Sony Posts its numbers

[NathansFortune]

I thought big retailers have buy back options to reduce their risk which guarantees they will have enough stock on hand to meet variable demand. Once you get large enough as a retailer your value increases and you can demand and get concessions.

It depends largely on the product. If the manufacturer has enough confidence in the product they will offer it without any buyback agreements. I don't think any of the 3 consoles would be offered with buyback agreements unless there is a redesign coming in and the older version will be devalued as a result. For example the PS3 phat was sold at the normal rate to retailers, but depending on how many they had left when the slim was introduced Sony offered a discount on the first order of slims. Even then there no buyback was agreed, just a discounted rate to keep retailers lumbered with phats sweet.

 

[jeff_rigby]

This is all an elaborate hoax, isn't it jeff_rigby?

No, and your reason for believing my statement; "Clearly a PS3 with a Chrome 7 browser would be a phenomenal value and should generate larger sales. A reduction in 3-D TV prices should have an impact on PS3 sales and Move should also generate sales. Might all these explain the Sony #s rather than assuming that Sony is fudging the numbers.", would be a hoax?

I gave three possible reasons for increased sales.... What was so out of line that you might believe my statement unreasonable.

Xbox now has HTML5 support for applications, EA released a WEBKIT for the PS3 and Google would want a Chrome web browser ported to the PS3. I would think that anyone claiming that a new webkit browser is not coming to the PS3 would be accused of a Hoax. The Wii has an Opera browser that was upgraded allowing some of the webkit features in that you can have javascript applications outside the browser.

 

[NathansFortune]

they would need to sell better than 2:1 over microsoft though. Remember MS is still selling in those countrys too.

Personaly I think we are going to see some tall tales from all 3 companys. I just find sony's suspect right now because from the numbers we get they don't make sense

Really? I don't think MS have ventured into those markets in an official sense due to the piracy rates. I the 360S is unhackable (and it might be) then they will enter them, but most of those countries are serviced by the grey market or imports.

The other point that has been discounted is that Sony have an absolutely huge distribution network around the world, I think the only company that can compete is Samsung. Not even Apple sell as many products in as many countries. Sony is a household name in more countries than you could imagine, because of that they are able to sell PS3s to the middle classes in developing nations where others can't. I know in India Sony is seen as a premium brand and imported PS3s sell for a significant premium, while PS2 sells a lot via official channels, whereas Microsoft is seen as a software company which people can rip-off.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

Sony doesn't distribute Playstations in Scandinavia, even though they have their distribution channels for their other products. Instead we have an official importer between Sony and retailers = higher price. Is Sony really distributing Playstations through their own channel in other less significant countries?

 

[NavNucST3]

Nintendo:
This is the sales of home consoles in the European market. Nintendo gathered the data from independent market research companies in European countries to compile these charts and graphs.
As for Wii this year, it kept a similar sales pace as last year’s until summer, but the most recent sales are not very pleasing ones. Xbox 360 has increased its sales after the model change, particularly in the U.K. So far in 2010, PS3 has outperformed its 2009 sales and, quite recently, it has been leading the European market.

********

SONY Regarding TVs and 3D:

I have a couple of questions on game and a couple of questions from the TV side. First on the game profitability, what is [happening] with contribution from reversal of prior period inventory charges? Secondly, can you comment on the sales of the new Move motion controller?

On the TV side given the deterioration in sales here in North America, what gives you the confidence to maintain the overall forecast for 25 million units globally? Can you comment on the reception or proportionate sales coming from 3D televisions? ...

Answer:
Masaru Kato

I will start with the gaming PS3. There are no inventory charges affecting the profitability of PS3 in the second quarter. Cost have come down, again the negative margins on the hardware have been eliminated since last April so, we are in the mode of making money on each unit we sell at the moment. So, the profitability with a combination of reduced costs in the PS3, quite impressive sales on the software of PS3 and reduction in SG&A.

On the TV side, 25 million, a lot depends on how we do in the third quarter which includes the holiday season. If you look at the business on the global basis, it’s a different picture region by region. If you take the emerging markets Brazil, Russia, India, China they are all doing double digit growth in the TV area at least for our business okay. If you look at Japan our sales is booming in TV because we have this government subsidy in place and you get a refund for certain categories of TV that you buy.

Excluding those areas if you look at North America is a little bit troublesome in that sell through for the past several months have been below last year’s level, and we see some slight develop in inventory. That’s one soft spot we have. All in all, we are still aiming to do 25 million but a lot depends on third quarter.

...

On 3D our expectations at the beginning of the year was to do about 10% of our sales. It’s quite early days but so far our forecast seems to be a little bit high in that it’s a little bit below expectations, but think we have to wait for good software (inaudible) to be available for the consumers to really measure what 3D can do for us.

 

[dobwal]

This is irrelevant because the entire basis of the "argument" that Sony is fudging its numbers relies on the belief that Microsoft isn't fudging their numbers. If one company is doing it the other would be too.

If Microsoft is lying about their numbers it would be more than feasible to say that Sony's numbers are 100% accurate. I think we should turn this discussion around.

Sony's numbers are obviously 100% accurate so Microsoft must be lying about how many consoles they've sold. They're a filthy, lying corporation that must be stopped. We should all burn our Xboxes and Zunes and give praise to PaRappa the Rappa.

Wouldn't MS fudging numbers make Sony's number less suspicious or is MS fudging their numbers downward at their own detriment to make Sony's numbers look less than truthful?

How do you surmise that if Sony is fudging their number then MS must be fudging thier numbers and then turning around and say if MS is fudging their numbers then Sony's number must be right?

Either my sarcasm meter is off or logic was thrown out the window when this argument was rationalized.

 

[corduroygt]

Even the PS2 shipped numbers exceeded the 360 in the January-June period, and PS2 is outsold by the 360 even in Japan, so it's obvious that Sony is shipping a lot of consoles to non US,EU,JP countries.

 

[patsu]

BTW, here's another thought. What if they're betting on some overflow holiday sales when Microsoft won't be able to meet demand after they sell all of their forecasted 3 million Kinect sensors?

Based on Sony's own admission, they hope to capture some Wii upgraders with Move. Kinect may stock out and benefit Sony somewhat but since the latter didn't go "We got controller-free gaming too !", I doubt that's their intention -- although I personally would have gone for it since gamers will want both controller and controller-free experiences moving forward.

According to original plans, Sony should also have GT5 to sell starting this week.

Then again, MS has much much bigger marketing budget this fall, so they will try to stock up the channel with Xboxes also. If not, may be MS undershipped for whatever reason.

 

[Toaddio]

Either my sarcasm meter is off....

Yes. The entire discussion is taking one number at face value to make another looks suspicious. It's entirely disingenuous.

 

[obonicus]

On the subject of channel stuffing, wouldn't we have heard something from the retail peanut gallery?

Edit: That's just how you work. Not here so much, but on neogaf a few people are (supposedly) store managers in larger retailers, and generally have been able to call out something being overstocked far before it became common knowledge/console war ammo.

 

[patsu]

If they stuff channel illegally, it would be with friendly distributors and resellers. No one would talk. I doubt Sony is doing that since the CEO and CFO will be held responsible.

 

[corduroygt]

If they stuff channel illegally, it would be with friendly distributors and resellers. No one would talk. I doubt Sony is doing that since the CEO and CFO will be held responsible.

How do you stuff a channel illegally? Do you open up the PS3's and fill them up with cocaine ? Shipping lots of product so it's not sold out during the crucial shopping season isn't shady, it's good business and supply chain management.

 

[obonicus]

If they stuff channel illegally, it would be with friendly distributors and resellers. No one would talk. I doubt Sony is doing that since the CEO and CFO will be held responsible.

No one's suggesting they're doing anything actually illegal, right? Seems like awfully high risk for rather low stakes.

 

[patsu]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Channel_stuffing

 

[BoardBonobo]

Looking at the Nintendo report, they seem to be implying that the PS3 is finally capturing the PS2 fence sitters in the EU and they are moving up the ladder. I would think the state of the Japanese market would also be a reflection of the other eastern markets that both Sony and Nintendo have deep roots in.

 

[obonicus]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Channel_stuffing

Well, thank you. I meant, we're not at the point where we're actually accusing these corporations of malfeasance, right?

 

[patsu]

It's a grey area. People use the term loosely here. In any case, it's unclear whether Sony overships or MS underships. I don't think we know enough to say either way.

 

[NathansFortune]

No one's suggesting they're doing anything actually illegal, right? Seems like awfully high risk for rather low stakes.

I don't think many actually think there is anything dodgy going on. Just a few people seem to think that winning fanboy wars is more important for multinationals than, you know, keep the regulators and legal guys on side.

I honestly think it is best that everyone take the figures for what they are until lawsuits are brought by regulators for mis-reporting or some other dubious activity.

If Sony were selling less than expected they would lower the fiscal guidance, not cook the books. They have lowered expectations in the past.

 

[obonicus]

I don't think many actually think there is anything dodgy going on. Just a few people seem to think that winning fanboy wars is more important for multinationals than, you know, keep the regulators and legal guys on side.

I honestly think it is best that everyone take the figures for what they are until lawsuits are brought by regulators for mis-reporting or some other dubious activity.

Yes, precisely.

 

[-tkf-]

Did anyone consider a price drop up to the important season?