EB AU denies the story BTW....
http://www.smh.com.au/news/biztech/faulty-xbox-yarn-is-nixed/2008/01/30/1201369215112.html
http://www.smh.com.au/news/biztech/faulty-xbox-yarn-is-nixed/2008/01/30/1201369215112.html
Supposed MS insider discusses RRoD errors, Falcon at 10% failure rate?
- Thread starter Asher
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I already mentioned Sony has commented.
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1120912&postcount=97
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=30428
lol What an awesome response. So what's that 1%?
That they had a defective batch that was sent back to microsoft. That part was true. Just the part about there being 25k consoles gathering dust in their store rooms, which now I think about it... Is completely illogical. Zachary Quinto will have my brain for that!
Don't believe everything you read about consoles?
The *Pink Bunnies will get you.
Large impact likely from RROD issue
This entire RROD issue is very interesting. The possibility of a major consumer backlash against the 360 seems very real. It is a mistake to assume that the majority of potential consumers of a next-gen media box out there do not care about the quality of the device. They are not going to make the same value judgement that many addicted gamers do. In fact, after browsing customer reviews of both PS3 and 360 products on Amazon, a huge disparity is evident, with many previous 360 owners warning others to stay far away from this product. I'm sure many will disagree, but I see this as very indicative of a major consumer backlash. The anonymous insider, whose interview began this thread, shows himself to be very knowledgable of his field, and so I feel is a credible source.
The insider's motivation is clearly explained in the interview: he views Microsoft's behavior as being very unethical, and that the management deserves to have their face in the mud for how they have regarded the consumer. That the product has had such a sustained high failure rate is very telling of a poorly designed system- if it wasn't so poorly designed, they would have fixed it long ago. So, the con game here is being called- the design failure of the 360 is very telling of their corporate attitude. I don't think Microsoft's potential customers are going to overlook this problem as their non-addictive status allows them to be more objective in their purchasing. As a consequence I'm betting that the 360 will largely stagnate in 2008. This is not something I would have expected before looking into how extensive the manufacturing problems are.
I also find this situation very disappointing, as I've been impressed with Microsoft's performance in helping to produce compelling content, but I'm afraid they've let us all down with a very substandard product. I wonder if Bungie's departure is related to this.
What Microsoft should have done is to wait until the hardware was ready. If they did that, who knows, maybe they would have had a more reliable and quieter machine that included an HD-DVD drive, and just maybe they would have won the HD war with their superior software?
If Microsoft succeeds, will they not see the benefit of their behavior, only to continue to do it in the future? How much has Window's security issues cost civilization? How much of a problem has IE caused the web? Microsoft clearly sees its behavior as rewarding as it continues to hold to the same philosophy: grab the market early at any cost, and fix the problems later.
As for 360 owners, for those who choose to stick with it, I totally understand the value you receive- if I had the time and inclination, I might just put up with a few returns myself.
This entire RROD issue is very interesting. The possibility of a major consumer backlash against the 360 seems very real. It is a mistake to assume that the majority of potential consumers of a next-gen media box out there do not care about the quality of the device. They are not going to make the same value judgement that many addicted gamers do. In fact, after browsing customer reviews of both PS3 and 360 products on Amazon, a huge disparity is evident, with many previous 360 owners warning others to stay far away from this product. I'm sure many will disagree, but I see this as very indicative of a major consumer backlash. The anonymous insider, whose interview began this thread, shows himself to be very knowledgable of his field, and so I feel is a credible source.
The insider's motivation is clearly explained in the interview: he views Microsoft's behavior as being very unethical, and that the management deserves to have their face in the mud for how they have regarded the consumer. That the product has had such a sustained high failure rate is very telling of a poorly designed system- if it wasn't so poorly designed, they would have fixed it long ago. So, the con game here is being called- the design failure of the 360 is very telling of their corporate attitude. I don't think Microsoft's potential customers are going to overlook this problem as their non-addictive status allows them to be more objective in their purchasing. As a consequence I'm betting that the 360 will largely stagnate in 2008. This is not something I would have expected before looking into how extensive the manufacturing problems are.
I also find this situation very disappointing, as I've been impressed with Microsoft's performance in helping to produce compelling content, but I'm afraid they've let us all down with a very substandard product. I wonder if Bungie's departure is related to this.
What Microsoft should have done is to wait until the hardware was ready. If they did that, who knows, maybe they would have had a more reliable and quieter machine that included an HD-DVD drive, and just maybe they would have won the HD war with their superior software?
If Microsoft succeeds, will they not see the benefit of their behavior, only to continue to do it in the future? How much has Window's security issues cost civilization? How much of a problem has IE caused the web? Microsoft clearly sees its behavior as rewarding as it continues to hold to the same philosophy: grab the market early at any cost, and fix the problems later.
As for 360 owners, for those who choose to stick with it, I totally understand the value you receive- if I had the time and inclination, I might just put up with a few returns myself.
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Amazon customer reviews = bullshit, I'd be surprised if half the people that post reviews there ever actually owned the product. The insider doesn't really say anything proving credibility. He says things that sound like they could be true, which anyone who paid enough enough attention could have done.
I've actually found Amazon customer reviews informative. Of course there's bullshit here and there but it's basically a forum(especially since you can reply to reviews). I like reading people's reviews for movies on there there's actually far less bs on there than at the imdb message boards.
I think Amazon is a good place to check on mainstream consumer attitudes. It is a well-known and respected retailer, and I don't think that the majority of customers writing reviews are lying about their personal experiences.
As for the credibility of the insider, everyone will make their own judgment, but my personal experience has long involved technical knowledge and intimately knowing people involved in high-tech manufacturing. So when I read the insider's answers, I have a very good understanding of what he is talking about.
As for whether Microsoft will remain a competent competitor in 2008, my prediction is just a guess based on my interpretation of what I've seen, and I'm completely open to the possibility that I might have totally missed something.
What does the retailer have to do with the reviews? Nothing. Anyone can create an account and essentially post about any product anonymously. See the Mass Effect fallout where like 1000 people created accounts and lambasted the fox news guest's book.
Can you point to something specifically in the article which requires someone to have any specific knowledge of the inner ongoings on MS? Everything is plausible enough, but that doesn't make him a real insider.
MS certainly isn't going anywhere now that the product has become profitable.
Might want to read up his follow-up answers to 8bitjoystick.com visitor's questions...
http://www.8bitjoystick.com/archives/jake_xboxfounder_answers_your_questions.php
I think it gives him slightly more credibility than what you suggest.
Tommy McClain
Which parts of his additional posting over what he said originally suggest he has slightly more credibility now, the part about "Insider knowledge"? This still doesn't indicate he has any real knowledge about actual early revision defect numbers and current revision defect numbers. He admits he left in March of 2005. If anything, I think it shows it's more likely the numbers he stated are fictional.
They work for MS , that`s a believable reason to lie, don`t you think ? Or maybe they just say what they`ve been told.
Anyway I never talked to a MS employee so I guess I have to believe you, the unknown anonymous internet source...
Yes, I realized someone would make that point when I was composing that post.
It just seemed like this guy had an ax to grind to try to push his own agenda. Also if I wanted to push my own agenda, I certainly wouldn't be doing it in these sparse few forum posts; I'd have a larger breaking story presented to wider audiences.
For what it's worth, most of those same MS-ites can't believe MS is buying Yahoo. Some even agree with the thinking that the bid of 44.6 Billion is about 44 billion overpriced. That certainly tells me they don't always tout the company line. Though maybe you're right, maybe the information they received directly from the company is a pure fabrication and because we know thats how most companies operate.
It just seemed like this guy had an ax to grind to try to push his own agenda. Also if I wanted to push my own agenda, I certainly wouldn't be doing it in these sparse few forum posts; I'd have a larger breaking story presented to wider audiences.
For what it's worth, most of those same MS-ites can't believe MS is buying Yahoo. Some even agree with the thinking that the bid of 44.6 Billion is about 44 billion overpriced. That certainly tells me they don't always tout the company line. Though maybe you're right, maybe the information they received directly from the company is a pure fabrication and because we know thats how most companies operate.
No slight intended to your sources, BRiT; I agree that they probably don't have any reason to lie to you. FWIW, I don't believe this anonymous MS insider, either. If he had the motivations he says he has, if he has already left the company, and especially if he is working with lawyers on some sort of suit, he has no reason to post anonymously.
That said, we have one very important piece of publicly verifiable information, and that's that MS expects costs related to an additional two years of RRoD warranty to reach $1 billion. Since that's enough to refurbish every Xbox 360 in existence at the time of the announcement, that's enough evidence for me of an eventual failure rate near 100%. Even if MS replaced, at full retail price, every failed Xbox, $1 billion is enough to cover a 40% failure rate. Based on this evidence, I don't think there's any way the failure rate could be a mere 10%.
scooby_dooby
Legend
I'd like to see your math there...
At the time of the announcement, July 2007, there was something like 12million 360's sold.
20% of that is 2.4 million * $400 = $960million.
$1 billion is nowhere near enough to cover a 40% failure rate, more like 20%. And that's ignoring the fact this money is supposed to cover all future failures, not just the existing units.
Mintmaster
Veteran
You said this before and let it slide, but now you've repeated it.
It's not just the extra two years. It's the total cost of this defect that they're pegging at $1B, and that's for all consoles produced up to that point. The only repair costs excluded from this figure are those done up to the financial quarter before the announcement.
Repair costs are hard to quantify. Who knows if every damaged unit can be serviced, and then there's shipping and customer service costs as well.
Wasn't the $1b split 50/50 to cover existing units and future problems?
Ohh no, that'd put the number at 10%...!!@@ zomg--------------------------------------
Incase I'm not clear I'm being sarcastic. The trouble with the internet is that as long as you are smart enough to string together your words to sound plausible, many people who read it will make that extra leap of faith and treat them as fact. Especially the young.
There is absolutely no way we can know all the details of MS financials when it comes to the xbox platform, all we know is that one figure. And to make assertions and statements of fact from what little is actually know is crazy. (Heck I've done it enough, and I feel like an idiot for it)
Most of the posters here are very intelligent people who don't have their own agenda, yet we still have failure rates being stated with high levels of confidence - in the last few posts! - ranging from less than 10% to 100%. Seriously, come on!
If this insider is a real person is irrelevant, if so and he/she even worked for MS is still irrelevant. Even if what he/she says is entirely true* is still irrelevant. At the end of the day it's words on a webpage. Form an opinion if you must but damnit don't treat it as fact.
*in his/her opinion
[note]
I don't mean to offend anyone I'm just *really* irritated today.
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