Sony VR Headset/Project Morpheus/PlayStation VR

[eastmen]

Yeah but it's really shitty marketing as anyone will immediately think about the PS4 much better GPU and low level API. MS xbox marketing effort have been about the games, and away from numbers, it was their most successful angle last year. Now he said "requires the highest performance". That's PC. On console that's PS4.

We could be surprised, but now I think they have nothing for XB1. They would be shooting themselves in the foot with that remark, but instead it could have been preemptive strike to reduce Morpheus as not being the highest performance...which is required. It would be FUD but correct marketing compared to the alternative blunder.

If you want to look at it that way. Of course the other way to look at it is the consoles (xbox one/ps4) are the stepping stone to the pc and the highest performance. So you have a one or get a one for its low entry cost ($350 right now) and you get a rift and enjoy vr. Then you step up to the highest performance with the pc. Unlike Morpheus you don't have to buy a new headset.

That would put the rift ahead of the vive for me easily.

The ps4 already has to resort to outside hardware to make an acceptable performance level for the Morpheus. I would say that 1080p 30fps is better than 900p 30fps but I'm not sure it would be a large enough difference for most to complain outside of forums.

 

[MrFox]

Morpheus doesn't resort to external hardware for performance, that was the 2014 public prototype having a true interpolator which caused unacceptable latency, Microsoft would have the same problem. As far as we know, now the box simply unwraps and pass through to the display as a social convenience. The async reprojection we are talking about is done by the PS4 and takes a negligible amount of GPU. (in it's current form)

 

[eastmen]

http://uploadvr.com/oculus-rift-room-scale/

You can use multiple rift constellation tracking systems together

The Constellation sensor sits mounted on a stand that is about ten inches tall – based on this rough scale comparison between it and my iPhone 5s.
We asked Iribe about those kind of experiences and whether we would be able to see them on the Rift and the answer was music to our ears.

“Constellation will allow for a bigger room area,” says Oculus CEO Brendan Iribe, “so you will be able to move around in it – and we have a number of different things that we are going to be talking about as we move forward on this.”
The HTC Vive uses a combination of two tracking sensors to create a trackable space of about 15’x15′ – with the capacity to add more sensors to enhance the trackable volume and space. It looks like Oculus will be following suit. “We do support multiple sensors,” says Iribe, “It doesn’t require you to mount things on your walls – but you can if you want to. We’ve made it so the sensor has a standard screw hole that you can screw in if you want to mount them in different places.”

 

[eastmen]

According to Kudo Tsunoda the Xbox one Streams directly to Oculus rift. No intermediary PC necessary. More Xbox VR and AR to come at E3 keynote.

So I guess the rift is plugging into the xbox one ? or wifi direct ?

Talks about it in this video

 

[MrFox]

Phil Spencer statement is "Another key area for us that we talked in January, was the ability to stream xbox one games to windows 10 devices, it's important to be able to bring [..] xbox one games to PCs and tablets everywhere. I'm really proud to announce that this same streaming capability will be available for oculus rift."

Oculus requires a windows 10 PC.

Morpheus requires a PS4. Hey look I just segue back on topic!

 

[MrFox]

I'm looking at the media and gamers reception of this streaming weird thing, and it oscillates between "this is useless" and "this is hilarious". If microsoft doesn't have a VR headset at E3 this year they forfeit console VR to Sony until next gen. This would really slow down third parties commitment.

 

[eastmen]

I'm looking at the media and gamers reception of this streaming weird thing, and it oscillates between "this is useless" and "this is hilarious". If microsoft doesn't have a VR headset at E3 this year they forfeit console VR to Sony until next gen. This would really slow down third parties commitment.

They only hate it because its MS . Once they showed the One controller neogaf completely turned again the stream. It was fun to watch.

Gear VR has the same mode and I bet you will have something similar on Morpheus to play older games on it or to watch videos.

Its just a small bonus from a feature they already made

 

[hesido]

Xbox would have a hard time outputting 90hz without massively reducing fidelity, so it would have to go with 45fps-60fps with asynchronous time warping.

They only hate it because its MS . Once they showed the One controller neogaf completely turned again the stream. It was fun to watch.

Gear VR has the same mode and I bet you will have something similar on Morpheus to play older games on it or to watch videos.

Its just a small bonus from a feature they already made

The reaction was because it was revealed earlier in the stream than half moon, people thought Oculus didn't try to do anything useful in the input side of things.

 

[MrFox]

They only hate it because its MS . Once they showed the One controller neogaf completely turned again the stream. It was fun to watch.

Gear VR has the same mode and I bet you will have something similar on Morpheus to play older games on it or to watch videos.

Its just a small bonus from a feature they already made

Yes we know about the virtual theater. The problem is how he introduced this as playing xbox one games in VR, and something they are extremely proud of. The room was expecting VR xbox games. This is a very minor feature that everybody have.

Did you watch the uncut video? At the end of the demo, the crowd was dead silent, and then some started laughing as Phil waited for applause that never came. He tried to recover by saying "did she crash? Is that why you're laughing?". That crowd was cheering at the xbox one controller (because it's a great idea). These are game journalists and windows gamers at a conference presenting a windows peripheral. The victim argument doesn't stick here.

 

[eastmen]

I watched the stream as it was live , didn't you see my post of me updating the thread as it happened ?

Anyway yes I heard the crowd being dead silent. Its obvious its a quick feature they were able to throw in and was there to highlight the partnership.

Oculus has what 8-12 months before they release the rift ? So to expect them to announce every little thing today is silly.

Valve has a 3d controller and a steam controller

Sony has a 3d controller and a steam controller

People are upset that now Oculus has a 3d controller and an xbox controller. It makes no sense at all.

The xbox one controller makes a lot of sense , its had years of development , MS has been iterating on it since the original xbox . It's supported by all the major engines also. Oculus had to pay 0 to develop it and since the controller most likely costs around $10 to make (www.dailytech.com/Xbox+360+Controller+Costs+11+To+Make/article943.htm) they will prob get it for a song and a dance to include with the rift.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

it shouldn't be a problem with an external scaler / interpoler .

Creating 90 Hz from a 60 Hz feed will be rubbish. Either it'll be uneven frame timing, or they'll introduce lag and need a meaty interpolator as with TVs with whatever rendering artefacts that introduces, which I imagine will be extremely disruptive in VR.

The OVR+MS partnership makes sense, but I can't see how MS is going to handle a high enough quality experience on XB1. They could do with a 120 Hz solution just like Sony. Is there any way XB1 can create a 90 Hz output over HDMI?

 

[eastmen]

Creating 90 Hz from a 60 Hz feed will be rubbish. Either it'll be uneven frame timing, or they'll introduce lag and need a meaty interpolator as with TVs with whatever rendering artefacts that introduces, which I imagine will be extremely disruptive in VR.

The OVR+MS partnership makes sense, but I can't see how MS is going to handle a high enough quality experience on XB1. They could do with a 120 Hz solution just like Sony. Is there any way XB1 can create a 90 Hz output over HDMI?

30fps to 90fps would be fine. Also the dk2 had an adjustable refresh rate. the cv1 could also have one. Also 45fps into 90fps would be fine. I

Xbox one is hdmi 1.4 its capable of

4096x2160@24hz
3804x2160 24/25/30
1920x1080 @ 120hz

So I think they would be fine getting a 90hz out of the system

 

[pjbliverpool]

http://uploadvr.com/oculus-rift-room-scale/

You can use multiple rift constellation tracking systems together

Holy crap I can create my own holodeck!

 

[cheapchips]

30fps to 90fps would be fine. Also the dk2 had an adjustable refresh rate. the cv1 could also have one. Also 45fps into 90fps would be fine. I

Xbox one is hdmi 1.4 its capable of

4096x2160@24hz
3804x2160 24/25/30
1920x1080 @ 120hz

So I think they would be fine getting a 90hz out of the system

Are you sure about that? My understanding was that time warp could only account for so much movement. At 30-45fps it would behave more like frame doubling and be too laggy.

 

[eastmen]

Are you sure about that? My understanding was that time warp could only account for so much movement. At 30-45fps it would behave more like frame doubling and be too laggy.

According to Mr Fox sony is using a software interpolator. I don't see why MS can't do the same thing. Sony is suggesting 30/60 to 120. Best case there is interpolating double the frames . 45 to 90 fps would be double the frames.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

30fps to 90fps would be fine.

Except you'll have 30 fps games with 30 fps animation. It might work okay, but it'd be a significant compromise to the experience I think.

Also 45fps into 90fps would be fine.

45 fps is not supported as an XB1 output though, is it?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

According to Mr Fox sony is using a software interpolator. I don't see why MS can't do the same thing. Sony is suggesting 30/60 to 120. Best case there is interpolating double the frames . 45 to 90 fps would be double the frames.

They're not interpolating. Sony are offsetting the camera at 120 Hz to keep up with head movements. The in game refresh is 60 fps, so people's running animations and jumping movements and scenery passing in a racecar are all 60 fps. The choice of 120 Hz is to keep the VR presence with the low latency, fast tracking, and as a direct multiple of the video game refresh rate. 45 to 90 would work but you need a 45 fps video output, and the animation would start to be compromised in fluidity. 2D motion blur probably doesn't work so well in VR so it'll be harder to convey fluid motion.

 

[eastmen]

Except you'll have 30 fps games with 30 fps animation. It might work okay, but it'd be a significant compromise to the experience I think.
45 fps is not supported as an XB1 output though, is it?

why wouldn't the XB1 be able to output 45 fps ? HDMI 1.4 can do 1920x1080p. The rift only has a hdmi 1.3 connection so if that's enough for a pc to send 1200x1080p x2 at 90fps i'm sure hdmi can send the same at least.

They're not interpolating. Sony are offsetting the camera at 120 Hz to keep up with head movements. The in game refresh is 60 fps, so people's running animations and jumping movements and scenery passing in a racecar are all 60 fps. The choice of 120 Hz is to keep the VR presence with the low latency, fast tracking, and as a direct multiple of the video game refresh rate. 45 to 90 would work but you need a 45 fps video output, and the animation would start to be compromised in fluidity. 2D motion blur probably doesn't work so well in VR so it'll be harder to convey fluid motion.

So why would MS not be able to do the same but offset at 90hz ? Some games for sony might refresh at 60fps but sony said 30fps would also work.

 

[pjbliverpool]

They're not interpolating. Sony are offsetting the camera at 120 Hz to keep up with head movements. The in game refresh is 60 fps, so people's running animations and jumping movements and scenery passing in a racecar are all 60 fps. The choice of 120 Hz is to keep the VR presence with the low latency, fast tracking, and as a direct multiple of the video game refresh rate. 45 to 90 would work but you need a 45 fps video output, and the animation would start to be compromised in fluidity. 2D motion blur probably doesn't work so well in VR so it'll be harder to convey fluid motion.

Would there really be a problem with 60->90? You'd just re-project every third frame as opposed to Sony's solution that re-projects every second frame. You would still get a unique frame on every refresh but 2 out of 3 would be fully rendered, while 1 out of 2 would be in Sony's solution.

I understand that re-projecting every other frame gives a more even output in theory but since every frame is unique anyway at the displays native refresh, do we know if that actually matters?

On a slightely related note, from what I've read, and I may just be off on my understanding here, I thought the PC implementation actually re-projects every single frame insofar as that frame is rendered, and then just before it gets sent to the display it's offset to match the latest head position. Do we know if Sony's solution does the same? Or have I got that wrong altogether?

 

[pjbliverpool]

Phil Spencer statement is "Another key area for us that we talked in January, was the ability to stream xbox one games to windows 10 devices, it's important to be able to bring [..] xbox one games to PCs and tablets everywhere. I'm really proud to announce that this same streaming capability will be available for oculus rift."

Oculus requires a windows 10 PC.

I think you're interpreting that wrong. The sentence reads as xbox one = source, PC and tablets = destination. He then adds OR in as an additional destination, i.e. seperate from the PC and tablets.