Sony: Press Conference & Tokyo Game Show

[-tkf-]

So, I'm not getting the PS VITA TV, myself.

Shock!

99 USD (if/when it comes to the US, it's currently a Japan only product) + XX USD for a controller + XX USD for a memory card in order to play PS VITA games on TV? And it can't even play PS VITA's Uncharted?

That's already pretty much the cost of an entry level 12 GB PS3, which has more games that look better on the TV and comes with a controller.

I'm not seeing how this is compelling in any way, except for people that already own a PS3 and VITA (so you don't have to necessarily buy a controller and memory card). And even then, I question the value of it.

Regards,
SB

I hope that it comes to Europe, i would buy it at launch, even skip lunch to get it. It's a Console that only costs 99 dollars and for the 60+ million that already own a PS3 there is no need for a controller..

And best of all, i got a healthy collection of PS+ games i can "cash in on" and play the games on my TV, they just need to release the netflix app in the rest of the world. And lets add YT, HBO, BBC etc..

A streaming device that plays AAA games, it's pretty amazing.. i am surprised that Sony could come up with something so brilliant and effective, imho this is a big thing.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

First of all, Many titles in reality do not need touchscreen.

Actually, this is what I find the most strange.
I've been playing quite a few titles in my Vita (last 6 months worth of Plus + LBP + MGS2 HD) and almost all of them have a touchscreen gimmick somewhere that cannot be replicated through buttons. I think Motorstorm RC may be the only one without it.
Even the MGS2 remake must use the touchscreen to select items and weapon.


So either the Vita TV will bring some kind of touchscreen-to-button remapping for some (most?) existing games or the amount of Vita games that can be played in the Vita TV will be really low.

 

[temesgen]

Perhaps I've missed it, but why not make the PS4 into a form of general (not just backups) network storage to the other limited-capacity PS devices?
It'd be a small value-added synergy for owning the PS4 and its little friends.
Sadly, if it weren't for the portability aspect, it would be a better deal on a money per GB basis to buy PS4s if you chew through enough storage.

WRT HD access I was wondering why both devices didn't opt to run 2 drives in parallel to increase the transfer rate of data. Use one for the OS and cache and the other for actual game data.

 

[temesgen]

Actually, this is what I find the most strange.
I've been playing quite a few titles in my Vita (last 6 months worth of Plus + LBP + MGS2 HD) and almost all of them have a touchscreen gimmick somewhere that cannot be replicated through buttons. I think Motorstorm RC may be the only one without it.
Even the MGS2 remake must use the touchscreen to select items and weapon.


So either the Vita TV will bring some kind of touchscreen-to-button remapping for some (most?) existing games or the amount of Vita games that can be played in the Vita TV will be really low.

I think the DS4 with the touch control could make up the gap for most games on Vita. Tearaway is one game that might be more difficult to pull off but I am kinda struggling to think of other examples that would truly be hard to replicate. OTOH I don't think DS4 has a gyroscope so there are a few titles where that mechanic would not be able to be replicated unless you were using PS Eye along with a DS4 and even then the latency and precision would likely not satisfy. The lack of a camera would be a concern as well for a few titles.

 

[Arwin]

I think what will happen is that most touch stuff will get a button alternative. I think that makes sense anyway. Some games will be lost in translation though, and that's probably why we won't see all Vita games coming to the platform.

Still, this is an interesting first step that could lead to integration of the chipset into TVs, phones, etc., creating a walled garden type affair that *might* work. We'll see.

 

[Strange]

Dragon's Crown may provide a good example. Although you surely can just touch and go, pressing L can still bring up the cursor and allow you to poke around the background. Just make the actions "doable" by buttons but "better" by touchscreen. Of course there will still be certain stuff that is very hard to map, but I wouldn't be too worried about it.

 

[tuna]

You can always patch the games. If they sell a couple of million VitaTVs that becomes profitable.

 

[Rurouni]

OTOH I don't think DS4 has a gyroscope

DS4 has gyro. DS3 also has it (either gyro and/or accelerometer). But the one in DS4 is better (higher frequency/more resolution and probably much lower lag than DS3).

 

[patsu]

Actually, this is what I find the most strange.
I've been playing quite a few titles in my Vita (last 6 months worth of Plus + LBP + MGS2 HD) and almost all of them have a touchscreen gimmick somewhere that cannot be replicated through buttons. I think Motorstorm RC may be the only one without it.
Even the MGS2 remake must use the touchscreen to select items and weapon.


So either the Vita TV will bring some kind of touchscreen-to-button remapping for some (most?) existing games or the amount of Vita games that can be played in the Vita TV will be really low.

The Vita version of Plants vs Zombies is touchscreen friendly. I have never used the dual stick input for that game. Don't even know if they work there.

If not, the dev will have to patch the game with the PS3/DS3 input scheme.

It seems that they are using PS3's large user base to make devs port their games for pure dual sticks input. Then downgrade it and add optional touch input for Vita.

Games like CandyCrush should work much better with touch input though. Will have to see how existing core gamers react to it with the low $99 price point. May be people will try to hack it to play emulated games. XD

 

[patsu]

Ok, here's another way to look at it.

VTV was introduced one day before Apple's event. They are anticipating a controller launch for AppleTV. It would mean that game developers will create dual stick games for iOS. These games will likely have optional touchscreen input too to address the iOS mobile market.

Sony simply want a competing $99 platform to get the same games. It's like Move vs Wii where the former is tuned for core gamers.

Maybe both ATV and VTV will have second display input for pure touchscreen games ?

 

[DieH@rd]

I'm sure that game compatibility will rise significantly when DS4 comes out, and 1st party Sony games will most surely be adapted more [camera sunlight section in Golden Abyss, etc].

What I fear is that VitaTV wont come out in the west until summer or next hollday season. A ton of people want to buy it right now, Sony would be foolish to wait too long.

 

[patsu]

If they take this step, it may also imply that Sony may be willing to upgrade the Vita processors over time. Say... A Vita tablet may sport a more powerful CPU and GPU.

 

[Gradthrawn]

A Vita tablet may sport a more powerful CPU and GPU.

I've been pondering what a Liverpool based line of mobile devices would look like (tablets, phones, handhelds). Make use of some the rejected APUs that had too many bad CUs and Jag cores, or CUs and cores that couldn't clock high enough (so bad by PS4 standards, but working, lower power and lower heat). Or perhaps that's irrelevant since the APU is inside of a SoC (and not manufactured separately). With the SoC containing too many other power hungry devices that aren't useful for mobile. Random half-thoughts, not fleshed out, ignore me.

 

[patsu]

They don't seem to have any success with third party PS Certified h/w. So having their own (unified) h/w platform for assorted devices would be another approach.

 

[3dilettante]

I've been pondering what a Liverpool based line of mobile devices would look like (tablets, phones, handhelds). Make use of some the rejected APUs that had too many bad CUs and Jag cores, or CUs and cores that couldn't clock high enough (so bad by PS4 standards, but working, lower power and lower heat). Or perhaps that's irrelevant since the APU is inside of a SoC (and not manufactured separately). With the SoC containing too many other power hungry devices that aren't useful for mobile. Random half-thoughts, not fleshed out, ignore me.

Just because the bad don't pass functionality verifcation, it doesn't mean they don't draw power as well as their functioning brethren. The granularity of the power gating doesn't cover gating things down to the Vita's operating point. It would probably compromise performance and yields signifcantly at the upper range, hence things like Sony's secondary processor to cover the lowest power mode.

The APU is a lot of silicon, and going by numbers like those for the Xbox One APU (a possibly lower-power chip than Orbis) the big chips at fully gated idle draw power close to what the Vita's chip does under load.

 

[Gradthrawn]

Just because the bad don't pass functionality verifcation, it doesn't mean they don't draw power as well as their functioning brethren. The granularity of the power gating doesn't cover gating things down to the Vita's operating point. It would probably compromise performance and yields signifcantly at the upper range, hence things like Sony's secondary processor to cover the lowest power mode.

The APU is a lot of silicon, and going by numbers like those for the Xbox One APU (a possibly lower-power chip than Orbis) the big chips at fully gated idle draw power close to what the Vita's chip does under load.

Interesting. Thanks.

Although, IIRC, a fully gated One APU is about 2.25 W. That's assuming 150W gated to 1.5% of its power draw. Granted I'm basing that off of fuzzy memory of the Hot Chips slides. What's the Vita's chip at load?

 

[3dilettante]

Microsoft gave a 2.5% of full power for Durango's gated idle, which for a ~100W chip is 2.5W.

The PS Vita TV was described as having a max power of ~2.8W.

 

[babybumb]

Not when it's limited to 720p and stereo sound, IMO.

First of all Gaikai streams wont be more than 720p anyway. No reason why games should be stereo.. dolby digital can be bitstreamed through HDMI

 

[Deleted member 13524]

dolby digital can be bitstreamed through HDMI

Why is it not listed in the Vita TV's specs, then?
It doesn't seem like Sony paid the necessary royalties for dolby digital streaming through HDMI.

 

[Gradthrawn]

Microsoft gave a 2.5% of full power for Durango's gated idle, which for a ~100W chip is 2.5W.

The PS Vita TV was described as having a max power of ~2.8W.

Very interesting, thanks again. Didn't realize the power draw difference was that vast.

That said, a Surface Pro like PC replacement "tablet" could be a consideration for a scaled Liverpool APU I think. Although I'm not sure how challenging it would be to hit the same TDP of the Surface's i5 or if it would even be worth the engineering effort vs a clean start. Not to mention that since battery life is already one of the Pro's biggest trade offs, it may not be the best benchmark for power draw to use in this case.