So is the cell spe's "downgrade" confirmed ?

[supervegeta]

I can't tell you how many people came into a store I used to work for and who immediately marked Gamecube off their lists because it didn't offer DVD movie playback..

dvd playback is not the same as video blog chat, you are comparing a mass market like the movie dvd market to a very small market like the video chat thing.

 

[Titanio]

dvd playback is not the same as video blog chat, you are comparing a mass market like the movie dvd market to a very small market like the video chat thing.

Video chat is very popular online, and would be popularised further by systems like PS3. My point is, plenty of casuals cared very much about functionality in PS2 beyond games, to the point that competing systems (DC) were bundling such functionality via standalone players here at one point.

 

[supervegeta]

The same i valid for you too. At least some poeple here have more knowledge than you in the subject.

I dubdt any people here have the ability to read into the future, so no one know what will be the real facts.

Flawed comparison.

It is a right comparison because we are talking about the same mass market.

 

[Farid]

Ok, it's starting to grow old, now

Use the conditional when you're guessing, folks, please.

Do not use present simple when you're talking about things you have no knowledge about. Especially when you do not even define the unspecific terms you're using.

 

[mrdarko]

Casual gamers or the mass market are not what you wish they are so you can stop to guess what the ps3 casual games will want.

We have to look at the facts and all the ps2 casual gamers could not care less about pvr , multiple video stream and even about online play, they only cared about the games.

Have we to remember again the Psx failure in japan ?

Ok,if the casual consumer doesn't care about pvr then does that apply to xbox live for xbox 1?
The casual gamer seemed to not care about xbox live.

Out of ~25m sold,only 2-4m got live(correct me if i'm wrong)

 

[supervegeta]

Video chat is very popular online, and would be popularised further by systems like PS3. My point is, plenty of casuals cared very much about functionality in PS2 beyond games, to the point that competing systems (DC) were bundling such functionality via standalone players here at one point.

You can't compare the appeal of the mass market dvd option to the video chat option really.

 

[Titanio]

You can't compare the dvd option to the video chat option really.

You started. I simply questioned the notion that "casual" PS2 owners cared for nothing but games. Untrue in my experience.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Could someone explain to me how the PS3 would recieve digital cable channels for it's PVR functionality? I am just confused on when it got a tuner, and how one would connect the system to be able to record one program while letting you watch another.


Would Sony have to pay the cable co's to have the PS3 added as a device that can do the things that the cable co's already have boxes for? IE does TIVO work without having to pay for any more services?

Ya this is really the confusing part here. Obviously, in it's current form, it can't be a true PVR.

My guess has always been that they'd release(or at least propose) an external NAT solution, that is basically a fat external HDD with TV tuner and video inputs. Since the announcement of the 60GB hdd, I'm not sure what's going on now.

 

[scooby_dooby]

You started. I simply questioned the notion that "casual" PS2 owners cared for nothing but games. Untrue in my experience.

Well the problem is no-one has defined casual. Is it the person who buys it at $99-150 and no higher? Or is it the people who buy it from $400-$200? Two totally different markets right there.

 

[supervegeta]

Ok,if the casual consumer doesn't care about pvr then does that apply to xbox live for xbox 1?
The casual gamer seemed to not care about xbox live.

Out of ~25m sold,only 2-4m got live(correct me if i'm wrong)

Yes it does , xbox live will not sell the xbox360 to the casual gamer, others factors will do.

 

[expletive]

Ya this is really the confusing part here. Obviously, in it's current form, it can't be a true PVR.

My guess has always been that they'd release(or at least propose) an external NAT solution, that is basically a fat external HDD with TV tuner and video inputs. Since the announcement of the 60GB hdd, I'm not sure what's going on now.

They would need an approved, encrypted, method of getting HD video to the PS3, though if youve got a standalone box with a tuner, HDD, and some method of getting HDD, youve essentially just bought another cable/satellite box havent you?

 

[supervegeta]

You started. I simply questioned the notion that "casual" PS2 owners cared for nothing but games. Untrue in my experience.

What i said is that the casual gamer don't care about the niche things like multiple video stream or video blog chat, and the dvd playback was not a niche market when the ps2 was released, so you can't really compare the appeal of the dvd playback to the video chat function.

 

[Titanio]

What i said is that the casual gamer don't care about the niche things like multiple video stream or video blog chat

It's questionable how niche they are or will be going forward. But that's not what you said. Maybe it's what you meant to say, but you actually said this:

"And seeing by the most part of the ps2 owners they owned the ps2 because of the games not because of the additional functions"

Which is a wholly different point.

 

[supervegeta]

It's questionable how niche they are or will be going forward.

The movie market is a mass market and this is not questionale, the video chat market is not a mass market

But that's not what you said. Maybe it's what you meant to say, but you actually said this:
"And seeing by the most part of the ps2 owners they owned the ps2 because of the games not because of the additional functions"
Which is a wholly different point.

If you follow the discussion i was always talking about the video blog chat things and they are niche things

 

[scooby_dooby]

Well I think everyone is right here.

Supervegeta is right in saying that PVR/Blogging etc functionality wil NOT be a driving factor for sales among casual gamers. That's true. It will be the games, the whole games, and nothign but the games. It always has been.

Shifty is right in saying that IF ps3 does implement PVR functionality, or some other added non game-related functionality, that consumers WILL expect it to work, and it will not be acceptable to have it only work on a game by game basis.

We're all good to go?

 

[Titanio]

The movie market is a mass market and this is not questionale, the video chat market is not a mass market.

The communications market is probably the most massmarket of the lot.

Supervegeta is right in saying that PVR/Blogging etc functionality wil NOT be a driving factor for sales among casual gamers. That's true. It will be the games, the whole games, and nothign but the games. It always has been.

As much as we as gamers might like to think this is true, it's simply not in my experience. Most consumers aren't binary switches that switch on and off toward a product based on a single factor, like games. Usually desire accumulates based on a number of factors toward a tipping point, whereafter the customer will make the purchase. In the console market the factors building toward that point have related to more than 'just' games for some time now - as much as this may disquiet some. It's simply not "just about the games" as tempting as it might be to simplify it to that. That's a MASSIVE factor, but not the only the one, and I've seen non-game related factors be a dealbreaker as far as some systems are concerned, if not a deal-maker.

 

[scooby_dooby]

As much as we as gamers might like to think this is true, it's simply not in my experience. Most consumers aren't binary switches that switch on and off toward a product based on a single factor, like games. Usually desire accumulates based on a number of factors toward a tipping point, whereafter the customer will make the purchase. In the console market the factors building toward that point have related to more than 'just' games for some time now - as much as this may disquiet some. It's simply not "just about the games" as tempting as it might be to simplify it to that. That's a MASSIVE factor, but not the only the one, and I've seen non-game related factors be a dealbreaker as far as some systems are concerned, if not a deal-maker.

When you talk about gamers as a whole they are like a binary switch. The console with the most desireable games will win, any added funtionality will not impact that end result. It's first and foremost a game machine.

You experiences are with individuals, but we're talking about gamers as a whole. And as a whole, it's all about the game library, 110%.

It is possible that if the game libraries were nearly identical (which has never happened in console history) then perhaps added functionality could tip the scale. But, with the amount of 1st party titles coming out, this is not the case. So it remains the staus quo, the console with the best 3rd and 1st party games will outsell the other.

 

[supervegeta]

The communications market is probably the most massmarket of the lot.

You can alredy see this on the xbox360, it offer voice chat and it will offer video chat but i dubdt this will sell it to the casual gamer.

 

[Titanio]

When you talk about gamers as a whole they are like a binary switch. The console with the most desireable games will win, any added funtionality will not impact that end result. It's first and foremost a game machine.

You experiences are with individuals, but we're talking about gamers as a whole. And as a whole, it's all about the game library, 110%.

Yeah, but it's all way way more complicated than that. Desire surrounding aspects of a system (image, marketing, extra functionality etc.) driving its sales can help precipitate the latter (best game library). It's all inter-dependent, it is all definitely more than just the games, even if the latter - the best game library - emerges.

All I can speak from is my own experience with a couple of years in retail. The overwhelming trend among 'casuals', in my experience, was that they were brand driven, games driven, and "extra-game" functionality driven to varying, but often equal degrees. Lots of them didn't even know which system had the best games, more than they knew they wanted a Playstation for example, and would ask about libraries on the various systems. It's a bit of a chicken-and-the-egg scenario - does the market follow the best game library, or vice versa? It's a bit in between, IMO, and lots and lots of factors enter into play, to precipitate the market on a particular system.

You can alredy see this on the xbox360, it offer voice chat and it will offer video chat but i dubdt this will sell it to the casual gamer.

The lack of it could be missed by some. Perhaps not a dealbreaker, but an extra straw on the back, pushing them toward or away from a system.

 

[Shompola]

Wait!!! PS3 might have a digitalTV tuner aswell? In software? That would be very cool... Then I dont need to buy another probably with less features for 50 euros. Is it possible that the PS3 might also have an HDTV tuner aswell? And if it will, I take it you can upgrade it if for some reason the tuner lacks in some parts? Wonder if it via software could be configured for cable, satellite and other means of transmitting digitalTV.

I really hope they will focuse on implementing these things... I know SONY wont gain anything by doing so, but it would be a very nice gesture if they did.