Sony VR Headset/Project Morpheus/PlayStation VR

[Shifty Geezer]

If it was a finished product, yes nothing can be done... It is probably better to receive the feedback now than a few months before release...

Which is what eastmen is doing. Or should he not voice his concerns and then see that the product doesn't fit?

 

[Scott_Arm]

Sounds like a great headset, from everything I've read. I haven't seen the price mentioned. Have they announced the price yet?

 

[chris1515]

In FPS games they have to start by making movement speed 1:1 and get rid of sticks to input movement. Pointing "move" to the physical direction you want to walk is a way better solution. You could even use left hand "move" to point movement and right hand "move" to hold gun and shooting. The dissociation between your brain and movement (that causes nausea) would be far less this way because at least you would have your movement pointing arm as a physical clue to your brain of where are you walking to, decreasing dissociation.

I think it would be much easier to play to a Killzone 2 FPS on VR than a Quake 3 FPS. VR FPS need to be more rooted in reality set of movement.

 

[chris1515]

Which is what eastmen is doing. Or should he not voice his concerns and then see that the product doesn't fit?

I just say that it is not a big concern before they show the final product. Engadget is not a little obscure website they probably read the critic now they are thinking about final product. It is only what I said after I don't know if there is a category for the man with the biggest head in the world in the Guiness Record but the final product will probably not working for this guy.

They probably work with statistics of population. I see another concern about comfort on Ars comment but on the other side of the scope children, women or people with a little head:

I bought an Oculus DK2, the screen door effect is minimal but yes it does exist. The larger problem I had was the very small range of IPD (inter-pupillary distance) measurements it supported. The DK2 supports a range that is basically only good for "average sized males". If you're a woman the average female IPD is outside the supported range on the narrow end, if you're a larger than average man you'll probably be outside the supported range on the wide end. Even people whose general physical parameters are mostly average can still have IPDs outside the supported range.

How big a deal is this? Well I had to sell my DK2 on Ebay because it was unusably blurry (even after I bought a 3D printed third party bracket designed to adjust the IPD, it was still too far off at just a few mm).

I don't want to be negative, I LOVE the idea of this technology and the DK2 was certainly capable of some impressive things but it is very difficult to optimize the experience. You need hardware adjustable lens separation in order to get the IPD right (something neither Rift released has supported and that has not be commented on officially by Oculus that I have seen) and the software configuration is also very "techy" by which I mean you have to have some idea what you're doing, or at least be willing and capable of reading and understanding the directions, to configure the experience properly. It's nearly impossible for someone else to configure a Rift for you because the configuration depends heavily on the individual and their eyes. You can have a generic setup that is "good enough" for most people to enjoy the experience at a trade show but setting it up for several hours of use at a stretch requires much more work.

And this is where my concern with Morpheus comes in:

Sony is going to be targeting PS4 users, this is going to include a LOT of kids and if they don't make the lens spacing hardware adjustable those kids are going to get bad headaches from the blurred vision they experience, if they don't make the software configuration options easy to use and understand the same thing is going to happen. You can easily end up giving yourself a migraine with these things and while I doubt there will be any permanent damage if you're giving kids a headache when they use it that is going to be a problem.

Also a parent can't set up a headset for a kid. You can't put it on, adjust it to look right for you, and then hand it to your kid and expect it to be ok for them. They may think it's fine at first but an hour in they're going to be feeling different.

Frankly, I'm really worried that a large scale release to consumers, especially a lot of parents and children, is going to harm the potential of the technology. There are going to be a lot of bad experiences and people are going to be put off by those experiences and second hand stories.

I really wanted to see the next generation of gaming hardware ship with headsets in the box, I honestly think that is a realistic possibility but this generation? Especially this soon, I just can't imagine Sony has worked out enough of the problems yet for this to be a good idea.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I just say that it is not a big concern before they show the final product.

So no-one should be questioning it? We get this with every frickin' pre-release showing - someone critiques what they see and then some folk say they shouldn't be forming an opinion because it's not final. There's zero wrong with questioning/criticising/complimenting an unfinished product, and such discussion is the very bedrock of smart debate - otherwise you just have a big ol' love-in with everyone gushing how awesome something is and turning a blind-eye to potential problems because "it's not finished yet and we imagine every concern (we don't voice) will be addressed and we'll have a perfect product at launch" as if products with significant issues have never happened before (Sony HMZ1 comfort issues, for example).

 

[chris1515]

So no-one should be questioning it? We get this with every frickin' pre-release showing - someone critiques what they see and then some folk say they shouldn't be forming an opinion because it's not final. There's zero wrong with questioning/criticising/complimenting an unfinished product, and such discussion is the very bedrock of smart debate - otherwise you just have a big ol' love-in with everyone gushing how awesome something is and turning a blind-eye to potential problems because "it's not finished yet and we imagine every concern (we don't voice) will be addressed and we'll have a perfect product at launch" as if products with significant issues have never happened before (Sony HMZ1 comfort issues, for example).

I never said I just tell don't be afraid it is an unfinished product. Engadget journalist tell his concern and it is good after we have to wait and see or to write about it in official playstation forum... After if eastmen has problem with hat product, it could be a problem with VR headset, I agree.

Be out of the norm is a problem for many things and I can understand the problem like everyone and hope it will be resolved in final product...

 

[chris1515]

I think the explanation of eastmen concern is much better than the engadget journalist because he does not say what is his headsize... It gives the impression the headset will be uncomfortable for everyone.

I had not read engadget article just eastmen post...

 

[iroboto]

I never said I just tell don't be afraid it is an unfinished product. Engadget journalist tell his concern and it is good after we have to wait and see or to write about it in official playstation forum... After if eastmen has problem with hat product, it could be a problem with VR headset, I agree.

Be out of the norm is a problem for many things and I can understand the problem like anyone and hope it will be resolved in final product...

Sizing per person is a fundamental challenge for all VR headsets. As soon as you can wear it the biggest obstacles is making sure that the user experience is comfortable. I think this article sums it up well: (How to Survive a Week of Virtual Reality) http://www.polygon.com/2015/3/2/8134273/gdc-valve-oculus-razer-vr

Any issue with the fitting, calibration, latency, frame rate, you name it insert issue, will likely increase the possibility of sickness. I find this to be VR's greatest challenge and tackling these problems is much more important that tackling resolution, or graphical fidelity for games for instance. Yes you'll get a small screen door effect with lower resolution, and games won't look as good if you have to detune it for 120fps, but it doesn't matter, VR is a completely different experience and you'll enjoy it differently than you would other games. That being said, removing the screen door would be nice, but I don't need Order1886 level graphics on a VR headset to enjoy the game.

On that note: I'm not sure if i want to play a P.T. VR game if it looks as good as the PS4 version. That's just a form of mental torture I'm unsure I need to subject myself to.

 

[chris1515]

Sizing per person is a fundamental challenge for all VR headsets. As soon as you can wear it the biggest obstacles is making sure that the user experience is comfortable. I think this article sums it up well: (How to Survive a Week of Virtual Reality) http://www.polygon.com/2015/3/2/8134273/gdc-valve-oculus-razer-vr

Any issue with the fitting, calibration, latency, frame rate, you name it insert issue, will likely increase the possibility of sickness. I find this to be VR's greatest challenge and tackling these problems is much more important that tackling resolution, or graphical fidelity for games for instance. Yes you'll get a small screen door effect with lower resolution, and games won't look as good if you have to detune it for 120fps, but it doesn't matter, VR is a completely different experience and you'll enjoy it differently than you would other games. That being said, removing the screen door would be nice, but I don't need Order1886 level graphics on a VR headset to enjoy the game.

On that note: I'm not sure if i want to play a P.T. VR game if it looks as good as the PS4 version. That's just a form of mental torture I'm unsure I need to subject myself to.

I didn't finish outlast and P.T without VR, I can't imagine finishing this two games with it...

 

[iroboto]

I didn't finish outlast and P.T without VR, I can't imagine finishing this two games with it...

lol I know, I watched some youtube and had to shut it off. I got some vertigo just looking over a cliff in VR. I get that sweating feeling when I watch videos of people free-climbing super high towers. P.T in VR will likely scar me like I'm a 6 year old child again.

 

[Scott_Arm]

Bundling for this thing will be weird. You need the camera, and you probably need two move controllers. Some people already own the camera, so how do you bundle without it becoming confusing?

bundle 1 - headset, camera, two controllers
bundle 2 - headset, two controllers
bundle 3 - headset (not really a bundle)

They need to keep it under $400, and I think that's doable for a complete bundle. $300 would be great.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Sizing per person is a fundamental challenge for all VR headsets. As soon as you can wear it the biggest obstacles is making sure that the user experience is comfortable...Any issue with the fitting, calibration, latency, frame rate, you name it insert issue.

For me, interocular distance is an issue. Having close, shifty eyes, conventional spectacles are always obtrusive. 3D in the cinema means the glasses bridge being very visible to me. A headset will need to either work for all eye spacings, or be adjustable.

Or basically, there's no such thing as a standard face. Human faces are incredibly diverse and coming up with something that works for all of them is tricky. Sony needs to come up with as much feedback and tuning now as possible to get something that'll work for everyone. An elegantly engineered solution would probably be quite an impressive solution. I'm thinking the two internal lenses should be fairly freely positionable. I think it's quite the challenge.

 

[MrFox]

Comfort is a legitimate concern, and it's a question that should be treated rationally. Ben Gilbert of engadget is one person, and shouldn't be elevated as more important than dozens of other journalists who said the opposite.

Personally I haven't tried Morpheus, only DK2 so I have no opinion yet.

A quick google got me this...

www.pcpro.co.uk
"It's lighter and more comfortable than the Oculus Rift DK2"

metro.co.uk
"Project Morpheus - currently the more comfortable option"

www.primagames.com
"When it comes to overall comfort [..] Sony's unique design wins by just a hair."

www.forbes.com
"I found it more comfortable to wear than Oculus Rift's DK2"

www.rollingstone.com
"Comfort: WINNER: Project Morpheus"

business.financialpost.com
"similar, although the Morpheus sat better on my head because it seemed better balanced."

ign.com
"One of the most surprising elements of Project Morpheus was how comfortable it was to use."

www.polygon.com
"The new version of Sony's Project Morpheus is the most comfortable virtual reality headset I have ever worn."

cnet.com
"easily the most comfortable VR experience to date, with Oculus' Crescent Bay prototype a close second."

 

[DieH@rd]

2 more interesting articles

Wired - http://www.wired.com/2015/03/sony-ps4-project-morpheus-release-date/?mbid=social_twitter

Polygon opinion "The PlayStation 4 is already leading the virtual reality arms race, here's why" - http://www.polygon.com/2015/3/4/8147397/playstation-4-virtual-reality-morpheus

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Comfort is a legitimate concern, and it's a question that should be treated rationally. Ben Gilbert of engadget is one person, and shouldn't be elevated as more important than dozens of other journalists who said the opposite.

Unless you've got a big head and Ben Gilbert has a big head and the other journalists haven't. The current summary is that Morpheus is a great fit for most users. If we want to be really specific, we need to evaluate the reporting populace and compare them to the full domain of People. We can exclude children from the reporting, so have no idea how well Morpheus is going to work with your 7 year old and 10 year old (maybe they're not supposed to use it?!). The demographic is also, I'm assuming, very male dominated. There could be a good....20% of head size/shape combinations that aren't getting covered for whom Morpheus will be an issue. Or not.

This is probably less bothersome for those who have always lied within the majority of the bell curve. If you've never had extra small feet or extra large feet or small hands or shorter arms and spent ages looking for clothes/shoes/spectacles/whatever to fit, finding very little choice because you're not an economical target for the producers, worries about whether something will work with you or not are probably next to nil and you are (subconsciously) confident it'll fit thanks to experience. Those with experience of being an outlier will be more likely to voice their concerns.

Saying far more than needed on this very unimportant matter!

What's really needed is a 'mod scene'. If the design is open to customisations, these can adapt to far more people than a one-size-fits-all solution.

 

[Scott_Arm]

Another concern I have, which is basically a concern for all living room VR connecting to console, is ... well ... connecting it to the console. PS4, Xbox One etc only have one HDMI output. Is this thing going to come with an HDMI splitter? Unplugging the HDMI cable to the tv, and then plugging in a longer HDMI cable to reach your seated area isn't exactly a great solution. Unless this thing is doing streaming video, which would be awesome if the quality is high enough.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Is this thing going to come with an HDMI splitter?

That's in the break-out box.

 

[Scott_Arm]

That's in the break-out box.

Perfect.

 

[Deleted member 86764]

Having close, shifty eyes

Oh jeez, I see you as Little Face in my mind's eye now.

 

[MrFox]

For me, interocular distance is an issue. Having close, shifty eyes, conventional spectacles are always obtrusive. 3D in the cinema means the glasses bridge being very visible to me. A headset will need to either work for all eye spacings, or be adjustable.

Or basically, there's no such thing as a standard face. Human faces are incredibly diverse and coming up with something that works for all of them is tricky. Sony needs to come up with as much feedback and tuning now as possible to get something that'll work for everyone. An elegantly engineered solution would probably be quite an impressive solution. I'm thinking the two internal lenses should be fairly freely positionable. I think it's quite the challenge.

I agree I would really prefer an IPD adjustment, I was suprised neither Oculus nor Morpheus have one.

But from my limited understanding of optical systems, the problem is partially going away because both Oculus and Morpheus are now using a larger lens and a fresnel system. The old bulbous bi-convex lens was very finicky to center correctly, but a flatter fresnel that sits further away significantly widens the range where the image is clear. To adjust the 3D separation, they can still do that from the engine (just do the correct projection for the IPD in the system firmware, like they did for 3D where we enter the size of our screen) but that would shift the FOV. It should be a very small shift.

This is not an easy problem to fix.

http://www.cnet.com/products/sony-project-morpheus/

It also appeared to have a focal point that's improved over the Oculus Rift's. With the Rift, the goggles had to be smushed into my face as close as possible to deliver a clear image; however, images on Morpheus were in focus even with the goggles inches away.

This was before oculus changed their optics to be more similar to Morpheus. The latest oculus should have a similar behaviour or a less finicky positioning, which would naturally solve the non-adjustable IPD.