming in for repair." – Microsoft spokesperson​

Now that's funny -- not that some nameless figure hid behind the Internet the whole time, but that some of you actually believe it.

Here's a more credible newsbyte.

"After each Xbox 360 rolls off the line, it undergoes two hours or so of automated testing and five minutes of manual testing before being packed into a plane or a 40-foot-long ship’s container. Back at Microsoft’s headquarters in Redmond, Wash., Mr. Holmdahl keeps a database chronicling the genealogy of every Xbox 360, including where it was made and shipped and exactly which parts are in it, so that any problems can be traced quickly." – The Wall Street Journal​

I'm afraid I don't understand what you're trying to say. Is the article Sis linked to wrong ?
If they can identify the genealogy of every Xbox 360 quickly via the database, how can they not know about basic indicators such as the defect rate, and only discover the problem recently ?

Hopefully PS3 and Wii will do better at launch. MS seems to time their "higher defect rate" news to minimze its impact.

 

[Guden Oden]

Since there doesn't really seem to be a "problem" specified, nor a specific part that is redesigned, not sure what this "proves".

"Overheating" seems to be the most common complaint

I think it could be much simpler than that. Maybe it's mainly just the cheap-ass crappy DVDROM drives MS yet again decided to grace their early units with; mine has had a CD tray that almost more often than not sticks when closing practically since day one. Didn't they LEARN from that whole thompson drive experience with the initial box? *SIGH*

What part is overheating? Why haven't they redesigned the cooling system or some part of it then?

I suspect much of the overheating stuff is simply user error, people placing the console on carpet or in an enclosure, getting it full of dog/cat hair, etc... Stuff like that. People are idiots after all, and not used to consumer electronics that spew out well over a hundred watts of heat constantly when playing games.

In short, I say the internet was WRONG. And I'm not going to change my mind because of more people on the internet.

Well, you don't really have any fact to disprove "the internet" either, so your hearsay essentially means nothing.

That's alright though, keep going on about your biased ways. I hope to see the same from you should either the Wii or PS3 experience problems.

Maybe you took a wrong turn somewhere and mistook this forum for a fanperson warzone or something... Your post count is unlikely to ever exceed 5 if you keep up this silly nonsense; no need to bring up competing brands in this thread. This is about the 360, nothing else...

 

[standing ovation]

I'm afraid I don't understand what you're trying to say. Is the article Sis linked to wrong ? If they can identify the genealogy of every Xbox 360 quickly via the database, how can they not know about basic indicators such as the defect rate, and only discover the problem recently ?

Exactly! The only thing Microsoft noticed recently was their need to confess. :neutral:

 

[fearsomepirate]

I suspect much of the overheating stuff is simply user error, people placing the console on carpet or in an enclosure, getting it full of dog/cat hair, etc...

Then how come other home electronic devices and video game consoles have been able to survive being in houses with animals and sitting in entertainment centers just fine, some of them for decades? It's MS's own fault if they've designed a home entertainment device that simply cannot live up to the standard set by previous devices.

When your product breaks where similar products stood firm, the fault is the engineering, not the use. Slapping a "Warning! This is fragile junk! You can't use this the way you use anything else like it, or it will break! Store in a special climate-controlled vault and never touch!" label on the machine doesn't negate the fact it was designed poorly.

 

[Acert93]

I'm afraid I don't understand what you're trying to say. Is the article Sis linked to wrong ?
If they can identify the genealogy of every Xbox 360 quickly via the database, how can they not know about basic indicators such as the defect rate, and only discover the problem recently ?

Here is my stab at it: Maybe the "recently" is that as Summer has passed the rate of defective units has not slowed--and maybe even increased, especially in the lots of units sold/manufactured in 2005? The 3-5% could have been "out of the box" defective rate, but the continued breakdown and malfunction of units 6 months (and counting) later defects have appeared that are more significant of a trend. Thus the new extended warranty for 2005 units and noting that recently the defect rate of units has increased instead of leveling out.

I don't have any further information than anyone else, but based on the memory shortages it could very well be that Samsung/et al were verifying memory with razor sharp margins of error, MS used it, and long term more units than expected have broken down than expected.

All conjecture of course, but I think more likely than some of the theories (especially those with more sinister intent... not that you are suggesting such). This is one of those delicate situations, and with 2M units in 2005 and a 5% initial defact rate that is 100k bad units right off the bat. Obviously MS has already had to fend of some crazy theories like 50% defect rate, so how do you approach the issue without lending creedance to the loons? MS made the right step by extending the warranty--on the negative they waited waaaaaaaaay to long. 1yr warranty should be STANDARD anyhow

 

[Rolf N]

VERY nice selective quote!
You forgot to add the rest though.

Upon further investigation, it was further discovered that the bulk of the units were isolated to a group that was part of the initial manufacturing run of the console.

That's alright though, keep going on about your biased ways. I hope to see the same from you should either the Wii or PS3 experience problems.

And what exactly does that add? If the problem is limited to white units manufactured before October 2006, isn't that still the "inital manufacturing run"?

well, we'll just have to wait and see what happens to the other consoles as they are released, wont we?

Nooooo, don't!
I mean, Microsoft is totally normal, industry standard and all, you know. Everyone else will always have the exact same issues as Microsoft. Everyone knows that, right?

If they can identify the genealogy of every Xbox 360 quickly via the database, how can they not know about basic indicators such as the defect rate, and only discover the problem recently ?

Excel?
[/cheap shot]

 

[scooby_dooby]

For the record, my launch day 360 died today.

Well it's not dead, but freezes up in the 1st period every time I try and play NHL 07, still works but is obviously on it's last legs. Better now than a month or two later I guess....

 

[pipo]

VERY nice selective quote!

Upon further investigation, it was further discovered that the bulk of the units were isolated to a group that was part of the initial manufacturing run of the console.

Nice catch.

For the record: mine is still going strong.

 

[SugarCoat]

For the record, my launch day 360 died today.

Well it's not dead, but freezes up in the 1st period every time I try and play NHL 07, still works but is obviously on it's last legs. Better now than a month or two later I guess....

get a crucifix and some holy water, stand over it and chant

"THE POWER OF CHRIST COMPELS YOU"
"THE POWER OF CHRIST COMPELS YOU"


then kick it. See if that helps.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

If they can identify the genealogy of every Xbox 360 quickly via the database, how can they not know about basic indicators such as the defect rate, and only discover the problem recently ?

Perhaps the same way Charles Clarke was aware of aware of a problem of realeasing immigrant criminials into the UK without deportation, but only became "fully aware" months later...

...they knew and didn't want to say to save embrassment.

It's straight marketting. If they've got a higher than average launch defect rate, they don't want to say as they'd turn off customers who'd think 'I'll wait to buy when they've sorted out their problems.' MS needs the install base, so let the sales continue. Now that they've sorted out the hardware, they're probably bound to make a statement because it'd come out in the financials or something, and they need a public statement of support those early adopters to prevent griping on the internet.

That seems the most obvious explanation to me - normal business practice.

 

[patsu]

Right... that seems to be the cleanest explanation. That's why I mentioned:

MS seems to time their "higher defect rate" news to minimze its impact.

Ascert has another possible explanation, but I don't think MS wants to go there (Usually the simpler the explanation, the better).

 

[flf]

Then how come other home electronic devices and video game consoles have been able to survive being in houses with animals and sitting in entertainment centers just fine, some of them for decades?

The same reason a 386 didn't require a heat sink, and 486's did, and pentiums started requiring fans, and now current systems need elaborate cooling with fairly sizable power draw.

The same reason your little brother could chew on a 2600 cartridge and it would still work, and then you had to worry about the little backup battery inside of some cartridges going dead, and then you had to handle discs carefully or they'd get scratched.

The same reason a young guy could tear his car engine apart in shop class and rebuild his hot rod, but new cars require a separate computer to diagnose and tune, and technicians have to go to classes to learn how to service the vehicles.

The same reason that old bakelite phone from ma' bell still works, yet that new 5.8 GHz phone craps out after six months.

The same reason that you once only needed one or two remotes for your entertainment center, and now we have a drawer full of them, and we spend a good chunk of change on a remote that will replace all of our remotes... yet rarely has all the functionality of every button of the remotes it replaces.

Complexity and technology marches on, and we have to educate ourselves and modify our behaviors to incorporate it into our lives, lest we misuse or destroy it and lose our investment of time and money.

 

[Tap In]

The same reason a 386 didn't require a heat sink, and 486's did, and pentiums started requiring fans, and now current systems need elaborate cooling with fairly sizable power draw.

The same reason your little brother could chew on a 2600 cartridge and it would still work, and then you had to worry about the little backup battery inside of some cartridges going dead, and then you had to handle discs carefully or they'd get scratched.

The same reason a young guy could tear his car engine apart in shop class and rebuild his hot rod, but new cars require a separate computer to diagnose and tune, and technicians have to go to classes to learn how to service the vehicles.

The same reason that old bakelite phone from ma' bell still works, yet that new 5.8 GHz phone craps out after six months.

The same reason that you once only needed one or two remotes for your entertainment center, and now we have a drawer full of them, and we spend a good chunk of change on a remote that will replace all of our remotes... yet rarely has all the functionality of every button of the remotes it replaces.

Complexity and technology marches on, and we have to educate ourselves and modify our behaviors to incorporate it into our lives, lest we misuse or destroy it and lose our investment of time and money.

*applause*


well said flf :smile:

 

[Qroach]

My launch Xbox died back in december (the day after Christmas).

 

[22psi]

My launch Xbox died back in december (the day after Christmas).

xbox?

 

[-=P3tRaN=-]

my 360 still goes strong.
I can say with all honesty that its been overworking since that launch day.

I've had a friend of mine replacing his in less than two months.
I was intrigued when he told me that he his 360 freezes after about one hour of gameplay, and I went to his house to check it out.

well, at one point he had put his console on top of a small stack of soft papers. that started out as a temp, but it remained in that spot for a month.
I witnessed that the papers below that 360 where acting as heat concentration, but since the problem sporadically happened even after he put it in a proper place, we decided to give it for replacement.
I guess with all the heat concentration, the m/b layers (sorry, dont know the proper word here) where somehow "baked".
there are videos on the net though, of people without warranties (US only) that found ways to put the m/b in working condition again, by using a heat gun.

anyway, my friend is very happy since then, and he completely understood about misplacing the box on things that concentrate heat.


what I mean is that basic education on handling electronic devices is required.
I am certain that if people would treat 360 like it supposed to be treated, the problematic units would be less than are.

I also like the no questions asked change policy that m$ has. (at least in E.U). I mean, I would argue whether it was a faulty xbox my friend got, or he made it faulty by missusing it..

 

[scooby_dooby]

what I mean is that basic education on handling electronic devices is required.
I am certain that if people would treat 360 like it supposed to be treated, the problematic units would be less than are.

I also like the no questions asked change policy that m$ has. (at least in E.U)

Sure, but they are obviously inherently unreliable. Mine hasn't moved in 8 months, it's on top of my AV rack in open air, the power supply is on hardwood, with plenty of open air around it. It just started to really crap out last week.

 

[crosseye]

The fact will remain at least MS ALWAYS said there would be some defective consoles and they gave you the opportunity to have them repaired.

Show of hands who's PS2s .....ahem....DRE was a figment of our imagination according to Sony.

*raises left hand for PS2 #1*
*raises right hand for PS2 #2*
*enjoys PS2 #3 was fixed for free*