*spin-off* Console Launch Price Discussion

[McHuj]

The chips don't even exist yet. Assuming a 256-bit bus, you'd need 4Gb chips to put 8GB ram on it. GDDR5 4Gb chips are not currently available, and are not on any roadmap I know of.

I believe Hynix is supposed to start production of 4Gb modules this quarter. I can't find the link, but I've read it on this forum.

My guess going to 4GB required that. With 4Gb modules, it's only 8 chips.

 

[DJ12]

Well Sony have slashed their losses by 75% and seem to be betting the bank on being the best console this time round so it wouldn't surprise me if they did take a loss at the start and add more memory.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

I really can't see it having more GDDR5 than 4GBs and I don't think extra is even needed for this setup.

 

[ramr]

I hope $399 won't be "translated" into €399 or £399

Hmm, you eurofolks always seem to forget the VAT. That is why the direct translation of dollars to Euros make sense. In the US, our price does not include tax, plus we don't have a vat.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Hmm, you eurofolks always seem to forget the VAT. That is why the direct translation of dollars to Euros make sense. In the US, our price does not include tax, plus we don't have a vat.

You have sales tax (about 8% I believe) where we have 20% VAT, but you're right. A $400 console comes at a price to the consumer of $432, with 90 day warranty. Add ~$100 or whatever it is for extended warranty for a purchase price of $530. That $400 RRP would be ~€300 in the EU + 20% VAT would be €360. Add in higher costs for employment and business and statutory consumer protection, a list price of €400 isn't making anyone huge amounts of money over what the US pays. And €400 is about $540 - the same.

Oh, and a UK list price of £400 wouldn't be surprising as we often have deals here and companies pushing prices well below the list price. A £400 RRP might well result in £350 for what people are paying, those people thinking they're getting a great bargain with a 12.5% saving.

Where the EU does get shafted at times is download pricing.

 

[Averagejoe]

I don't think the 360 is selling for $299 right now, at least not a model with just the machine itself and a controller. That seems way too high.

PS3 is selling $249 regular, and 360 has undercut it this entire generation.

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I will be willing to pay $449 at launch, provided Orbis is 'the machine to get.'

If it has the parts, I will be willing to drop the money for it. Depending on how Playstation Meeting, GDC, and E3 goes will determine what price Sony will get from me

You can't go off by that model,because that would imply a gimp model,price for the premium model is 300

 

[Gradthrawn]

You can't go off by that model,because that would imply a gimp model,price for the premium model is 300

Fact is, you can get a fully functional 360 for $200 at retail price, or $180 pretty easily with all of the regular sales you can find at Amazon, Target, Walmart and Best Buy. Unless you want to install full games (not necessary to play them) or download several chunks of large content and keep it (also not necessary for the core experience), that edition is fully functional. More importantly, perhaps, even if you do want to do that stuff, you can get into a 360 for the prices mentioned above, and then deffer the additional costs for a drive out later if you so desire. So yes, you absolutely can go by that model's price.

Side note, that 4GB Slim makes for a perfect Media Extender. Not that many people care about that, even here.

 

[Averagejoe]

Fact is, you can get a fully functional 360 for $200 at retail price, or $180 pretty easily with all of the regular sales you can find at Amazon, Target, Walmart and Best Buy. Unless you want to install full games (not necessary to play them) or download several chunks of large content and keep it (also not necessary for the core experience), that edition is fully functional. More importantly, perhaps, even if you do want to do that stuff, you can get into a 360 for the prices mentioned above, and then deffer the additional costs for a drive out later if you so desire. So yes, you absolutely can go by that model's price.

Side note, that 4GB Slim makes for a perfect Media Extender. Not that many people care about that, even here.

Fact is most 360 since launch are premium not core like 20 va 80 last nunbers i heard,that model is design todo cost you even more on the long run.

In fact ir doesn't even play halo 4 online if you don't buy an hdd por pendrive with 8gb or more that model is gimped.

 

[Gradthrawn]

Fact is most 360 since launch are premium not core like 20 va 80 last nunbers i heard,that model is design todo cost you even more on the long run.

In fact ir doesn't even play halo 4 online if you don't buy an hdd por pendrive with 8gb or more that model is gimped.

Fair point about Halo 4, but that is exactly 1 and only 1 example (out of 941 listed titles). Even in that example, the single player campaign is just fine.

As for the sales split, the original Core model was gimped and I can't find any recent numbers of the sales split. The 4 GB Slim is not gimped (or at least not to anywhere near the degree the original was). As for your Halo 4 example, that could quite literally be fixed for $10. You're still no where near the cost of the HDD model.

$196 on Amazon right now, plus $10 for the thumb drive linked above. $206 and you can play every game.

 

[Arwin]

I'm going to guess $399/399 EUR for both.

 

[anexanhume]

How about 6GB of GDDR5. Is there a reason that's off the table?

BTW, I think I have more threads started by spinoffs than I do actual original threads

My take on the launch is that with the Wii U launching at 300/350, Nintendo essentially handed Sony and MS a gold star for a $400 price point. They can both easily demonstrate superior performance and services with the platforms they are likely to offer.

What about the idea of Sony offering a $400 and a $500 SKU? Make the $500 SKU "the one to get" and that could cover the cost difference between 4GB and 8GB of GDDR5. Perhaps they could add a larger hard drive and a free year of PS+ to the $500 SKU. I'd go for that in a heartbeat.

edit: Let's look at the PS3 launch SKU:

Let's construct a similar table (assumptions, feel free to correct)

AMD APU                   - $230
Optical Media             - $30
Memory (4GB/8GB)          - $100/$200
HDD                       - $30
USB                       - $5
Ethernet                  - $5
WiFi (a/b/g/n)            - combined with bluetooth
Bluetooth                 - $5
Other Components          - $80
Total                     - $485/$585

And supposedly, this table was accurate as of December 09

APU cost seems unlikely to be that high. I would expect in the $150 range given AMD sells even its largest CPUs to consumers for around $190 top. Suddenly they could be close to breaking even on a $500 console, even with 8GB.

 

[Bagel seed]

I would pay another $100 on top of $400 for each TF they can add. And up to $500 base for 8GB.

 

[anexanhume]

I would pay another $100 on top of $400 for each TF they can add. And up to $500 base for 8GB.

That ship has sailed. They know they have the competition bested so now it's a question of RAM. Devs always want more RAM, so it seems the most likely addition.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

That ship has sailed. They know they have the competition bested so now it's a question of RAM. Devs always want more RAM, so it seems the most likely addition.

I think the RAM thing has sailed also. Perhaps they did went from 2GB to 4GB as some rumours suggested. 6GB simply wont be happening imo, because it would need a 384bit memory bus, or some weird non symmetric config and it's a shit ton of memory chips. 4GB of GDDR5 for a console at this price range is nothing to complain about.

 

[liolio]

Pretty much in line with my expectations, 399$ for a "core" system sounds right.
If Sony sticks to his policies with regard to HDD replacement, I think they could go with the same kind of set-up as the cheapest ps3 (say 16GB of flash).

If they got the system with a HDD at 399$ I would think they are to have significant loss (at least before production lines are ironed out).

For a HDD solution 449$ sounds not unreasonable with such potent hardware.

It put the higher SKU at a pretty high price though.
I wonder if they could do like MSFT, selling their core SKU (no HDD, but flash) + move/eye toy at 499$.

Highest cold be 549$.

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MSFT I've no idea, I think they should be really close, and if Kinect is standard it should more expansive than the PS4.
I was making the assumption that MSFT may have cut price on their system to get at least one SKU with Kinect @ 399$ but I wonder now.
I think they could be likely to have a SoC too and one in the same ballpark as Sony, the difference is only the RAM.

Either way, MSFT is up to something risky (never know what will be public reaction/acceptance to it), they know how much games the gold members bought, they know ~the amount of people with a silver account bought, they may have an estimate about how much people hacked the console and never plug it again to their network. They may decide to really push hard for the subscription model.
Pretty much thinking that the people that buy few games (or worse hacked the system) are not worse the investment (subsidizing) to get on-board.
They could try (though it is risky as gold subscriber may decide to abandon ship and you are let with not much...) to sell at 199$ only one SKU and require a 2 years subscription to Live. Sounds a bit crazy but rumors (so iffy statement) have it that they could be asking for an always on connection so...

 

[Arwin]

Oh yes, I absolutely see potential for both of them to sell the console with a subscription model, $199 base price with two years of Xbox Live or PS Plus, perhaps with Xbox Music / Music Unlimited included.

 

[Bagel seed]

That ship has sailed. They know they have the competition bested so now it's a question of RAM. Devs always want more RAM, so it seems the most likely addition.

According to our good friend aegies, Orbis went through major hardware changes last summer. Something he never cared to offer up as news until recently, so I guess whatever it was is new news. And back then people were on the relatively equal in performance track so it will be interesting to see if these changes truly are major.

 

[liolio]

Oh yes, I absolutely see potential for both of them to sell the console with a subscription model, $199 base price with two years of Xbox Live or PS Plus, perhaps with Xbox Music / Music Unlimited included.

I keep forgetting on PSN+, I guess it is an option for Sony too ( I never tried the ps3 , and PSN+ came out late, I've done a bad job at keeping up with what Sony has been doing, quiet successfully of late).

Anyway, I've the odd feeling that MSFT could do shit, I mean of they have made so many mistakes with many product lines throughout the years , that nothing would surprise me at this point.
The thing that amazes me is that the top executives are still in charge (though the Windows guy left).

 

[anexanhume]

I think the RAM thing has sailed also. Perhaps they did went from 2GB to 4GB as some rumours suggested. 6GB simply wont be happening imo, because it would need a 384bit memory bus, or some weird non symmetric config and it's a shit ton of memory chips. 4GB of GDDR5 for a console at this price range is nothing to complain about.

I do as well. The prospect of GDDR5 price dropping considerably is not good over the life of the console, making price cuts difficult.

According to our good friend aegies, Orbis went through major hardware changes last summer. Something he never cared to offer up as news until recently, so I guess whatever it was is new news. And back then people were on the relatively equal in performance track so it will be interesting to see if these changes truly are major.

We have recent reports of dev kits having 8GB. They were also rumors of Orbis changing from a bulldozer core to jaguar cores. My guess is that a major change would have been upping the CUs with a lower power CPU, if one occurred at all.

 

[Bagel seed]

I do as well. The prospect of GDDR5 price dropping considerably is not good over the life of the console, making price cuts difficult.



We have recent reports of dev kits having 8GB. They were also rumors of Orbis changing from a bulldozer core to jaguar cores. My guess is that a major change would have been upping the CUs with a lower power CPU, if one occurred at all.

Yup, could be a range of things. Feb 20 will either be a surprise or just a reconfirmation of what we know. Either way there should be some of the former even if only from the games and tech demos