The Game Technology discussion thread *Read first post before posting*

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by Shifty Geezer, Nov 14, 2008.

  1. Laa-Yosh

    Laa-Yosh I can has custom title?
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    Mass Effect 1 definitely uses it, don't have the sequel (yet) though.
     
  2. DonaldDuck

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    From a design point of view a 576p cutscene may be acceptable if the resolution of the in-game parts are the same. The result would be a more cohesive IQ. But, are they?

    I really want to know the technical approach Square took when porting the game. What we have seen of the PS3 version seems far from unreachable in Microsoft hardware. I know time can be a determining factor when you have to reach parity in IQ and performance, but XTS hardware is well known for it´s accesibility.

    We´ll see soon what happened.

    I suppose that being the project manager in such a big production can become a nightmare. Things are never easy, you know.
     
  3. assurdum

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    FFXIII has HDR+2xMSAA & in a limited EDRAM cause tiling. However It has been explained in different occasions that it isn't exactly so absurd the use of subhd to solve the tiling (ng2, halo, tomb raider for example) .
     
  4. Shifty Geezer

    Shifty Geezer uber-Troll!
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    What do they mean by 'moved it off the CPUs'? There's got to be a typo there somewhere. Off the GPU? Off the PPU onto SPEs? Off the SPEs onto PPU? Off Cell onto GPU?
     
  5. Butta

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    Would MLAA even make sense on SPU? Are there any other examples of this being done (and unlike Saboteur which turned out to be blur)?
     
  6. inefficient

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    I found this paper on MLAA written by Intel engineer Alexander Reshetov
    http://visual-computing.intel-research.net/publications/mlaa.pdf

    He writes:

    Sounds like a good match for the SPUs. I've never heard of a PS3 developer offloading work from the SPU to the GPU because the SPUs were so over worked and the GPU had some time to kill.
     
  7. Brad Grenz

    Brad Grenz Philosopher & Poet
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    Yeah, 90 minutes sounded low. I think 3 hours of actual FMV sounds accurate, perhaps split into 90 minutes each of high quality CG and pre-rendered in engine using game assets. That could easily cause confusion, but it changes the numbers game substantially. Now it's how to get 9 GBs of video spread across 3 discs in addition to 6.8 GBs of game data, a not insignificant portion of which must be duplicated across all three. Sounds like the answer was to squinch that 9 GBs down even further.
     
  8. Jurai

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    almost all 360 games lately have implemented BINK as their fmv codec of choice, at the start of the console WMV was very prevalent but it's slowly falling off the chart
     
  9. Jurai

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    Also on the topic of BINK, I do know it has pretty good support for multi-channel audio options, might be why it's gained so much popularity but don't quote me on that.

    I like how you bust out a ton of info on filesizes yet don't realize that it is relatively simple to read the data off a 360 disc, multiple applications exist which can read an original 360 disc if you have the right drive connected to your PC.
     
  10. cal_guy

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    Well you have to remember that the first two discs has 1 GB of free space each while the third disc has about 200 MB of free disc space.

    Well most of those games probably don't use FMV nearly as much as Final Fantasy XIII.
     
  11. COPS N RAPPERS

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    Actually no it isn't. most little utilities for xbox to pc stuff are made to view logs of the files....not to open them or decrypt it so that everyone can access it. in actuality your talking about breaking the 2gb encryption just to read the files and then extract it. Reading files off of an xbox 360 disc isn't like reading stuff off a bonus or extra's disc from a movie.

    the files don't show up as readable thumbnails that you just find, execute, and pluck off of the disc. everything is encoded, even the little movie files. to read, extract, and get these media files to view for every pc is much more complicated than just making a capturing of it and leaking it on the net.

    i'm surprised at how much negative speculations is being conjured up yet there's no direct captures of the game it's self being leaked. too many people are focusing on a specific subject and are taking advantage of the game not yet being out to the masses.
     
  12. phleg

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    These shots appear to be from the leaked 360 version (posted in the IQ thread) and appear to match up to previous suspicions regarding the resolution:

    http://i47.tinypic.com/vzd6aw.jpg
    http://i46.tinypic.com/aca729.jpg
    http://i49.tinypic.com/2mpanfn.jpg
    http://i47.tinypic.com/r74nqx.jpg
     
  13. Jurai

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    360 games generally store pre-rendered fmv in standard video containers as far as I'm aware, considering the video is already compressed it doesn't make much sense to try to store it in an extra compression container too. FF13 360 stores it's FMV in 'wmp' files, but in reality they are just regular BINK videos with an extra header at the start. If you delete the extraneous header you can play them back in Rad Tools. It looks like Square-Enix skimped out on audio for the FMV's too though, best I can tell there is one stereo track devoted mostly to sound effects of the FMV, one mono track for the voice overs, and one more stereo track focusing on the music and some ambient sound effects. Whether this can accomplish any true surround effects during playback, I'm not really sure.

    Also, yes, it is as simple as reading the disc to access the files. Multiple applications exist which understand the filestructure employed by the 360, you can use a modified pc dvd-rom drive or purchase a secondhand drive from an actual 360 and access disc content from your retail game.
     
  14. corduroygt

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  15. TheWretched

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    There's no mystical 2GB encryption on 360 discs... the first track of 360 dvds is simply a video session telling you to put it into a 360, if you put it into a DVD player or something else.

    And... reading a 360 disc is, as others also pointed out, not that much work either!
     
  16. ultragpu

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    Some preview about the HDR and SSAO implementation in Uncharted 2 at GDC 2010. Also the folks from Santa Monica studios would present GOW3 tech tidbits.
    http://playstationatgdc.eventnewscenter.com/contents/details/678-playstation-sessions

    Uncharted 2: HDR Lighting
    Speaker: John Hable (Naughty Dog)
    Date/time: Saturday 3:00- 4:00
    Location (room): Room 305, South Hall
    Description: This session talks about HDR Lighting in Uncharted 2. The main focus will be Gamma/Linear-Space Lighting, Filmic Tonemapping, and Screen-Space Ambient Occlusion. Throughout the session, we will talk about all the little details that no one tells you, like why our SSAO only affects ambient light, how our highlights avoid clamping, and if specular maps should be stored in linear or gamma space.
     
  17. Laa-Yosh

    Laa-Yosh I can has custom title?
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    Sounds like stuff that many other devs should learn from...
     
  18. Jurai

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    Just an update to a previous statement I made, the .wmp files on FFXIII 360 actually contain multiple BINK videos, though I'm not discerning any type of filelist/offset information in the files, guessing the game has the appropriate offsets hardcoded for reading
     
  19. marcus_rocks

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    Uncharted 2's lighting

    http://features.cgsociety.org/story_custom.php?story_id=5545
     
    #799 marcus_rocks, Mar 15, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 15, 2010
  20. AlBran

    AlBran Ferro-Fibrous
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    I'd say light pre-pass is very different... wrong thing to focus on in the quoted part. The actual tech discussion isn't something particularly new, but nice to confirm (again). They used this lighting method in the first game, for instance. Hope we get the slides from GDC. That'll be far more enlightening.
     
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