Swedish foreign minister stabbed

[Humus]

Demo, not that I feel like getting into a gun control debate, but that analogy falls on that a knife has plenty of uses besided killing people. You can use a car to kill people, but it's not the main or intended use. Same with knives, but not with guns. Carrying large "rambo style" knives in public is indeed illegal in Sweden btw.

As for motivation on the attack. She has been one of the front figures on the Yes in the EMU debate for the referendum on Sunday. The debate has been a little more dirty than typical political debates, but it's been purely verbal and only between politicians. A number of "unholy" aliances has been formed which has sparked anger at times. Anna had for instance published a debate article with the CEO of the large telecom company Ericsson. Being a social democrat many of her party's members, on the No side anyway, saw this as a "sitting in the knee of the capital". A view that other described as outdated and overly sensitive though. So there has been some speculation that there's been groups within the party that may have seen this as a betrayal. Police says though it's most likely not a planned action, and most likely not an organisation but simply an action on an alone lunatic. Most likely someone who don't want Sweden to join the EMU. It could be an extremist on either left or right, neither wants to join the EMU. The left because they think EMU will force taxation policies and other over Sweden (something I wouldn't object to anyway given current situation), the right simply because of nationalism. Given the described character, I'd guess on the latter. The way he was dressed sounded much like how the typical racist groups dress.

 

[Sabastian]

Humus, could you point me too a news site that covers Swedish news in English?

Yeah I would not be too interested in the idea that the EU would become a federal institution of some sort collecting taxes on top of provincial states. You would think that would be an inevitability though. What would also be disturbing is that you would lose some legislative powers to the EU… Looking at the constitution (I read only briefly some time ago) that it does seem quite detailed and lengthy, loosing certain legislative powers may also be another disturbing inevitability. Are there horrible negative consequences if Sweden should not join? The EU is becoming more and more of an interest for me personally, politically speaking of course.

 

[CosmoKramer]

http://www.sr.se/rs/english/

 

[Humus]

This is the best I can find:
http://www.sr.se/rs/red/ind_eng.html

Edit: Cosmo beat me to it.

The EU doesn't collect any tax, but there is though a fee for all member countries to pay, and that of course ends of on the country's tax anyway. The amounts are quite small though, the total of the shared EU budget is less than a single country budget.

If Sweden doesn't join EMU there's not a whole lot that can happend, except that we don't get the benefits of sharing our currency with the euro countries, which does suck, both for people travelling but more importantly for small businesses that have to live with the very shaky currency we have now. Very hard to predict costs and revenues, plus that every time you buy another currency you loose some value.
On the disadvantage you have the we don't have an interest of our own anymore. It will be controlled by the european central bank. In reality though, the Swedish interest rates have been in phase with ECB's interest rates anyway for a long time, it goes up and goes down typically on the say day as the EBC interest rate changes, so it's not really a big issue. Then we also have to live under the conditions of the EMU stability pact. That's not an issue either IMO, rather actually something very good, cause the rules are basically what I would consider thumb of rule of how to take responsibility for your country. Basically, the inflation cannot go over 3% and the deficit cannot go above 3%. So if you can't afford the public services, then you have to cut down in the budget, rather than borrowing money infinitly.

 

[Sabastian]

Thanks for that Humus. Sweden is fairly obscure and difficult to find information on in general.

 

[Humus]

Well, unless you know swedish of course. I'm kind of surprised anyway, now that I think of it, that there are very few english news services. If you're looking for general information about sweden, or swedish politics, then it shouldn't be that hard. I think all parties and all government authorities have sites and documents in english.

 

[Sabastian]

Well, unless you know swedish of course. I'm kind of surprised anyway, now that I think of it, that there are very few english news services. If you're looking for general information about sweden, or swedish politics, then it shouldn't be that hard. I think all parties and all government authorities have sites and documents in english.

Yes I know the government has English translations etc.(and am familliar with it sort of..) I am more interested in Journalists and news coverage in general. It would be nice to have a wide variety of news coverage from different perspectives like we can with the US. But I do not really expect a small country like Sweden to have that sort of coverage. At any rate thanks for the link it is appreciated.

 

[Entropy]

Every indication is that the murder was not political or even planned at all. All signs point to a spur-of-the-moment action by a deranged individual.

Whether this makes what has occured any better or rather even more disturbing, is a matter of opinion.

Entropy

 

[Snyder]

Yes I know the government has English translations etc.(and am familliar with it sort of..) I am more interested in Journalists and news coverage in general. It would be nice to have a wide variety of news coverage from different perspectives like we can with the US. But I do not really expect a small country like Sweden to have that sort of coverage. At any rate thanks for the link it is appreciated.

Why shouldn't have sweden such kind of coverage as well? I don't want to be rude, but that sounds quite arrogant. They probably won't have that much english domestic news coverage. But no one can blame swedish news that you don't speak their language.

 

[RussSchultz]

Errr, I think you misread what he wrote.

I don't see anywhere where he was blaming them for not having english websites, just stating that there is none, so he can't get any views as to what's on the news there.

 

[Humus]

I agree with Russ, I don't think Sabastian was trying to be arrogant or anything, just acknowledged the reality, that indeed english news covering Sweden is sparse.

Every indication is that the murder was not political or even planned at all. All signs point to a spur-of-the-moment action by a deranged individual.

Whether this makes what has occured any better or rather even more disturbing, is a matter of opinion.

Entropy

I've seen that on all english sites they say that it was probably not political, though that doesn't quite match the picture we get in swedish media. But then most english news on the matter are more or less just copy'n'pasting in the report from Reuters or whatever with little change to the content. The police has said that they didn't know if it was political, but I don't think anyone has said that they don't think it's political. Rather, the common opionion seems to be that it is likely. It was probably unplanned though, likely someone who were directly opposed to her that saw the chance and took it. It was mentioned loosely in Expressen (a newspaper) today that certain far-right extremist websites describes her as a "traitor for the people". I searched the phrase in google and found this site that even goes under the headline "extremist stabbed" etc.

 

[Sabastian]

Why shouldn't have sweden such kind of coverage as well? I don't want to be rude, but that sounds quite arrogant. They probably won't have that much english domestic news coverage. But no one can blame swedish news that you don't speak their language.

I am sorry if you read that notion into what I was saying, that was not the intent at all. I am frustrated though because the Swedish political model is an anomaly for the most part. (A rather important one I might add.) I have difficulties finding information with regards to Sweden and their society in particular with their media. Further if you look around you will not find any Swedish to English translators on the internet which only adds to my frustration.

The country is rather small in terms of population (approx 19 million IIRC) and so while the comment that I do not expect a small country to have wider media coverage might sound a tad arrogant that certainly was not my position. I have an interest in how their system works and what is said in their media with regards, that was what I was trying to convey.

 

[Snyder]

Why shouldn't have sweden such kind of coverage as well? I don't want to be rude, but that sounds quite arrogant. They probably won't have that much english domestic news coverage. But no one can blame swedish news that you don't speak their language.

I am sorry if you read that notion into what I was saying, that was not the intent at all. I am frustrated though because the Swedish political model is an anomaly for the most part. (A rather important one I might add.) I have difficulties finding information with regards to Sweden and their society in particular with their media. Further if you look around you will not find any Swedish to English translators on the internet which only adds to my frustration.

Well, I think I have to take the blame here as well, because I just read the last post from you in this thread. Your intention is quite clear when reading from the beginning. My apologies.

 

[horvendile]

The country is rather small in terms of population (approx 19 million IIRC)

In fact it's even smaller - only 9 millions!

 

[Sabastian]

The country is rather small in terms of population (approx 19 million IIRC)

In fact it's even smaller - only 9 millions!

9 million is not a horribly large market to have a wider variety of media to cover government goings on. In Canada here there are basically two national newspapers and Canada has a population more then 3 times the size of Sweden.

On that note there are some good questions to ask WRT the demographics of Sweden and the relative success of their political model. With only a population of 9 million and a comparatively exclusive ethnic background it may be said that there are some things that would work under specific demographics specific to Sweden as opposed to much larger and diverse countries like America. For example affirmative action type legislation would be considerably less controversial in Sweden where minorities are nearly non existent.

At any rate I am wondering for example what, if there are any, conservative media in Sweden advocate. Or for that matter moderates and left wing media advocate. I would like to compare the disparities between North American media and European Media with particular stress on the Swedish media. I am willing to bet that a moderately conservative perspective in North America would be considered extremely right wing in Europe. This would explain some matters.

 

[CosmoKramer]

For example affirmative action type legislation would be considerably less controversial in Sweden where minorities are nearly non existent.

Didn't anyone ever tell you to shut up about things you know nothing about? Of those 9 milllion 1.5 million are first or second generation immigrants from all over the world.

At any rate I am wondering for example what, if there are any, conservative media in Sweden advocate.

Most media in Sweden are conservative, the biggest tabloid "aftonbladet" the most noteworthy exception.

I would like to compare the disparities between North American media and European Media with particular stress on the Swedish media.

I find BBC to be pretty close to the dominant Swedish media actually.

I am willing to bet that a moderately conservative perspective in North America would be considered extremely right wing in Europe. This would explain some matters.

True. But remember that all western ideologies hail from Europe.

 

[Sabastian]

Didn't anyone ever tell you to shut up about things you know nothing about? Of those 9 milllion 1.5 million are first or second generation immigrants from all over the world.

heh, don't ask any questions about things you don't know about or anything of the sort. Please could you give me a link to a site that is legitimate that explains the breakdown of ethnics in Sweden. How many visible minorities, not simply other Europeans. Further what the educational and monetary background of the immigrants to Sweden is.(ie rich Frenchmen, Educated Germans..) I am willing to bet that the black population in Sweden is not remotely close to 15% of the population as it is in the US. (That accounts for approximately 40 000 000 blacks which is about 4.5 times the population of Sweden.)

As a side note do you always tell people to "shut up" when they are inquiring into matters that they would like to learn about? Now that could be interpreted as an awfully ill-mannered disposition.

Most media in Sweden are conservative, the biggest tabloid "aftonbladet" the most noteworthy exception.

I do not consider tabloid type media as legitimate but tabloids may be regarded differently in Europe or more specifically Sweden. Judging on the Big Government/ Big Spending / Big Taxation it seems that the state disregards the populous then. It would ether be that or the media are not against big government etc. In North America the conservative media focuses on less taxation and less spending and criticizes government intervention. In short I believe it to be far more critical of government in general.

I find BBC to be pretty close to the dominant Swedish media actually.

I find the BBC is sometimes a little too left wing oriented and the simple fact is that it is state run and owned much like Canada has with the left wing CBC. These guys know where their bread and butter is.

True. But remember that all western ideologies hail from Europe.

I am painfully aware of it. But the failure of Socialism, fascisms and Communism are a testament to the fact that Europe is not always right in their politics. I have always said (privately) that indeed Mid-Eastern countries are not threatened so much by what the US is doing in economic terms but rather what Europe is doing with their human rights agenda. But that is besides the point here and I do not what to get into a debate about how Europe is exporting their social agenda. heh Rather I would like to know exactly what all these "conservative" type medias in Sweden say.

 

[Moffell]

heh, don't ask any questions about things you don't know about or anything of the sort. Please could you give me a link to a site that is legitimate that explains the breakdown of ethnics in Sweden. How many visible minorities, not simply other Europeans. Further what the educational and monetary background of the immigrants to Sweden is.(ie rich Frenchmen, Educated Germans..) I am willing to bet that the black population in Sweden is not remotely close to 15% of the population as it is in the US. (That accounts for approximately 40 000 000 blacks which is about 4.5 times the population of Sweden.)

I have no links for you I just wonder why you don't think "Other europeans" would not be visible? Cultures in Europe are vastly different, there are no "Europeans" with a common property as some try to append to us. While there may be/are people that feel European (of which I'm one) they still don't feel they have particulary much in common with each other when dealing with their ordinary life. For instance I would feel a lot more at home in New York or Detroit than in Madrid or Rome or Prague. Could just be me and everybody I know though. :?

The largest immigrant group from a single country are the Finns I belive and they don't really stand out much at all and then there are large groups from the middle east, kurds, Iraqi's, turks and a whole slew of Ex Jugoslavs. The latter groups are much more noticable. As far as "blacks" go that doesn't put you in any particular ethnic group so "blacks" as a group doesn't exist in Sweden the way it does in USA.

In general (WARNING HUGE SWEEPING GENERALISATION AND THUS COMPLETELY USELESS) immigrants are less educated and thus also poorer. They also have a higher rate of unemployment, basically your lower class group. Not that there is anything surprising about this, lower classes have always existed and at this point in time they just happen to be mostly immigrants.

A more correct sentence would be that the lower class is made up from mostly immigrants and that other immigrant groups have succeded better.

do not consider tabloid type media as legitimate but tabloids may be regarded differently in Europe or more specifically Sweden. Judging on the Big Government/ Big Spending / Big Taxation it seems that the state disregards the populous then.

Aftonbladet isn't really a tabloid such as The Sun for instance. It has certainly moved in to tabloidesque waters for the last decade but it's not there yet IMO. As for your other comment I take great offence to that. It would imply that Swedish governments are not really elected and thus not influenced by the people.

In North America the conservative media focuses on less taxation and less spending and criticizes government intervention. In short I believe it to be far more critical of government in general.

I guess you are talking about American media here. Swedish media watches the government with a very critical eye, from left to right. Swedish media seems however to be less prone to pushing agendas for their owners which I think is a good thing.

I find the BBC is sometimes a little too left wing oriented and the simple fact is that it is state run and owned much like Canada has with the left wing CBC. These guys know where their bread and butter is

Interestingly the same comment can be made for private networks. Your finding seems to hold little water. It's not like the BBC pulls all its stops when it comes to scrutinizing the government. Can the same thing be said about FOX networks?

 

[Humus]

Sweden is not particularly diverse. Going to Canada the difference is striking. Most immigrants are from the other nordic countries. Here's some numbers, in swedish though, but should be fairly readable for non-swedes too:

http://immi.se/migration/statistik/20grupper.htm
Norge = Norway
Tyskland = Germany
Storbritannien = Great brittain

 

[Humus]

For example affirmative action type legislation would be considerably less controversial in Sweden where minorities are nearly non existent.

Not so sure about that. There are anti-discrimination laws, and these can be applied against affirmative action too. For instance in the university world there are very few women in high positions. Not too long ago there were some words from high policitians encouraging universities to hire more female professors, since at most 10% are women IIRC, probably less. So there was a university (forgot which) with an open position for a professor, and there were two main applicants, a man and a woman. The man had much better qualifications, but the university went ahead and hired the woman. It was brought to court though, and the university lost. The court made it clear that you can't discriminate in favor for a minority group either, so the university couldn't hire the women on the fact that's she a women alone.