Not only that, but Dreamcast was backed by a company that was practically broke.. (and had an amazing budget of 50 million in advertising (ps2 had 10 times that))
Xbox 360 is backed by... well MSFT
Xbox 360 is backed by... well MSFT
Sony: 2M PS3s shipped
- Thread starter Hale
- Start date
And most big Eastern publishing companies do....However, Eastern publisher approach is different than the Western publishers. Whether a console sells lots of titles is one factor but it does'nt dictate where Eastern publishers will put their empasizes in releasing titles..I.E..Look at how Tecmo supported the Xbox more than PS2.
In addition, that is why X360 is still in the Japanese market to get Eastern publisher to support the Brand not only domestically but the Western market as well.
And I would'nt expect it to be the same...the dreamcast is more of a archetype and though the X360 would not go out of business completely. The scenerio is that they can be forced into a small niche segment of the market. While the Wii and PS3 divide the mass market up!
It could. Sony could also slash the price of the PS3 to that of the PS2 and make more sales, but go broke, and bomb out of the market completely. Then Nintendo will pick up the shambles left for cheap and make a game where Mario is the driver model for GT5.
But then, neither your scenario, nor mine, are at all realistic, are they?
I have a very difficult time taking anyone seriously who throws around "Dreamcast! Dreamcast I tell you!" without doing significant legwork to show that the parallel even remotely applies. It is about as good as saying...
Sony meet Nintendo. (i.e. the former market leader who got arrogent and foolhearted in regards to controlling developers/publishers through many methods, including media formats and architecture)
Of course such statements fly in the face of looking at the big picture and is unfairly picking and choosing points of contact.
How about some points of disconnect?
- MS has full/broad Publisher support. EA, in the corner, please say hello.
- MS's Xbox 360 has shown amazing customer support. Publishers who bet the 360 early are happy they did. Say hello Capcom, Bethesda, Ubisoft, and Epic. You can bet your bottom dollar they won't drop support anytime soon.
- MS has sold as many Xbox 360's in 12 months as the Dreamcast did... ever.
- MS was able to create a machine with the same physical memory footprint as the PS3 and bring to market a competitive graphics solution for the immediate and longterm. DC definately came up short on memory.
- MS has created a slow ebb toward (slowly) equalizing the exclusive market with key gains like GTAIV, VF5, AC, etc. How many PS2 exclusives hopped ship to be multiplatform on the DC?
And there are a ton more points of disconnect (MS is much richer; MS doesn't have a trackrecord of leaving pubs high and dry on platforms like 32X, Sega CD, SS, etc; MS has the three biggest IPs in NA on board in Madden/Halo/GTA; and so forth).
Using the Dreamcast as a 360 archetype is about as logical as using the N64 as the archetype to the PS3.
You know, console launched by the previous 2 gens market leader, a year late, more power, proprietary format, betting people will buy their platform the exclusives and so forth.
Of course that parallel is fraught with holes, so no one even bothers bringing it up.
Which makes me scratch my head why some of you cannot apply the same logic and see that the Dreamcast parallel just doesn't fit. It is a lazy way to avoid more involving points of discussion and treating each platform as unique. We of course should consider the impact and results of past decisions and consoles, but looking at them as absolutes on limited data (like 1 year head start!
) as some indication of the way the market "could" go, without seriously examining ALL the points of contact and disconnect and playing them out in the modern market, well, doesn't solve much.It could. Sony could also slash the price of the PS3 to that of the PS2 and make more sales, but go broke, and bomb out of the market completely. Then Nintendo will pick up the shambles left for cheap and make a game where Mario is the driver model for GT5.
But then, neither your scenario, nor mine, are at all realistic, are they?
Like your making some point...dude,if you follow then my point is exactly! Its too early to be making predictions...
I have a very difficult time taking anyone seriously who throws around "Dreamcast! Dreamcast I tell you!" without doing significant legwork to show that the parallel even remotely applies. It is about as good as saying...
Sony meet Nintendo. (i.e. the former market leader who got arrogent and foolhearted in regards to controlling developers/publishers through many methods, including media formats and architecture)
Of course such statements fly in the face of looking at the big picture and is unfairly picking and choosing points of contact.
How about some points of disconnect?
- MS has full/broad Publisher support. EA, in the corner, please say hello.
- MS's Xbox 360 has shown amazing customer support. Publishers who bet the 360 early are happy they did. Say hello Capcom, Bethesda, Ubisoft, and Epic. You can bet your bottom dollar they won't drop support anytime soon.
- MS has sold as many Xbox 360's in 12 months as the Dreamcast did... ever.
- MS was able to create a machine with the same physical memory footprint as the PS3 and bring to market a competitive graphics solution for the immediate and longterm. DC definately came up short on memory.
- MS has created a slow ebb toward (slowly) equalizing the exclusive market with key gains like GTAIV, VF5, AC, etc. How many PS2 exclusives hopped ship to be multiplatform on the DC?
And there are a ton more points of disconnect (MS is much richer; MS doesn't have a trackrecord of leaving pubs high and dry on platforms like 32X, Sega CD, SS, etc; MS has the three biggest IPs in NA on board in Madden/Halo/GTA; and so forth).
Using the Dreamcast as a 360 archetype is about as logical as using the N64 as the archetype to the PS3.
You know, console launched by the previous 2 gens market leader, a year late, more power, proprietary format, betting people will buy their platform the exclusives and so forth.
Of course that parallel is fraught with holes, so no one even bothers bringing it up.
Which makes me scratch my head why some of you cannot apply the same logic and see that the Dreamcast parallel just doesn't fit. It is a lazy way to avoid more involving points of discussion and treating each platform as unique. We of course should consider the impact and results of past decisions and consoles, but looking at them as absolutes on limited data (like 1 year head start!
Its simple...its what happened to the original xbox and looking at what games are coming out with the noise.. itz market limmited. X360 full circle back into the Xbox.
Uh.... don't those two quotes, one right after the other, completely contradict each other?
MS recently issued a statement that 50% of the current owner of the 360 didn't own the original XBox, so it seems they managed to expand their demographic quite a bit. Every console is market limited, BTW. Right now, the PS3 is market-limited to the market segment of customers willing to shell $500+ for a game console.
Really....and looking at the post reply above you've bought some kinda of revelatory discussion. If you're gonna bring no points...tired....
Comparing the XBOX360 to the original XBOX is just as flawed as comparing it to the Dreamcast. The 360 is clearly and obviously in a much better position now than either of the others was ever able to achieve.
Is it too early to say who (if any) of the competitors is going to "win" this generation? Yes, I would agree with that.
Is it too early to say, though, that Sony is unlikely to dominate this generation as the have the last 2? No. At this point they have an uphill climb, and the slower they make that ascent the steeper the hill gets.
quite a few errors.
DC was at 8/9M worldwide when the ps2 launched in the US and died around 11M. They sold 2M alone in Japan, something MS will probably never do.
In Fall 2000, Sony was 6 months after its Japanese launch and had ironed all its manufacturing problems, then was not supply limited.
You are right that the Dc died over night unlike the X360
thatdude90210
Regular
You really can't compare these launches. According to VGcharts, DC had about 1.8 million in Japan & 2.6 million in the US by the US launch. But, using the US launch time is kinda like stacking the deck, because by that time the PS2 had already sold 3.2 million in Japan. Basically about a month after US launch, it had already caught up in 2 major territories combined. The PS3 isn't doing that. What's more, after a month, the opponents are stretching their leads.
Exactly how does it outnumber it?
Mintmaster
Veteran
wazoo, you're right, I mixed up numbers. (Rather badly. )
We unfortunately don't have European numbers, but if we did, PS2 likely did outsell Dreamcast worldwide every month since it's launch except September 2000, despite the PS2 being released in Japan only up to that point and being supply limited for some time after that.
Nonetheless, Dreamcast only sold 3.5M in Japan and USA before PS2 came out, and after that PS2 eclipsed it sales despite being supply limited. Add in Europe and:
- DC's pre-PS2 sales are still probably half of XB360's pre-PS3 sales
- DC had nowhere near the dev support of XB360
- PS3 has not yet started outselling the XB360, despite having more launch units than the PS2 did vs. DC
- PS3 is not really supply limited anymore, so there's no reason to suspect sales surges anytime soon
For all these reasons, Mythos' comparison of Dreamcast to XB360 is complete nonsense.
)We unfortunately don't have European numbers, but if we did, PS2 likely did outsell Dreamcast worldwide every month since it's launch except September 2000, despite the PS2 being released in Japan only up to that point and being supply limited for some time after that.
Nonetheless, Dreamcast only sold 3.5M in Japan and USA before PS2 came out, and after that PS2 eclipsed it sales despite being supply limited. Add in Europe and:
- DC's pre-PS2 sales are still probably half of XB360's pre-PS3 sales
- DC had nowhere near the dev support of XB360
- PS3 has not yet started outselling the XB360, despite having more launch units than the PS2 did vs. DC
- PS3 is not really supply limited anymore, so there's no reason to suspect sales surges anytime soon
For all these reasons, Mythos' comparison of Dreamcast to XB360 is complete nonsense.
PS3 notable exclusives for the first half of 2007:
Motorstorm, Heavenly Sword, F1, and maybe Lair
Later through the year, we may see these:
Metal Gear Solid 4, Devil May Cry 4, maybe even Final Fantasy (but I doubt this)
X360 notable exclusives:
Mass Effect, Bioshock, Lost Planet, Blue Dragon, Forza 2, Crackdown, Shadowrun
Later through the year, we may see these:
Halo 3, Too Human, Lost Odyssey, Castle Wolfenstein, Banjo-Kazooie
Third party exclusive titles are a lot more common on the Xbox, and there's a lot that I haven't mentioned, or it's only available on Xbox and PC - there's been a thread about it somewhere in the Games forum.
Edit: here.
I'm going to have to interject here on the idea of notable exclusives. For some people, there's games (due) on PS3 that others don't class as notable, but which are important strengths of the system. Eye Of Judgement is utterly unique in bringing VR into the home. Even if its not a game many forum goers are excited about, it's certainly notable. Then there's Untold Legends... No, seriously! It's nothing amazing by any stretch. However, there are people playing it who enjoy it, because they like the action RPG (or rather, DnD) games, and as one such gamer said there's nothing like that on the XB360 yet. If you like fantasy dungeon crawlers, there's nothing out nor on the radar for XB360, which is a notable exception.
If you're going to talk lists of exclusives, it should be all the exclusives rather than a personal selection from them that's utterly subjective. In my case, though PS3 has less titles than XB360, it has more that appeals to my interests, and that's what really matter with the libraries. It's not just number of games, but also what those games are. ie. 10 exclusives of all different genres is better than 30 exclusives if they're all FPSes. Sony's platform has an exclusive fantasy RPG, VR monster battler, Arial combat game, FPS, racer, download titles etc. meaning there's lots of variety being introduced through it's exclusives, and even with less titles it's a library with strength in diversity.
Elveon?
Maybe 360 won't have a VR monster battler, but I still think it will have more diversity in its exclusive titles than PS3 in 2007.
