The Game Technology discussion thread *Read first post before posting*

[joker454]

@Shifty
This is just one of the few articles, since it was recently written it was easy to find couldn't remember specific details about rest articles


http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-final-fantasy-xiii-face-off?page=2

If its enormous fillrate available either ways then why is the article suggesting that since SE is keeping the framebuffer within the eDRam they should have lots of fillrate at their disposal..?

The high edram bandwidth is always available irregardless of tiling.

 

[nightshade]

The high edram bandwidth is always available irregardless of tiling.

Ohk...I won't disagree now that 3 guys said the same thing.
I just wanna know why the article seems to suggest otherwise...& why exclusives like Alan Wake which are built upon 360's architecture use A2C eventhough they have massive amount of fillrate available.

 

[joker454]

Ohk...I won't disagree now that 3 guys said the same thing.
I just wanna know why the article seems to suggest otherwise...& why exclusives like Alan Wake which are built upon 360's architecture use A2C eventhough they have massive amount of fillrate available.

You sure it's using a2c? Sometimes it's used on complex interweaved geometry like hair, because sorting it would be a pain in the ass if the hair wasn't designed quite right, and they should be able to get away with it (in motion, not on screen shots) if it's using 4xmsaa with a2c. But for the rest of the game, are they really using a2c? I'm haven't checked as I'm on a media ban on that game since I don't want any surprises ruined

 

[nightshade]

Yea they did mentioned before that they are doing A2C.

EDIT: http://forum.alanwake.com/showpost.php?p=60352&postcount=23

 

[jlippo]

Yea they did mentioned before that they are doing A2C.

EDIT: http://forum.alanwake.com/showpost.php?p=60352&postcount=23

They most likely didn't want to sort those trees and deal with the possible problems with those volumetric effects they use.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Yea they did mentioned before that they are doing A2C.

EDIT: http://forum.alanwake.com/showpost.php?p=60352&postcount=23

Thaks for the link. So how are they doing their mist effects?! Are they rendering A2C particles and using the AA to smooth them out? That makes no sense to me. Or are they using an alpha-blended fog pass? Or using a different rendering method entirely, some form of volumetric shader?

 

[AlNom]

Or are they using an alpha-blended fog pass? Or using a different rendering method entirely, some form of volumetric shader?

Yeah, I was thinking it could be an extra pass for volumetric fog, not that I've seen much video (boo on spoilering).

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Given the deferred renderer approach, it makes sense. I'd like confirmation though. Seems a waste of all Xenos's bandwidth if they don't do this!

 

[nightshade]

Given the deferred renderer approach, it makes sense. I'd like confirmation though. Seems a waste of all Xenos's bandwidth if they don't do this!

Has it been confirmed or hinted that its a deferred render ? If its so then having A2C seems to make sense.

 

[assurdum]

Would be interesting if the MT framework should use a sort of MLAA upscalable on the ps3 a la dynamic 4xAA on 360, but capcom not seems so smart how it is on 360, on the ps3.

 

[liolio]

Would be interesting if the MT framework should use a sort of MLAA upscalable on the ps3 a la dynamic 4xAA on 360, but capcom not seems so smart how it is on 360, on the ps3.

That's a bit unfair to Capcom as the guy from Santa Clara didn't achieve that either to help keeping the framerate constant @60fps.

 

[assurdum]

That's a bit unfair to Capcom as the guy of Santa clara didn't achieve that either to help keeping the framerate constant @60fps.

Santa Clara O_O However I prefer how it is gow 3 at 40 - 50 fps to a 60 fps version with the graphic of DMC 4.

 

[liolio]

Santa Clara O_O However I prefer how it is gow 3 at 40 - 50 fps to a 60 fps version with the graphic of DMC 4.

I still haven't seen Gow3 for my self but from what my workmates have told me I agree with you on the matter.
Spoiler 1

Spoiler

Insomniac is right 60 fps doesn't sell games graphics does.

Spoiler 2

Spoiler

GoW3 seems to be anywhere from 30 to 60 fps according to various sources 1 2 3

Spoiler 3

Spoiler

Visceral/EA must feel either angry or stupid about their choices in Dante's inferno I dunno...

Anyway I still don't think your point on Capcom was fair, GOW3 devs put a lot of efforts in their custom anti aliasing solution you make it sounds like it would have been trivial for Capcom to do the same + make it dynamic.
What factors capcom profile to switch from 4xAA to 2xAA to 0xAA or from quincunz to 0xAA? I don't know. Would profiling those same factors be an accurate mean to estimate the cost of MLAA on a given frame I don't know either.
Insights would be welcome tho.

 

[assurdum]

I still haven't seen Gow3 for my self but from what my workmates have told me I agree with you on the matter.
Spoiler 1

Spoiler

Insomniac is right 60 fps doesn't sell games graphics does.

Spoiler 2

Spoiler

GoW3 seems to be anywhere from 30 to 60 fps according to various sources 1 2 3

Spoiler 3

Spoiler

Visceral/EA must feel either angry or stupid about their choices in Dante's inferno I dunno...

Anyway I still don't think your point on Capcom was fair, GOW3 devs put a lot of efforts in their custom anti aliasing solution you make it sounds like it would have been trivial for Capcom to do the same + make it dynamic.
What factors capcom profile to switch from 4xAA to 2xAA to 0xAA or from quincunz to 0xAA? I don't know. Would profiling those same factors be an accurate mean to estimate the cost of MLAA on a given frame I don't know either.
Insights would be welcome tho.

I don't know if it will be trivial dynamic MLAA but surely dynamic QAA is ridicolous & RE 5 to me it isn't a good works on the ps3. The fps chop even when not have an apparent reason & the sessions without transparencies reflection effect on the water, could have a low buffer or a better water shaders to 'compensate' the differences.

 

[Sigfried1977]

I actually would have prefered if Santa Monica locked the GOWIII framerate at 30. Even though the game is measurably pumping out more frames than an Uncharted 2 or a FFXIII, the constant fluctuations make it appear choppier than it really is. Whenever a lot of stuff is going on (which is where a high fr would come in handy the most I'd wager) the game pumps out framerartes in the low 30s anyway.

 

[2real4tv]

I actually would have prefered if Santa Monica locked the GOWIII framerate at 30. Even though the game is measurably pumping out more frames than an Uncharted 2 or a FFXIII, the constant fluctuations make it appear choppier than it really is. Whenever a lot of stuff is going on (which is where a high fr would come in handy the most I'd wager) the game pumps out framerartes in the low 30s anyway.

No thanks don't listen to this guy keep doing what your doing SM.

 

[nightshade]

Indeed...the higher than 30FPS was really nice, as the game mostly remained near 40-45 FPS even in most outdoor areas with tense actions & indoors mostly hovered near 50FPS mark. That helped a lot especially when mixed with per Object motion Blur & due to all this it never felt even slightly choppy. I'd take this over a locked 30FPS anyday.

 

[TheWretched]

Agreed... even though the framerate wasn't steady, it still felt rock solid on my end (well, being a PC gamer I am used to wildly varying framerates anyhow). There's little advantage in locking the framerate, especially when using triple buffering.

 

[2real4tv]

Agreed... even though the framerate wasn't steady, it still felt rock solid on my end (well, being a PC gamer I am used to wildly varying framerates anyhow). There's little advantage in locking the framerate, especially when using triple buffering.

yes, now when its varying like MGS4 from sub30 to 60 I can see his point.

 

[Clerigo]

Indeed...the higher than 30FPS was really nice, as the game mostly remained near 40-45 FPS even in most outdoor areas with tense actions & indoors mostly hovered near 50FPS mark. That helped a lot especially when mixed with per Object motion Blur & due to all this it never felt even slightly choppy. I'd take this over a locked 30FPS anyday.

I agree...