Sony VR Headset/Project Morpheus/PlayStation VR

[tongue_of_colicab]

Lol people getting their hopes up because of something pachter said. The fact that he thinks there isn't much in the box (no only screens, optics, a bunch of sensors enough the Breakout box with a fan.. ) kinda says enough. It might be priced like that, but not because of his reasons.

 

[goonergaz]

I do agree (about Patcher) but Sony had already said it would be priced like a console didn't they?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

They said, IIRC, priced like a 'new platform'. 3D0 was a new platform that released at $700, or over $1100 in modern monies...

 

[orangpelupa]

I do agree (about Patcher) but Sony had already said it would be priced like a console didn't they?

I keep wondering this. If they priced psvr higher than ps4.

Doesn't it will looks weird for the wide public? Or makes some confusion?

It's an accessory that priced higher than the main product.

Or its simply because I really wants psvr to be lower priced than ps4 haha

 

[MrFox]

They precised later that "pricing as a new console" meant they wouldn't profit from the hardware, prefering a price as low as possible to drive adoption. The statement wasn't about absolute price point.

In the last two years all competitors improved their parts, and I wouldn't be surprised the initial target price went up for everybody, but not equally. Sony must have raised it recently with the big boost to the external processor, most everything else is minor tweaks from the prototype they have shown almost 2 years ago. The move from custom lcd to custom oled is an important one, but the resolution, single panel configuration, rgb pixel structure, optics, tracking, headset design and fitting seem to be either the same or tweaked without affecting the cost.

Whatever their internal target was for price, they are in a better position to reach it than oculus (it looks like it went from 350 to 600 overnight but from the explanations it happened between DK2 and CB1, a complete redesign with expensive parts).

 

[Shifty Geezer]

The original design IIRC was for an external processor doing true tweening. Then it sounded like the motion interpolation was being simplified and moved to the GPU. Now we have an external processor doing who knows what! But I'm thinking the cost is on par for Sony's original target, and they toyed with reducing it.

 

[DieH@rd]

I don't think much has changed. GPU always worked on interpolation, processing box always worked on image morphing for social screen, and recently Sony added ability of PU to handle 3D audio processing.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

Hardware dedicated to binaural audio processing is already in the APU. Motion interpolation could be done through an external box and if done through software (gpgpu or otherwise) it's bound to spend necessary resources.

 

[orangpelupa]

Or sony added dumb virtual theater mode? Thus they buffed the box size to allow prolonged high clock use for better virtual theater?

So psvr works for any hdmi device, not just ps4.

 

[Davros]

Hardware dedicated to binaural audio processing is already in the APU.

Woah, are you saying the ps4 can do real time binaural encoding ? this is a world first as far as I know

 

[Deleted member 13524]

Woah, are you saying the ps4 can do real time binaural encoding ? this is a world first as far as I know

It's been known for a while. Sony went on record to state the console's DSPs are based on TrueAudio:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7513/ps4-spec-update-audio-dsp-is-based-on-amds-trueaudio

Funny thing is I repeated this fact some 10 times within this thread already. Yet people insist there's an audio chip inside PSVR's external unit.

 

[DieH@rd]

Yet people insist there's an audio chip inside PSVR's external unit.

We do that because Sony devs themselves are claiming that PU got upgraded with the abbility to process 3D audio. Yes, PS4 has built in audio block from the start, but it will get additional audio processing power in PSVR hardware.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

We do that because Sony devs themselves are claiming that PU got upgraded with the abbility to process 3D audio.

I didn't know that. When/where did they state there were DSPs for positional audio in the box?

All I remember is them saying there is hardware dedicated for audio. That would be DACs and eventually some headphone opamps. The PS4 doesn't have any analog audio outputs so it's pretty obvious the external box would need that hardware.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Can you offer proof that the audio chip is capable of more than just decoding and mixing lots of samples? We all know PS4 has something 'based on TrueAudio" using Tenisillica cores, but there's nothing to suggest Sony have a full fat implementation. IIRC it was mentioned Sony talked about using compute for spatial audio.

There's a lengthy discussion on the audio capabilities here, where I said...

Dominic Mallinson mentioned TrueAudio. Anandtech said PS4 audio DSP was based on TrueAudio. AMDGaming tweeted "The audio chip on PS4 has TrueAudio technology". No-one's talked about TrueAudio on PS4 in public. The only description we've had about how PS4's audio works is mention of mixing (VGLeaks confirmed by Sony) and talk of GPGPU for audio.

We have to the best of my knowledge zero PS4 games demonstrating TrueAudio technology (spatial 3D in headphones), and a slide from Killzone showing CPU processing 160 audio voices.

We have a VR headset described as featuring HRTF 3D audio yet Sony haven't described PS4 as featuring HRTF.

Does the evidence really weigh in that PS4 has exactly the same audio chip as AMD's TrueAudio GPUs? Or that it just uses the same decompress and mixing engine of TrueAudio but not the DSP side?

...and I've heard nothing since then to change my opinion. There's to my mind zero evidence of spatial audio processing hardware in PS4.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

Perhaps we have zero knowledge of games using TrueAudio because zero knowledge is what is usually disclosed about audio technologies being used in games, save for a general sticker saying Fmod, Wwise, OpenAL or Dolby.

Looking at the chronology of events, I think TrueAudio was developed by AMD also by the request of Sony for the PS4 somewhere in 2011/2012. AMD noticed it wouldn't make a big difference in power and die-area to implement it PC GPUs, plus there was (and still is) a chance for the proliferation of ports from PS4 titles using that tech, so they included it on Bonaire and later GPUs.

Killzone is a launch title. It was probably done on Dev Kits that were PCs using 1st-gen GCN graphics cards, so no TrueAudio hardware was available at the time. I guess it doesn't use more than 2 or 3GB of VRAM either because it was also developed during a time where the density of GDDR5 chips available at launch was uncertain.

You say there's zero evidence of spatial audio processing hardware in the PS4, yet @Ryan Smith 's article strongly implies otherwise.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Sony said, "based on TrueAudio" as TrueAudio was announced in the PC space from what I remember, leading everyone to assume it was a full TrueAudio solution. However, that theory doesn't tie with any of the other infomation to hand, not least the very thorough VGLeaks description. The only pattern that matches all the info without needing leaps of faith is that the audio decode and mix block is based on 'TrueAudio' in some fashion. To believe PS4 has a DSP capable of HRTF mixing without any games currently using it is requiring a leap of faith.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

Why would HRTF have been mentioned in games so far when they're all built to play with TV speakers or a home theater setup in mind?
For the PS4, the PSVR games will be the first ones with headphones first in mind.

Regardless, what kind of technology are Sony's own headsets using? "Virtual 7.1 Surround" doesn't sound like a simple downmix. HRTF in games has been around for almost 2 decades. Aureal's HRTF has been opensourced through OpenAL for almost 10 years.
Why assume it's not being widely used?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

1) Sony could provide 3D audio in headphones. 2) You can do virtual 3D processing for stereo speakers. 3) Why haven't Sony mentioned the DSP and 3D audio processing as a feature when they've described everything else about the console?

Why assume it's not being widely used?

Because no-one's talking about it! If PS4 has amazing 3D spatial audio in headphones, why isn't any user remarking as much? Why is Sony selling a 7.1 virtual headset when if the hardware exists in PS4, any pairs of stereo headphonescould provide the same 7.1 downmix?

 

[Davros]

Totentanz,
TruAudio isnt Binaural your getting you technologies mixed up.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

1) Sony could provide 3D audio in headphones.

The "3D Audio" isn't in the headphones or their dongle. You can connect the dongle to a PC, Mac or even Android and it's just a pretty plain USB stereo device.

Why haven't Sony mentioned the DSP and 3D audio processing as a feature when they've described everything else about the console? Because no-one's talking about it!

Because no one cares about audio, at the moment. Marketing is very expensive and Sony only directs their marketing towards stuff that people care about, like pretty graphics, online achievements and social stuff.
As long as almost everyone with a PS4 only uses the speakers from their LCD TVs, Sony won't bother mentioning it.

VR may change all that, though.

If PS4 has amazing 3D spatial audio in headphones, why isn't any user remarking as much?

Because binaural audio using HRTF (or BRTF) wasn't amazing in 2013 and it isn't amazing in 2016. It might become with VR though.

Why is Sony selling a 7.1 virtual headset when if the hardware exists in PS4, any pairs of stereo headphones could provide the same 7.1 downmix?

Sony makes money with Playstation-branded peripherals. This headset is no different.

Totentanz,
TruAudio isnt Binaural

Excuse me?