Sony VR Headset/Project Morpheus/PlayStation VR

[pjbliverpool]

Completely wrong I should think. Not unless you like vomiting anyway.

Your right stick and your head would be doing the same function.

I see no big reason why this wouldn't be possible on PC at least via modding. Alien Isolation apparently has a fairly reasonable VR mode despite not natively supporting it. Certainly 90fps will be no issue for PC's given the 60fps target on consoles.

 

[Deleted member 86764]

I see no big reason why this wouldn't be possible on PC at least via modding. Alien Isolation apparently has a fairly reasonable VR mode despite not natively supporting it. Certainly 90fps will be no issue for PC's given the 60fps target on consoles.

Just because it can be done doesn't mean it should be. From what I've seen the new Doom is quite a fast paced game and I understand that standard FPS games don't work well in VR and can cause sickness. Especially if you're controlling the view with two separate inputs.

 

[pjbliverpool]

Just because it can be done doesn't mean it should be. From what I've seen the new Doom is quite a fast paced game and I understand that standard FPS games don't work well in VR and can cause sickness. Especially if you're controlling the view with two separate inputs.

Why would you need to control the view with 2 separate inputs? Surely head movements would simply replace mouse movements? Obviously you would control body movement with the control pad but that would have to be the case for any VR game.

 

[Deleted member 86764]

If you like being wrapped in wires, then sure.

 

[pjbliverpool]

If you like being wrapped in wires, then sure.

How do you suppose current VR based FPS's work?

 

[Deleted member 86764]

Two control inputs for head movement.

 

[DieH@rd]

How do you suppose current VR based FPS's work?

They are focused on Time Crisis gameplay than on Doom [at least that was the case with what has shown by Sony, Oculus and Vive did not have official demos with gunplay]. There are of course a lot of experiments on DK1 and DK2, with HL2VR being one of the most polished ones. But even that system is most likely too fast paced for majority of users to enjoy it.

 

[MrFox]

I see no big reason why this wouldn't be possible on PC at least via modding. Alien Isolation apparently has a fairly reasonable VR mode despite not natively supporting it. Certainly 90fps will be no issue for PC's given the 60fps target on consoles.

Console target is either 90 or 120 or reprojected 120. There is no 60 mode on morpheus. 60 is not sufficient for VR, it gives nausea and I doubt sony would allow a dev to use 60.

There were a few interviews that explained classic FPS ports won't work in VR, they need to redesign the gameplay.

Alien isolation is more of an action adventure than a classic twitchy FPS. Horror, slow pace, fear, exploration...

Have you ever even tried one of the VR headsets? The things that work and the situations that cause nausea cannot be deduced intuitively. There's a lot of research going on right now, and you'd be better informed if you followed the devs instead of jumping to conclusions. It's not nearly as simple as you think.

 

[DieH@rd]

Console target is either 90 or 120 or reprojected 120. There is no 60 mode on morpheus. 60 is not sufficient for VR, it gives nausea and I doubt sony would allow a dev to use 60.

Devs have no way to use 60 on Morpheus. Every 60fps game is upsampled to 120fps.

 

[pjbliverpool]

Two control inputs for head movement.

That's not how Alien Isolation works, I'd be surprised if any FPS works that way in VR.

Console target is either 90 or 120 or reprojected 120. There is no 60 mode on morpheus. 60 is not sufficient for VR, it gives nausea and I doubt sony would allow a dev to use 60.

I'm was talking about Doom 4, it has a target of 60fps on consoles.

There were a few interviews that explained classic FPS ports won't work in VR, they need to redesign the gameplay.

Alien isolation is more of an action adventure than a classic twitchy FPS. Horror, slow pace, fear, exploration...

It's an FPS which allows mouse/head movements just as fast as any other FPS. Perhaps body movement speed is slower (certainly moreso than Doom 4), but there would be little difference in head movement. Still I can see how the faster body movement would have an impact on nausea.

 

[Deleted member 86764]

That's not how Alien Isolation works, I'd be surprised if any FPS works that way in VR

That's exactly how it works and how all normal converted FPSs do.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/214490/discussions/0/624076751544917591/

 

[pjbliverpool]

That's exactly how it works and how all normal converted FPSs do.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/214490/discussions/0/624076751544917591/

We're talking on cross purposes, you said, "Two control inputs for head movement.", that's not true, there is only one - the headset. However there are two control inputs which effect the viewpoint, I don't disagree with that.

I'm not sure what the thread you posted is supposed to prove though. There is grand total of 3 people in there that are experiencing motion sickness - in a Steam thread about motion sickness. I'm reasonably sure there are more than 3 people playing Alien Isolation in VR. The bottom line here that started this line of debate is will there be a VR option for Doom 4 or not? Are you 100% sure there will not be? Are you certain it's impossible?

 

[MrFox]

It's improbable. How about that?

 

[pjbliverpool]

It's improbable. How about that?

It releases around the same time as the headsets.... And it's Doom. We'll see....

 

[Nesh]

Why would you need to control the view with 2 separate inputs? Surely head movements would simply replace mouse movements? Obviously you would control body movement with the control pad but that would have to be the case for any VR game.

Dont think about "why".
Ask this: How do you turn/change direction in a FPS?
In traditional FPS the mouse controls not your head. It is the direction of your whole body and your head is always aligned to it.
If you turn your mouse right, your character looks to the right and this is the direction he will be moving to if you press forward.
With VR, the headset represents where your head looks at but not where your body faces.
This is why there are two inputs even though its wrong.
This is why in the link posted this is what one of the guys said:

Just tried again.. a few minutes and ..urgh

I was wrong. It's not that it doesn't walk in the direction I look but THAT it indeed walks in the direction I look just WITHOUT turning the body. That's wrong. Eighter it has to turn the body or not and if not it has to walk in the direction the body is not where you look at.

At the moment it's like that: if you don't always turn in synch with the mouse into the direction you look and walk you know something doesn't match and that gives a very unpleasant feeling. The missmatch feeling is even stronger due to the point that it behaves again different for the up and down. If you move the mouse to look down nothing happens.

So you have to match left right with the mouse which also turns your look direction but up down with mouse doesn't do a thing..not moveing your view.
That is the second conflict. Because you expect it to move/behave the same but it doesn't.

This 2 points sounds marginal but I believe that what's makeing this Game unpleasant if you play it with oculus rift. Any wrong movements at once generates a sick feeling in VR at least for me.

@Gupster
Thanks for you input. So it's not just me. And yes I possible might get aclimated to it the same way you did. But for today I more believe that's it I can forget to play this game with the rift. That wrong motion kills me. Don't even need an alien for it.

The only solution to this is to have a wireless headset and sit on a desk chair that rotates 360 degrees. This will eliminate the need for the "extra" input. You can turn your body and head at any direction you want and even when they are not aligned, you will know instncitvely that pressing forward will move you in the virtual world to where your hands are looking at.

 

[MrFox]

It releases around the same time as the headsets.... And it's Doom. We'll see....

It's possible if they worked on it from the start for VR. Did they?

 

[hughJ]

It's possible if they worked on it from the start for VR. Did they?

I'd highly doubt there'll be a VR mode for Doom considering:
a) Carmack left id software over Zenimax refusing to be supportive of future VR-enabled id games (Doom4)
b) are still in the middle of a lawsuit with Carmack/Oculus, so this is hardly water under the bridge for them
c) action/deathmatch FPS without strict 1:1 motion tracked orientation and translation is probably the least comfortable form of VR you can get.

Despite Valve making half a dozen variations of HMD + mouse control schemes for TF2, you still need a stomach of iron to play the game at the usual frenetic pace. I thought I had a stomach of iron, but trying to play TF2 at a fast pace for ~15min resulted in me having to lie down for an hour with my eyes closed (basically like a bad hangover.) I'd suspect that Doom4 wouldn't be any better. There are schemes here that do feel very intuitive, but one way or another you're still stuck with needing to constantly assist your yaw and motion with a mouse/keyboard/gamepad which gets increasingly uncomfortable the more you do it. Plodding FPS gameplay like Alien Isolation, System Shock, Thief, etc where you're encouraged to take your time is probably as far as one would want to go for simple assisted control schemes.

( https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Oculus_Rift_User_Guide#Console_variables_.28convars.29 )
vr_moveaim_mode: options for controlling movement and aim. Modes 0 through 4 are all interesting to try. 5 and above are probably not. Mode 3 is the default.

• 0: Aiming and steering are coupled on the rift. The mouse steers as well. This is a good mode for use with a control pad.
• 1: Aiming with the rift, steering with the mouse. This mode may be buggy and "drift" after a while.
• 2: Steering has a dead zone. Inside the dead zone you aim with the rift and the mouse aims and steers simultaneously. Outside the dead zone aiming and steering are coupled for both the rift and mouse.
• 3: Steering with the rift, aiming with the mouse inside a dead zone. Outside the dead zone the mouse steers as well.
• 4: Relative camera control with the rift (no influence on aiming or steering, relative to your character's facing direction). Mouse is as mode 3 combining aiming and steering with a dead zone.
• 5: Absolute camera control with the rift. Your reference is not tied to your character's orientation so steering with the mouse does not influence the direction in which you look. You must actually turn around to see where you're going if your character turns around. Aiming and steering is coupled and controlled with the mouse. This mode should play well with a wireless controller and could give you a good sense of direction within the map.
• 6: Relative camera control with the rift. Aiming and steering is coupled and controlled with the mouse.
• 7: Rift input is not used, so you only get stereoscopic vision. Aiming and steering is coupled and controlled with the mouse.

 

[Deleted member 86764]

I'm pretty sure I'll be sticking with the "cockpit" games until some decent control scheme is worked out.

Sony are actually developing a first person shooter, Rigs I think, and you still control with two inputs. Apparently that works well as the HUD is locked from within the robot you're controlling. So you always know the front side.

Besides, I'm pretty certain Doom (or any other standard FPS) won't be coming to VR. Unless it's hacked to do so.

Games, including FPSs, will need to be developed from the ground up for them to work and not spoil the experience.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

How about rendering the player avatar as a 'cockpit'? Have it so you can see you legs and arms - then you know which way forwards is.

 

[Deleted member 86764]

I'd imagine turning >180 will still cause issues with wires. Also your seated position.

London Heist works well as you're facing the direction you need to be looking, with your back to a wall or the seat of a car.

Otherwise I guess the games would have to have extra sensitive look, so you looking 90 turns the character 180, but I imagine that'd also be disorienting.

Edit: sorry yes, similar to Rigs. I guess it could do. I suspect the seated driving games, etc would work best though.

I remember watching a video on YouTube of some people that came with a good solution. Can't remember what it's called though...