I know in FM1 you can change the brake pressure (or brake force). It is done as a percentage. So I would guess it is possible to lower it enough so that your brakes don't ever lock. I recall the side effect being it took longer to slow down (I think).
The Big Forza 2 Thread *
- Thread starter Cheezdoodles
- Start date
I know in FM1 you can change the brake pressure (or brake force). It is done as a percentage. So I would guess it is possible to lower it enough so that your brakes don't ever lock. I recall the side effect being it took longer to slow down (I think).
ihamoitc2005
Veteran
corner speed
Someone has done this for all corners and made a website with this information. He says real world corner speed is slowest and Forza is fastest. So example (cannot remember exactly) will be if real world speed for corner x is 128kmph then GT4 is 135kmph and Forza is 141kmph.
Someone has done this for all corners and made a website with this information. He says real world corner speed is slowest and Forza is fastest. So example (cannot remember exactly) will be if real world speed for corner x is 128kmph then GT4 is 135kmph and Forza is 141kmph.
You can't use the Nurburgring for this, as Turn10 made an error in scaling that particular track (or they did it on purpose to make overtaking easier). So you'd have to take one of the other tracks that are in at least those two games ... I'm not sure which tracks they both have, but I think at least Tsukuba and Laguna Seca. More interesting will be the Forza 2 version of the Ring.
I don't think the Nordschleife track would be suitable for this kind of testing, given that it's very dangerous and you won't be wanting to drive so close to the limit in that place, given it's narrow, tricky and there's isn't much room for errors. Make a mistake and it may easily cost you your car - opposed to in the game where you're seconds away from starting a track over again. Then there's the factor of tires which make a huge different with grip - at least in my case with semi-slicks, cold/warm tyres make a huge difference.
Anyway, having a run with Sabine should be quite good fun. I haven't been to the Nordschleife yet, but may take on an opportunity sometime in July. At 600 km it may be relatively close to me, but still too far away for my liking (not to mention that my tyres last for 3500km and cost a fortune!).
Cheers Phil
Your not allowed to record your own run. You might be allowed to record Sabine's though. There are some parts where you can test your grip safely, but then you can test that anywhere. I think it's better to compare the data with professional results, as much as possible. You can watch videos and dvds, and time them, for instance, frame by frame. I have some japanese dvds with that show which tests on Tsukuba a lot (forgot the name just now), which might help, and there is other stuff like that out there. I've done a lot of laptime hunting back when GT4 was the hot new thing myself, and there's really a lot out there.
To do it really well would be very difficult - getting the right track conditions, testing with differen sets of tires, and a car in the right 'new' condition (not worn, but already broken in), reliable driver skills, etc. etc. I have a friend who goes to the Ring at least every few months, and I live 160km away from it, and as of recently, I can drive to there for free now myself, so whenever one of you guys is going there, let me know, and I might be able to meet up with you guys.
But maybe we can start first with a thorough comparing of Forza, GT4, Forza 2 and GT:HD (later GT5 Prologue, then GT5 final and Forza 3 lol, and PGR3, and whatever other game, GTR, Race Driver, Live4Speed), and get the differences charted. Then we can discuss which one is more realistic (if there is even a question) and try to figure out why, and if there is any contention, then we can fall back in real-life.
To do it really well would be very difficult - getting the right track conditions, testing with differen sets of tires, and a car in the right 'new' condition (not worn, but already broken in), reliable driver skills, etc. etc. I have a friend who goes to the Ring at least every few months, and I live 160km away from it, and as of recently, I can drive to there for free now myself, so whenever one of you guys is going there, let me know, and I might be able to meet up with you guys.
But maybe we can start first with a thorough comparing of Forza, GT4, Forza 2 and GT:HD (later GT5 Prologue, then GT5 final and Forza 3 lol, and PGR3, and whatever other game, GTR, Race Driver, Live4Speed), and get the differences charted. Then we can discuss which one is more realistic (if there is even a question) and try to figure out why, and if there is any contention, then we can fall back in real-life.
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Its not like i'm going to show the people at the booth "hey im going to record my laps!!"
I did a taxi lap last year, and she pulled a sub 9:00 time with 3 people in the car, in a M5, without to much hassle, it was early so not much trafic. Thought i would shit my pants tho, your sitting in the passenger seat next to this crazy german girl who seems to have a serious issue with road rage. (Sometimes she will scream at the car, sometimes she will curse the car, often she will curse the traffic, specially Volvo sedans.)
Year prior, i did it with another trackmaster (??) in a M3.
Ring taxi has over 1 year waiting list, in case you thought about just showing up, but its not uncommon for people to miss their booking, where you can step in and take a lap.
Anyways, im selling my current car over the summer anyway and trading up, so i figure i have to go this year as well, to give it a proper goodbye, next car is to far away from being a track car to really bother going to nurburgring.
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ihamoitc2005
Veteran
Turn x
I am sorry for this confusion my friend, but when I say turn x I mean any random turn not turn 10. I would like to visit this famous track and have the taxi ride.
I am sorry for this confusion my friend, but when I say turn x I mean any random turn not turn 10. I would like to visit this famous track and have the taxi ride.
The ring would be a bad comparison. Something more ideal would to take Laguna Seca times (no track cutting) for the C6R and compare them to what's possible in the game. Then you guys can argue endlessly how accurate it is with respect to the all the variables that real life driving has to take into account.
Ok, let's take an example to illustrate you (if my memory serves me well since I haven't played Forza 1 in a while because I gave my Xbox away to my best friend after the X360 came out).
I remember playing the Lotus Exige challenge, which was limited to stock cars. One of the races takes place in Blue Mountains, a track that's among my favourite tracks in the game so far. There is a long straight until a sweeping turn to the home straight. A close race most of the time, I managed to build up a 1,5 seconds lead in the last lap.
At first I thought I should take the last corner a little conservatively but I thought that that would hurt me at the finish so I took the last bend a little too hot but I just went for it.
The AI's car placed 2nd, in a desperate try to catch me up -so human being like manoeuvre- entered the last corner completely crazy and this caused a bigger gap between *it* and me.
So then I pressed the Y button, luck strike on my side, and it was so amusing watching a scene where the AI's car enters the last corner and can't brake enough to control the car. It was like watching the RoadRunner trying to suddenly stop while running at full speed, jamming on the brakes -legs in this case- and the inertia dragging him beyond the track's tarmac into an unwanted pile of tires.
Well, that's truly an example of one of those memorable moments. I would add more but it would lenghten the post. Forza is my favourite driving simulator ever and the AI is pretty decent but not the type of AI I would defend and get huffy at the hint of any criticism. The merits make up for the flaws, though.
However, here are some flaws I've noticed so far:
1) Firstly, I've had lots of tight, exciting races where the guy behind me passed me several times before I won, but that involves (99% of the time) you leading the entire race. It's hard to have clean races overall if...
2) the race goes back and forth. Once that happens the computer AI will try to turn the race into a demolition derby instead of a race. If so it's over. It doesn't matter if you race clean or you get your car damaged by raw driving.
3) In real life if you outlap an opponent, he/she gets out of the way, leaves some space (gets shown a blue flag if he/she doesn't). Forza's AI will keep with the pace of the race, totally unaware of you when you try to overtake it, completely ignoring your car.
And that is pretty much all there is to it.
Cheers
Yeah, Nurburgring in Forza 1 is quite a bit longer than the actual track (like 20%+ or so), apart from the "autumn valley" graphical look (wich is fine in my eyes). It's wider also.
Take a look at the video of this article:
http://forzamotorsport.net/news/pitpassreports/pitpass46.htm
scooby_dooby
Legend
I disagree with these two points.
1) From my experience, the AI rarely hits you, unless you initiate contact first. They seem to have some vendetta AI built into the system. The only exception to this would be if your cut them off and they make minor contact with your bumper which causes you to lose control which does happen from time to time.
I've never had the AI really bump me off the course though, unless I hit them first.
2) I can remember in Forza 1 since it's been so long, but in F2 this definately isn't the case. The AI will swerve slightly to prevent you from passing, and also brake check you if they can. They aren't courteous enough to move out of your way, but are certainly aware you're there.
New article about FM2 in Sport Compact Car magazine (july 2007 issue, page 24, thx boogie van). It's written from the perspective of a car's guy. It's not a review from a straight up gamer like we are accustomed to see everywhere already.
Much of the article discuss how the detailed game physics are implemented. Some nice things he writes about the game.
Much of the article discuss how the detailed game physics are implemented. Some nice things he writes about the game.
Loved this part.
I think that was only half what he was getting at. Most proper racing series allow cars lapping you to pass without you causing them a problem. By the sound of things, neither Forza 1 or 2 support this AI behavior.
scooby_dooby
Legend
Hmm, could be. It's very hard to lap anyone in the Forza2 demo, as you're only given 3 1minute laps. So, I'm not sure how he's testing that.
You'd have to essentially wipe someone out on the first corner, really bad, then spend the remaining 3 laps trying to lap them.
Come to think of it, that should make for a fun challenge!
What I was talking about is the AI in Forza 1 (although not in the whole, yet in part) involved in some sort of purely random situations, but nothing permanent. The AI in Forza 2 is improved in that regard then it's probably not a problem. You don't see the cars bumper ramming into you anymore (only if that's unavoidable).
From my example it's obvious what the merits and (possible) flaws are, regarding the AI. I tried to help Arwin describing him not definite situations, but just my experiences --the good, the bad and the ugly ones.
There's no rose without a thorn.
As I already pointed out I've had some truly exciting races against FM1's AI that I remember fondly and it'd be fun to have them reborn in FM2. I believe Scooby has a point there.
I hope the AI is competitive enough in this one. I recently read an IGN's preview and yes, that seems to be the case.
FM2 is a rose for me.
I didn't test that because I can't outlap anyone in the demo. Arwin asked me something about the AI in Forza Motorsport 1 and I answered it like that. I am currently not testing the AI of Forza Motorsport 2, just trying to improve my skills until the game comes out (June 8).
Cheers
scooby_dooby
Legend
Ya that's what a figured. And I can't really remember how the AI behaved in this regard in Forza 1, though I can tell you that in F2 they are very aware of your presence behind, or beside them.
Well, I finally got my FM1 game in the mail today, and tonight I had a very little bit of time to test it. I put everything on the highest difficulty setting and went about to race. It took a little while to get used to but I'm ok now. The AI in the third race isn't too good, by the way, lots of mistakes in the racing line and they really have little problems with bumping into you either. That, and the brakes locking rather aggressively and apparently linearly (but I'll test that more tomorrow), were the things that irked me most so far. Overall the driving seems decent, though in terms of taking turns I don't know. It doesn't seem quite right, but I'll reserve judgement until we get to some better tests. I also really miss a wheel - perhaps I'll get a cheap Xbox1 wheel to see if that helps a little, and make it easier to compare. The analog sticks on the xbox controller aren't as good as I thought they might be.
More details tomorrow!
More details tomorrow!
