Sony VR Headset/Project Morpheus/PlayStation VR

Discussion in 'VR and AR' started by jayco, Mar 19, 2014.

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  1. MrFox

    MrFox Deludedly Fantastic
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    It's a big assumption but I would read it as unlikely to be below 300 and unlikely to be above 500. (personally I'm back to square one)

    EDIT: as a reference this was Yoshida's statement last year when they unveiled the new OLED prototype.
    The two statement have a different context. The one last month was about the price target (same as a launching console), while the above was relative to cost versus BOM being like a console (no profit) as opposed to a peripheral (lots of profit).

    If we combine the two we get a BOM somewhere around $400 for a selling price around $400.
     
    #2561 MrFox, Jan 18, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2016
  2. chris1515

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    All this feature aren't available in Direct X 12 some feature are probably in Vulkan/Open GL or will be avalable in next DX12 revision...
     
    #2562 chris1515, Jan 18, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2016
  3. Shifty Geezer

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    Yeah, about the same price as a console could mean more expensive. But I think 'price of a console' has a realistic upper limit of $400 as that's the average price and t'd be daft to refer to an overpriced outlier. So maybe $500 tops? That's 'about' the same as a console and should be most lucrative for taking money from the early adopters.

    That said, there's the whole supporting the devs aspect that cannot be overlooked. Devs are on board PSVR because they expect there to be a decently sized market to buy their software. Charging too much limits this market and will piss devs off no end, seeing a sudden plummet of interest. Kinda like if Sony provided devs with devkits and after a year+ work, they announce the new console will launch at $800 and suddenly devs are faced with a prospect of a market an order of magnitude smaller than anticipated.
     
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  4. goonergaz

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    saw on GAF that this has been listed on 3 EU sites at 450 to 550 euros - way too much, hopefully just a placeholder
     
  5. DieH@rd

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    Most likely random placeholders.
     
  6. goonergaz

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    I didn't see this anywhere...shamelessly stollen from GAF user Dodecagon (ouch at the hololens BoM);

    Goldman Sachs Global Investment Research recently put out a pretty lengthy profile in VR and AR... Anyway, they have an estimate for the BoM Costs for each HMD

    Oculus : $500
    Vive : $400
    PSVR : $350

    I'm not willing to share the pdf or any more excerpts.

    Facebook Oculus Rift: This HMD is reported to be designed to adapt to Windows 10 PCs. We assume it will leverage the CPU of the host PC for primary processing. However, it is reported that Oculus Rift will have a built-in processor to compute head- tracking and positioning tracking. What’s special about Oculus Rift is its “Constellation Positioning Tracker”, which consists of at least 40 IR LEDs on the HMD and a standalone camera station. The mechanism of this tracking system is that the LEDs emit infrared intermittently and the camera station, which sits in a corner of the room, can sense detailed changes of IR light from the HMD. As the LEDs face different directions, not only can the user’s position in a room be measured but also the user’s orientation

    HTC Vive: This is a discrete HMD co-developed by HTC (2498.TW) and Valve. Similar to Oculus Rift, HTC Vive is reported to target PC users as well. As it mainly targets gamers, it adopts slightly superior displays to Oculus Rift. However, we do not assume HTC Vive to have a built-in chip and SSD storage as it has a different position tracking system from Oculus Rift, which lowers its BoM cost a bit. We also assume that HTC Vive’s lenses system is slightly cheaper than Oculus Rift as it might not adopt adjustable dial design. The “Lighthouse” tracking system, developed by Valve, has an opposite mechanism to the Constellation Tracking System. While the Constellation system emits light from the HMD to a standalone camera, the Lighthouse emits light from two standalone base stations to a number of light sensors on the HMD

    Sony PlayStation VR: Unlike Oculus Rift and HTC Vive, PlayStation VR’s host system will be a PlayStation 4 game console. PlayStation VR’s positioning tracker technology is based on a PS (PlayStation) camera and LED lights on the HMD. To improve the quality of input signal, Sony will separate the digital signal processing units into a PU (processor unit) box, which can fine tune the digital signal from the game console and send to the HMD and a TV. We assume PlayStation VR to have the lowest BoM cost among the three discrete HMD models. The main gap comes from the fact that it does not have an independent sophisticated positioning tracking system as it is likely to leverage a PS camera to do the job. Similarly, being bundled with PS4, PlayStation VR does not have to come with its own processing units, storage, battery and controllers. These together drive the cost down.

    BoM Costs: Oculus has said that it is selling Rift at its BoM cost and we expect Sony and HTC to follow suit. That said, we believe the BoM for all three of these offerings can decrease as the products gain scale. We estimate an average HMD discrete BoM of $350- 500, with Oculus at $500 (excluding our estimate for the cost of an Xbox controller and 2 games that come in the current package), HTC Vive at $400, and PSVR at $350.

    ASPs: As we expect vendors to sell discrete HMDs at no gross profit to drive product adoption, we assume ASPs in line with our BoM estimate at $350-500 which excludes accessories and games that come in the retail package.​
    Hololens : $1500
    Microsoft HoloLens: The 3 major components in a HoloLens are processors, displays (micro projection systems) and cameras. First, Microsoft is reported to have adopted Intel’s most powerful CPU, Atom Cherry Trail, which has a 2.7GHz clock rate and supports wireless charging. GPUs and HPUs substantially increase the total cost mainly because the chips are so unique that Microsoft is unlikely to gain economies of scale in the short run. Second, for displays, Microsoft uses two HD micro projectors (one for each side of the glass) to keep the lenses transparent. Google adopted liquid crystal on silicon (LCoS) display modules for Google Glass and Microsoft is reportedly using LCoS for HoloLens as well. Finally, HoloLens has at least 7 cameras to track the motion of the user and make sense of the surrounding environment.
    BoM Costs: An integrated HMD typically has superior specs to consumer PCs or smart devices, which significantly increases the cost. For example, Microsoft’s yet to-be-released HoloLens would adopt three processing units, which together cost approximately $375 in our estimates. All-in, we estimate a BoM of $1,500.
    ASPs: Taking HoloLens as a benchmark, we estimate integrated AR HMD models launched in 2016 would be priced at around $1,500.​
     
  7. orangpelupa

    orangpelupa Elite Bug Hunter
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    @goonergaz wait.. GoldmanSachs got million dollars by making a report with that kind of quality?
     
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  8. MrFox

    MrFox Deludedly Fantastic
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    The Goldman Sachs report doesn't seem to understand enough about the technology involved.
     
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  9. goonergaz

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    sorry if I added noise :(
     
  10. ToTTenTranz

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    Dafuq did I just read?
     
  11. MrFox

    MrFox Deludedly Fantastic
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    No it's great you posted it! I'm just super critical.
     
  12. orangpelupa

    orangpelupa Elite Bug Hunter
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    Their technology details is very wrong. Maybe because they don't understand tech at all.

    But their BOM for cardboard is 20 dollars. What the heck... They are in finance, and they can't even make the BOM right.

    And I guess finance people will still believe Goldman's report to be correct and use it as guidance... And keeps subscribing for millions of dollars.

    Back to PSVR,
    Amazon UK have special page for virtual reality and they out psvr above oculus. They also copied texts from psvr press release to describe the product. On the other hand, vive os left blank lol
     
  13. zed

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    I assume portable architecture, I have no idea though if Atom Cherry Trail is Intels best discrete portable CPU?,
    it cant be correct anyways as everyone knows Oculus costs $600 to make. :yes:
     
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  14. DieH@rd

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    :-/
    Both playstation news threads are closed? Where can I report now about corporate restructuring of PlayStation?
     
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  15. ToTTenTranz

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    Even if the "mobile" word is missing from the sentence, Skylake in its Core M variation is almost just as portable as Cherry Trail.
    This looks like an abstract to a lengthier report. I'd like to see what's in it, at least for the lulz.
     
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  16. holsty101

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    "Start a new thread" was the message iirc?

    BTW I'm not a fan of having to read 3 separate thread for sales data either...
     
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  17. MrFox

    MrFox Deludedly Fantastic
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    http://www.roadtovr.com/valve-shows-off-miniscule-lighthouse-sensors/
    More details on the Vive's extremely precise tracking system. Each tiny sensor seems to have it's own port, I guess maybe a few op amps for high gain, and comparator, and AGC, something like that? There are a LOT of sensors but the miniaturization is really impressive. This should be the most expensive tracking system, but the whole package could be okay since the lenses aren't made with super-crazy-shit(tm) technology. OTOH Oculus is using low cost infrared leds that only need to be powered (no critical timing signal) so the only cost there is the assembly (but crazy expensive lenses).

    Morpheus tracking should remain the lowest cost by using only a few visible power leds, and the simplest assembly of the bunch. Lenses still unknown. Reports puts their quality somewhere between Vive and Oculus... which doesn't help figuring out their cost or tech. All we can tell from the pictures is that it's not coarse fresnel, and it's probably not fine fresnel.
     
    #2577 MrFox, Jan 27, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2016
  18. Arwin

    Arwin Now Officially a Top 10 Poster
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    Can sony create the lenses themselves? Because that might help keep the cost low.
     
  19. London-boy

    London-boy Shifty's daddy
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    I think they already do for their camera lenses. They should be pretty covered.
     
  20. DSoup

    DSoup meh
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    I don't know about now but Sony used to manufacture Zeiss lenses under licence. I can't recall any announcement about them relinquishing this production capability so it's likely still in house and what they are using for some of their own products.
     
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