The hardware in Kinect 2.0 looks to be amazing where is the software to show it off?

[Cyan]

I think that when games like Adventure games -say Broken Sword- offer support for Kinect -just imagine having all the interactions and items' name on screen highlighted in green to select them with Kinect-, among other genres, we will see it truly shine provided the Kinect is actually up to the task.

It might well be. For games like those it can enhance the gameplay quite a lot, offering some extra diversity we didn't have til now.

NBA 2k14 for instance let's you use Kinect commands on the fly, and they are quite flexible -there are various ways to pass the ball using Kinect, to an specific player also, say "Pass the ball to Lebron" (there it goes). Best basketball game ever made, btw, and one of the best sports games ever too.

It doesn't, and I never said it did. What's shown isn't at all comparable IMO and I doubt it will be. However, I only said, "Watch the vid," because you assumed it's working at laptop-type distances. If you watch the vid, you wouldn't say that - it's working with its moderate tracking at full TV distance with at least enough accuracy to get some finger-pressing UI interaction.

This video is a good example of that, too.

 

[onQ]

I did, that video has lots of light compared to the situations that kinect has to work in where some people game with very little light, or back light, or lots of other situations. They setup a very controlled single situation and put it on video, big deal. Also his "gesture" is always the same, there's no way to know if it's detecting what his fingers are actually doing or if it's just detecting some kind of change in the hand area and taking that as a click. Heck even the depth demonstation was inaccurate, it was moving in Space Harrier type steps like they were approximating things just by his hand size. They didn't even show if it can track multiple people and gestures. I don't see how this video demonstrates this as being even remotely a challenge to what kinect can do. What they showed seems more applicable to tablets or phone use, not use in game rooms.

Of course that single camera webcam setup isn't going to be a challenge to kinect, kinect also has a HD camera so it would be able to do everything they showed even without it's depth camera.

The thread is asking why isn't Microsoft showing software that really shows off how advance the hardware in the Kinect 2.0 is.


Right now I'm walking away feeling like the end result of all the work that went into the Kinect 2.0 hardware is having a reliable light source & data that's easier to process on the console end but it's also limited by 30FPS.


Being more reliable is a good thing & should make the devs life a lot easier when they are making games knowing that it will work for everyone. So we should see a lot more Kinect games than PlayStation 4 camera games or Webcam games for PC & Tablets but being someone who really like this kinda technology I'm looking for something that really separate Kinect 2.0 from what can be done on the other systems especially since they put more work into the hardware side.

 

[Scott_Arm]

I think that when games like Adventure games -say Broken Sword- offer support for Kinect -just imagine having all the interactions and items' name on screen highlighted in green to select them with Kinect-, among other genres, we will see it truly shine provided the Kinect is actually up to the task.

It might well be. For games like those it can enhance the gameplay quite a lot, offering some extra diversity we didn't have til now.

NBA 2k14 for instance let's you use Kinect commands on the fly, and they are quite flexible -there are various ways to pass the ball using Kinect, to an specific player also, say "Pass the ball to Lebron" (there it goes). Best basketball game ever made, btw, and one of the best sports games ever too.


This video is a good example of that, too.

Did you make that video? This guy seems as overly enthusiastic as you come across in text. I'm really happy with my X1 and I thought that Kinect Rivals demo was pretty good, but this guy looks like he's been chugging Xbox kool-aid all day and chasing it with rails of speed. It's actually not a bad review, but the guy could have dialed it back a notch.

 

[Cyan]

Did you make that video? This guy seems as overly enthusiastic as you come across in text. I'm really happy with my X1 and I thought that Kinect Rivals demo was pretty good, but this guy looks like he's been chugging Xbox kool-aid all day and chasing it with rails of speed. It's actually not a bad review, but the guy could have dialed it back a notch.

Not me, not even close. I watched the video once again -I had only focused on the Kinect gestures part to make a point after reading Shifty's comments- and I agree it is kind of cringe worthy.

I am easy going, yes, and regarding my enthusiasm, well... after months of bad news here and there and reading people -I don't participate in certain places, just read- playing doomsayers and praising the calamities regarding the Xbox One, I have become rather enthusiastic about anything that sounds good to me.

My point of view is that things will calm down over time, although enthusiasm is good. Feeling depressed? Anxious? Tired? Take Brand-n medication, and people will be happy, well-liked, and successful! Side effects included stroke, vomiting, racing heartbeat and sudden death. Just jesting... but natural enthusiasm is not bad.

The guy on the video is mad keen on it, but not my style certainly. I have lived enough experiences, good and really really bad, to know better. I have a timid enthusiast side but sometimes I am apathetic towards certain things, it's past being a simple habit, even.

 

[onQ]

Has Microsoft said anything about Kinect being able to check your temperature or the room temperature with the IR camera?


What made me think of this was something that I seen a few weeks ago when I was watching someone play in the PlayRoom on the PS4. Some people was playing in the PlayRoom and they all had coats on as if it was cold in the house but the crazy thing was the little floating robot was shaking like he was cold & the girl kept asking why he was doing that. I was thinking to myself that's either a glitch or some crazy shit is going on with the PlayStation 4 Camera.

I think it was just a glitch but it made me think about that being a feature that Kinect could do with it's IR camera.

I'm not talking about full Thermal Imaging I'm talking about just being able to use the IR camera as a IR Thermometer.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I think it was just a glitch but it made me think about that being a feature that Kinect could do with it's IR camera.

Unlikely. K2's IR mode works with active IR illumination. It's basically a light source so the camera can see better, only one that's not visible to the human eye. I very much doubt the camera has the sensitivity to read the ambient IR radiation.

 

[onQ]

Unlikely. K2's IR mode works with active IR illumination. It's basically a light source so the camera can see better, only one that's not visible to the human eye. I very much doubt the camera has the sensitivity to read the ambient IR radiation.

IR thermometers only need one pixel (I think ) so I was thinking that maybe the Kinect sensor could use binning to go into a even lower resolution while increasing the sensitivity & maybe even go into a lower frame rate to let in even more IR just for that task.


It was just a crazy thought.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

You might be able to do a long exposure and integrate samples over time for a picture, but it depends on how much IR objects are giving off. If the base IR output is 1/1000th of the intensities the camera is using at 30 fps, you'd need 1000x the exposure to get the same sort of readings, or 33 seconds. Accumulating samples from pixels for a lower resolution image could work, but may also just be accumulating noise. If that can be done, the it seems possible in software to create a lower resolution IR scan as you suggest. If that is possible though, I don't understand why digital cameras don't offer a lower resolution night mode that uses multiple sensor pixels per frame pixel. You could get several stops exposure improvement by dropping resolution, and still get a decent 6x4 glossy print from modern 16 MP sensors.

It'd be very easy to test in software. I might have a go.

 

[blakjedi]

Unlikely. K2's IR mode works with active IR illumination. It's basically a light source so the camera can see better, only one that's not visible to the human eye. I very much doubt the camera has the sensitivity to read the ambient IR radiation.

I forget which mode it was but the Kinect can detect variance in heat signatures throughout a room. A face us red and yellow while a cold coffee table trends toward blue etc...

 

[onQ]

You might be able to do a long exposure and integrate samples over time for a picture, but it depends on how much IR objects are giving off. If the base IR output is 1/1000th of the intensities the camera is using at 30 fps, you'd need 1000x the exposure to get the same sort of readings, or 33 seconds. Accumulating samples from pixels for a lower resolution image could work, but may also just be accumulating noise. If that can be done, the it seems possible in software to create a lower resolution IR scan as you suggest. If that is possible though, I don't understand why digital cameras don't offer a lower resolution night mode that uses multiple sensor pixels per frame pixel. You could get several stops exposure improvement by dropping resolution, and still get a decent 6x4 glossy print from modern 16 MP sensors.

It'd be very easy to test in software. I might have a go.

I think the 1st Kinect camera actually used the technique of binning a higher resolution sensor down to a lower resolution to get more sensitive pixels, wasn't Kinect pixel array actually 1280 x 960 or something like that?


I'm wondering if they used larger pixels this time or if they are still using a higher resolution camera at a low resolution to get pixel clusters with more sensitivity?

If they are using bigger pixels, say 4 micron already they could bin the 512 x 424 array down to 256 x 212 with a 8 micron pixel cluster, but going by the last Kinect I'm guessing that they are already binning from a higher resolution.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I think the 1st Kinect camera actually used the technique of binning a higher resolution sensor down to a lower resolution to get more sensitive pixels, wasn't Kinect pixel array actually 1280 x 960 or something like that?

That was different. They had to read a pattern, and it took several imaging pixels to get one sample of pattern and one depth pixel. So the final depth resolution was lower but not because they were trying to increase sensitivity.

I'm wondering if they used larger pixels this time or if they are still using a higher resolution camera at a low resolution to get pixel clusters with more sensitivity?

Almost inevitably lower resolution pixels as the TOF cameras work AFAIK by a single sample per pixel.

 

[LightHeaven]

I'm not saying that the IR camera isn't good enough to do facial recognition I just think that the HD 1080P camera is the 1st line of defense compared to the 512 x 424 IR mode when they are doing the facial recognition with the IR camera stepping in to help.

Point taken, that is really a reasonable assumption.

 

[onQ]

The depth capturing from the Hotchips video looks amazing.

at the 1:05:46 mark

 

[LightHeaven]

I know I already posted in here, bt I also want to comment on the OP question:

I don't think saying Kinect has no software to show it off because it lacks a cool tech demo is not fair at all to what they accomplished.

They don't need to have a tech demo to show it, and I'm glad they focusing on letting the actual experience be the show off for this.

Even at launch, I get almost complete voice control for xbone's UI, instant recognition just as I walk into the room, and games are already using it, unobtrusively to actually complement my experience...

In DR3 Kinect tracks the controller, when a zombie is about to grab you you can "shake it off" with the controller... That's kinda of a gimmick, but when you are not expecting to be grabbed, and out of surprise ends up involuntarily getting rid of the zombie you realize how cool it is to have something always tracking you. DR3 also does an amazing job with voice recog... Attracting zombies, issuing orders and whatnot. On a side note, the game also has a pretty fantastic smartglass integration. You receive new missions through it, can see the full map, can mark locations on your game using the app... There's even an item locator which you can use to mark on the in game map nearby items of a specified type.

There's also BF4, a multiplatform game, on launch nevertheless that already uses Kinect to track you when you are playing. I never had to configure or calibrate anything, nor did I need to sit in any different way than I usually do. In fact, I wasn't even aware that this game had Kinect functionality until I was in a vehicle, and turn my head to talk to someone... Then I realized it also tracks your torso inclination and use that as a lean command... And that you can issue voice commands that are much faster than going through the menu (Have to hold RB, and then select the command in a radial menu).

Imo, MS hit a homerun with Kinect and smartglass functionality on xbone. They really augment the experience, in a way that makes it really hard to come back to devices that do not have them, and the best part is: That's just at launch, it will get even better.

 

[zed]

In DR3 Kinect tracks the controller, when a zombie is about to grab you you can "shake it off" with the controller... That's kinda of a gimmick, but when you are not expecting to be grabbed, and out of surprise ends up involuntarily getting rid of the zombie you realize how cool it is to have something always tracking you

I dont know if youre aware the ps3 controller has motion detection in it thus you can use it the same way though its faster/more accurate
ditto BF4 leaning

 

[Cyan]

I know I already posted in here, bt I also want to comment on the OP question:

I don't think saying Kinect has no software to show it off because it lacks a cool tech demo is not fair at all to what they accomplished.

They don't need to have a tech demo to show it, and I'm glad they focusing on letting the actual experience be the show off for this.

Even at launch, I get almost complete voice control for xbone's UI, instant recognition just as I walk into the room, and games are already using it, unobtrusively to actually complement my experience...

In DR3 Kinect tracks the controller, when a zombie is about to grab you you can "shake it off" with the controller... That's kinda of a gimmick, but when you are not expecting to be grabbed, and out of surprise ends up involuntarily getting rid of the zombie you realize how cool it is to have something always tracking you. DR3 also does an amazing job with voice recog... Attracting zombies, issuing orders and whatnot. On a side note, the game also has a pretty fantastic smartglass integration. You receive new missions through it, can see the full map, can mark locations on your game using the app... There's even an item locator which you can use to mark on the in game map nearby items of a specified type.

There's also BF4, a multiplatform game, on launch nevertheless that already uses Kinect to track you when you are playing. I never had to configure or calibrate anything, nor did I need to sit in any different way than I usually do. In fact, I wasn't even aware that this game had Kinect functionality until I was in a vehicle, and turn my head to talk to someone... Then I realized it also tracks your torso inclination and use that as a lean command... And that you can issue voice commands that are much faster than going through the menu (Have to hold RB, and then select the command in a radial menu).

Imo, MS hit a homerun with Kinect and smartglass functionality on xbone. They really augment the experience, in a way that makes it really hard to come back to devices that do not have them, and the best part is: That's just at launch, it will get even better.

There are little glimpses here and there about the functionalities Kinect is going to bring in the future.

I played the Zumba demo yesterday and I didn't have to touch the controller. In fact the game doesn't let me use the controller.

You can navigate the menus by pronouncing the option on screen you want to use. The voice commands worked every single time for me, even saying the names of the demoed songs. "Limbo" and "Born this way".

I tested all the commands I could, 100% voice recognition, at about 2 meters away from the console.

In my opinion, adventure games or a new Age of Empires game could be very original if played on the Xbox One.

p.s. I have gotten a haircut and Xbox One identified me without problems, same whether I use glasses or contact lenses.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

AoE wouldn't work with voice, but with motion controls it may be quite good, with a Minority Report style selection and movement of units. Voice could bring up different management screens or centre of groups by name (eg. Create group "Archers" and group "Knights". Would be easy to match voice to a user recorded name). Having played the similar Under Siege on PS3, I can't say I'm convinced those style games will work well with any interface other than mouse or touchscreen.

 

[onQ]

'What's Inside Xbox One's Kinect Sensor'

 

[Cyan]

AoE wouldn't work with voice, but with motion controls it may be quite good, with a Minority Report style selection and movement of units. Voice could bring up different management screens or centre of groups by name (eg. Create group "Archers" and group "Knights". Would be easy to match voice to a user recorded name). Having played the similar Under Siege on PS3, I can't say I'm convinced those style games will work well with any interface other than mouse or touchscreen.

That's a very very smart idea, Shifty. Just saying Create group Archers, or "Knights", or "Paladins", Create group all military, Create group Choppers (I mean woodcutters), Create group Villagers (say full upgraded Spaniard villagers with Sappings tech , iir the name correctly), Create Group Economy, Create Group Cavalry Archers, etc.

I've played games like Supreme Commander on the Xbox 360. They play well... although it can be quite overwhelming at times. I hope Keyboard + Mouse are supported some time down the road.

OnQ, so it has been finally confirmed that Apple bought Primesense...

Btw, the new Kinect has 128MB of RAM? Why didn't anyone mention that before?

 

[Rangers]

'What's Inside Xbox One's Kinect Sensor'

Seems expensive

Two high quality cameras, multiple daughter boards, high quality large milled aluminum heatsink, fan, 128MB RAM, etc.