Gamefront is reporting that an obscure Czech gaming site is reporting that apparently Forza 2 is already on sale in Czechia. 
http://konzole.syspro.cz/index360.php
http://konzole.syspro.cz/index360.php
The Big Forza 2 Thread *
- Thread starter Cheezdoodles
- Start date
New pitpass. The well-qualified opinions on the game of the time are so great.
http://forzamotorsport.net/news/pitpassreports/pitpass47.htm
Some kind Japanese lad translated Famitsu reviews. A quick summary:
http://forzamotorsport.net/news/pitpassreports/pitpass47.htm
found a recent Q&A with a former Japanese GT racer and has kindly translated the whole thing for this week's WPR.
Take it away, Cormacaroni!
"Here’s a recent interview with former GT racer Takeshi Tsuchiya from the official Japanese Xbox site. I thought it was quite fun (if obviously a bit of a puff piece) so I translated the Q&A section to kill a slow afternoon at work. The intro deals mainly with the details of his background and play session (on an April build of Forza 2 on the triple-screen set-up, with wheel, cockpit, etc). He chose the car he raced professionally on Suzuka, the Eclipse Advan Supra, and after tweaking his settings and doing a number of trial laps, managed to pretty much nail his real life time, posting a best lap of 1.58.395."
Q: So, how was it?
Takeshi Tsuchiya: I was quite impressed at how realistic the earlier versions felt, but this new version is a considerable step up, both the graphics and the handling. They’ve nailed the feeling of actually driving a GT 500 car. There’s practically no difference between the way it feels to hit or release the gas, the braking, or shifting. Although you don’t get much feedback on physical forces like G, there’s enough to let you know when you might be headed for trouble. Apart from all that, I just loved racing around in a game in a car that I’d actually driven. Not only is the Eclipse Advan Supra a really cool-looking car, its handling is real sharp – I love it.
Q: You adjusted your settings a lot – how was that aspect of it?
TT: I just can’t race smoothly or enjoyably without the car being set up properly. In an actual race, I make little adjustments on every lap. You have to use your head in exactly the same way as you would in real life – you might want to set it up so that you don’t lose it on the curves, but if you overdo it, you might not be able to turn fast enough, things like that. Today, I just did enough tuning to be able to take the last corner at full throttle, but it was very close to the set-up I actually use in practice with the real car. I’m sure if I spent more time on it, I could get a better time with some fine-tuning.
Q: Any tips for us?
TT: It’s just as difficult to drive in the game as it is in real life, so the best advice is probably to practice in a real car
Q: This time you went for a Time Trial, but what other modes are you interested in?
TT: Since FM2 reproduces car characteristics so accurately, what I want to do most are virtual test-drives, where I take cars I could never afford out on the circuit to see what they’re like and how they handle. Also, racing against other players looks fun. If I did it, I’m sorry but I’d have to go all-out – I don’t think anyone would have a chance at taking me on Suzuka with the Eclipse Advan Supra, no matter how good a gamer they are!
Q: Finally, a message for the fans eagerly awaiting Forza Motorsport 2 please!
TT: I think it really goes beyond what you expect from a game. I think it’s probably the first racing game that a real life race driver like myself can actually win at
Some kind Japanese lad translated Famitsu reviews. A quick summary:
Good afternoon.
Fu3lFr3nzy
Regular
Quick question here: how long did it take for you guys to download the demo? im close to 2hrs and im at 57%, which doesnt seem bad, but still, pretty slow
I dont know who to blame for the slow speed
*back to normal discussion*
I dont know who to blame for the slow speed
*back to normal discussion*
that's because he's not playing it. :smile:
he's basing his opinions (and impressions) on some player's opinion translated 2nd hand, to argue with you, with wheel in hand and many hours of use. go figure.
Yeah, translated from German, not my first language, to English, not my first language, and based on the comments of a guy I think I only met once at a LAN party. It's just that he summarised what the general impressions are of more guys like him. And since I know they are pretty hardcore car-enthusiasts, and I'm pretty sure you are mostly just hardcore xbox, I still trust them over you.
When someone writes, for instance, about how the McLaren SLR in Forza compares to the same car in GT4, and points out that the rear wing doesn't pop up when you brake this car in Forza 2, or that when you select manual gear for this car (it only comes in automatic), the car behaves and sounds like a manual, unlike in GT4 where the gear shifts behave the same as if you added a tip-tronic to an auto - you still get to shift when you want, but it's still an auto.
I will give Arwin credit for saying he is going to try and actually play a Forza game for himself sometime though.
That's a promise. I'm bummed that I couldn't find Forza Motorsport 1 yesterday. Tried again today but no luck, in the end one shop had a reasonable amount of Xbox games (it did have Rallysport 2, almost tempted to get that) and another had 2 (lousy ones). I ordered it online now but delivery is 1-2 weeks, which is a shame because I'm currently in the middle of having four days off and had some time to spare.
Some cool things about Forza, is that Che turned up a few times on some of the gran turismo forums (for instance GTPlanet.net). That's really neat and was appreciated by the community.
Despite the disappointment of not yet supporting a decent wheel (most people agree on that the MS wheel is no patch on the DFPro, let alone the G25) and some other issues though, my conclusion so far is that it's looking like this is a game I'll at the very least want to try.
around 30 minutes
Fu3lFr3nzy
Regular
I still trust them over you.
...
oh, I'm no car sim expert for sure.
I was referring to Scooby's experience being more qualified however (as qualified as your quoted friend perhaps).
you should try to get your hands on a 360 and a wheel to see for yourself.
the problem with taking your opinions from PS-centric/GT players is that many people who grew up on the GT series (you too, most likely) are going to be hard pressed to give Forza2 an open minded review IMO as it is always harder to go away from what has become familiar.
are you using a router? is it open?
Fu3lFr3nzy
Regular
Its WEP protected. Yes, I need help to configuring this out
We're derailing the thread
, thru pm I guess?
oh, I'm no car sim expert for sure.
I was referring to Scooby's experience being more qualified however (as qualified as your quoted friend perhaps).
you should try to get your hands on a 360 and a wheel to see for yourself.
Well as stated, I definitely will.
This is a very valid statement, absolutely. You are absolutely right in this.
Of course, it does not apply to me.
I'm from 1974, a black sheep in a family of car nuts by 'only' having been primarily interested in racing on computer games. I have been doing so for some 20 years, and Geoff Crammond's first (for me on the Atari ST, I think in 1988, I still have the original booklet somewhere) is the game that is in many ways still the highlight for me - this game had some of the best AI still around, and it's dedication to realism in that and later PC iterations was awesome. I bought my first wheel for the PC, a Thrustmaster F1 which actually had some very decent pedals by the way. Since then I bought piles of different wheels, and drove heaps of different racing games. I could write you a list of things I don't like in Gran Turismo that would make your head spin and believe I absolutely hate that game. When I like something I really get into it and invest in it. So consider my critical weighings-in in this thread at least as a compliment to Forza 2 in the sense that I'm interested in it enough to give it a close, harsh look.
...
When I like something I really get into it and invest in it. So consider my critical weighings-in in this thread at least as a compliment to Forza 2 in the sense that I'm interested in it enough to give it a close, harsh look.
well sounds like you can be a pretty good judge yourself then ....when you actually get a chance to play FM2 with a wheel please keep us posted. :smile:
That disqualifies you to make all the bold claims you do.
If you block your wheels you car will slide in real life, in Forza 2, it will slide, but not neccesarily out of the road.
The Demo track in Forza 2 has very little elevation at all, its maybe 3 metres difference from the highest elevated point to the lowest, and the general climb\decent is at a very low angle except for at one spot (going downhill), so the differences would be hard to spot, the statement however is completely wrong.
The telemetry shows not only difference in how the suspension reacts downhill\uphill, quick acceleration tests also shows a clear difference going uphill\downhill. (note that the angle of the decent is low)
Quick accel test regarding elevation differences:
Parked a 911 Turbo at one of the lowest points in game into a wall (still on normal racing tarmack, not dirt), full accel until it reaches highest elevated point in game. Then for the downhill test, i parked the car at the highest elevated point (i even put it half a car lenght ahead of the point to make sure it had a slightly shorter acceleration lenght)
Top speed going uphill: 125km\h
Top speed going downhill: 139km\h
Says who? A GT fanatic? Mind you GT4 is notorious for having to much grip. Aspecially if you put the best tires on, its out of this world.
Based on what exactly? There is a clear difference between the different drivetrains (is that the correct word? AWD,FWD,RWD and so), and a clear difference in handling (if you turn off all assists) between differently weight distrubuted cars.
Also remember that GT:HD has a much bigger variance between the cars, so the differences would be bigger. A 599GTB will handle more differently than a MX-5, weras the differences in handling between two RWD car with 50\50 weight distrubution, more or less same distance between the wheels and nearly the same power and weight, wont have all that big handling differences.
Agreed.
This is another ridiculus statement, GT4 AI is basically a preset route which they "always" follow, weras Forza actually had AI based on some sort of math, they might have been a bit to aggressive, but at least they could give you good competition even if you were fairly good, and they managed to adapt to situations.
The differences in AI in GT4 and Forza 1 is huge. GT4 AI would basically just ram into you if you were on the track standing still, while Forza AI would try to avoid you.
At this point, i suggest you stop making comparison for a game you haven't played, basing it on what some dude said on a forum. Try it yourself then your in a situation to comment
For those complaining about the fine details in handling. They're quite present. You just have to have an idea what to look for......
The second set of esses is a great example. Exiting the right hander the road goes up but has a dip in it. In Forza2, you'll notice your car position and control input determines the effect this dip has on your car.
If you come into the turn shallow carrying a lot of speed, you'll first notice that your car isn't pointed. You'll still think you can make the turn though and why not? you can on the previous set of esses. Now here is where the dip comes in! as your car is not pointed and you'll try to finish off the corner using steering needed due to carrying a shallow line, you'll load up the front considerably to the point of mild understeer. Right as you go over the rise, your front end will immediately wash out from under you and next thing you know you're almost at the curb and your car has failed to rotate.
You'll also notice that due to the dip, this corner has a tendency to create a snap oversteer situation unlike the previous set of esses. But now if you hold constant throttle as you go over the rise, your car will give a little twitch and come right back in line. I've never seen this effect duplicated with such perfection in a game before.
Another one to watch out for in the final corner which starts off downhill and then flattens out. Even though you're in the car, you can *feel* it loading up the front and steering getting heavy. Then you'll notice how sensitive the car is to inputs since the corner is flat and you're carrying too much speed into it. Thus you'll alternate quickly between under/oversteer and have to tell yourself to come in slow and then shoot out to keep a smooth and fast exit.
The main thing however that impressed me about Forza2 is the penalty for oversteer. Most games sadly will not punish greatly for an overly anxious right foot! (a good selling point as people get off on sideways tire smoking action and don't want that to be the reason for losing the race!) In Forza2, no matter how much HP you have, spinning it up and applying opposite lock on exits will do nothing more than dramatically slow your car down. Notice when you're chasing another car, you'll tend to be more aggressive with the throttle and trying to make up the gap and keep getting the ass end out and losing ground. In a lot of games prior, you were allowed to get sloppy but maintain the drive.
The second set of esses is a great example. Exiting the right hander the road goes up but has a dip in it. In Forza2, you'll notice your car position and control input determines the effect this dip has on your car.
If you come into the turn shallow carrying a lot of speed, you'll first notice that your car isn't pointed. You'll still think you can make the turn though and why not? you can on the previous set of esses. Now here is where the dip comes in! as your car is not pointed and you'll try to finish off the corner using steering needed due to carrying a shallow line, you'll load up the front considerably to the point of mild understeer. Right as you go over the rise, your front end will immediately wash out from under you and next thing you know you're almost at the curb and your car has failed to rotate.
You'll also notice that due to the dip, this corner has a tendency to create a snap oversteer situation unlike the previous set of esses. But now if you hold constant throttle as you go over the rise, your car will give a little twitch and come right back in line. I've never seen this effect duplicated with such perfection in a game before.
Another one to watch out for in the final corner which starts off downhill and then flattens out. Even though you're in the car, you can *feel* it loading up the front and steering getting heavy. Then you'll notice how sensitive the car is to inputs since the corner is flat and you're carrying too much speed into it. Thus you'll alternate quickly between under/oversteer and have to tell yourself to come in slow and then shoot out to keep a smooth and fast exit.
The main thing however that impressed me about Forza2 is the penalty for oversteer. Most games sadly will not punish greatly for an overly anxious right foot! (a good selling point as people get off on sideways tire smoking action and don't want that to be the reason for losing the race!) In Forza2, no matter how much HP you have, spinning it up and applying opposite lock on exits will do nothing more than dramatically slow your car down. Notice when you're chasing another car, you'll tend to be more aggressive with the throttle and trying to make up the gap and keep getting the ass end out and losing ground. In a lot of games prior, you were allowed to get sloppy but maintain the drive.
What?
That was about driving physics?
Admittedly, I had forgotten about the face buttons being analog. At best, though this means the big advantage for the XBOX's triggers turns into a less big advantage.
My whole point was, if Forza 1 and GT4 were fairly close in the quality of their driving models then the relative deficiencies each had in the capabilities of each of their controllers could give the edge to one or the other. This is a fully plausible explanation for the results that you referenced.
Indeed. What might otherwise be simply classified as "different" becomes "right" and "wrong".
Yes. But in this equation there is in fact an 'absolute' right and wrong. And that's the only one I'm using as a frame of reference, for any driving game. I'll do my best to try and stick to this, even if my experience of some kinds of cars only comes from a variety of games rather than reality.
There's an underlying world of physics that we seem to be able to agree on for the most part all over the world based on our scientific principles which is as objective a frame of reference as we can get (after the skeptics have destroyed the illusion of absolute truth with their philosophical whining about subjectivity ).I understand your point about the controls now though, and its a valid one and may have played a part in reviews.
Robert, yes, that's the kind of thing I like to hear. I have heard from others as well that at first they couldn't feel the physics in the car at all with the MS Wheel, but after a while they noticed the feeling in the force-feedback just is a little weaker, but if you pay close attention, it's still there. Chicane's are great for demonstrating why force feedback is so important in driving games like these. One of the first things I learnt about driving thanks to force feedback was back in the GT3 days - in the first turn the car leans outward, and then comes back up. If you turn in for the second turn before the car has come back up fully from leaning out, you'll lose control very quickly. If you wait so that the car can smoothly transition from leaning from one side to the other, you'll not fight the physics of the car's mass and movement and keep control more easily (though sometimes fighting physics a little can help - witness the best lap time replay of the ferrari in GT:HD). You can feel in the force feedback when the car has come back up.
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Yes, but making ridiculous claims based on what some GT4 fanboy said in german is just wrong.
Further, your not using the absolute right and wrong as a reference, your using GT4 as a reference to everything else.
Wrong in principle? You have anything against the German language? Would you have given him more credit if he wrote it in English? And are we talking about the kind of fanboys here that buy a 360 and an MS Wheel just so they can spoute some non-sense about Forza 2? Do you know any of those? I know some GT fans are dedicated but ...
Sure, there will be racing fans who are used to GT:HD and who will be taking that game as a frame of reference. But most people I know drive and/or have driven racing games on PC as well, and/or are somehow connected to some form of real-life racing (or in case of the Germans, the Autobahn and their crazy short on- and off ramps.
No wonder they're all driving and making cars like BMWs and Audis )What you are doing is not reading very well. You honestly think I was talking about speed when discussing the elevation changes? Have you noticed that I'm not using GT4 as a reference when it comes to handling? In fact, I've mentioned some stuff in GT3, I've mentioned the wing on the McLaren SLR in GT4, and otherwise, if anything, I'm talking about GT:HD. And contrary to what some sorry n00bs may think, the handling in GT:HD != GT4.
(And yes, GT4 still had too much grip here and there, especially with racing tires. There were serious complaints about cars like the MX-5 which are really easy to drift in turns in reality, but this was nigh on impossible with the stock car in GT4. The inability to do donuts properly in GT4 was also related).
Have you any experience with real-life racing? I have, you seem to talk about how much experience you have with console\pc racing. Comparing different sim games, when you use another game as point of reference still gives you a ****ed up result. Unless of course, the game your using as reference is 100% true to life.
Notice also that i explained to you that the elevation changes in the Forza 2 demo are so small, and only possible to test on 30metres of road, that its rather hard to actually get any meaningful results other than acceleration\braking tests.
I would absolutely love for you to respond to my comments to your bold claims, such as handling differences and why Forza 1 Ai really wasn't better, when you haven't played the game.
Your basing all your arguments of what some forum poster has told you, he may be correct, he may be wrong, its ridiculous that you run around here and make those arguments when you haven't tested it for yourself.
