So is the cell spe's "downgrade" confirmed ?

[ShootMyMonkey]

I wasn't so much using PS2 as a comparison (nor should we use PSP either), just mentioning that the OS reservered a chunk initially, but then requirements went down after Sony finalised the OS.

In the case of the PSP, it was seemingly the opposite. I don't know what the initial projections were for the chunk of room the OS would take up, but there was the fact that the early specs suggested 8 MB of RAM and then the final unit has 32 MB. Just so happens that the OS as it is reserves 8 MB.

Now in fairness, on the PSP, you've got things like a web browser, music players, video players, etc. which are all part of the firmware package, so there's probably some space in that 8 MB that's reserved for the memory footprint of those tools (excluding content they view/play) whether they're in use or not because you do have the ability to step out of PSP games and go to the main menu and use pretty much whatever.

I doubt the core kernel itself really eats up much at all, and that's largely true of the reserved memory space on the X360. It's not really the kernel that drinks it all so much as the content it is has to (or is given the opportunity to) shuffle around.

Oh oh, I have a great idea. Why not make a GPU that... can't write destination alpha and leave the 4th byte in all DWORDs reserved! - presto, 64MB extra memory.

How many render contexts are you thinking of messing with that 1 byte per pixel out of the framebuffers and/or rendertargets adds up to 64 MB? It's not as if you can ignore the 1 byte out of *every* DWORD that will ever be in VRAM.

 

[DeanoC]

How many render contexts are you thinking of messing with that 1 byte per pixel out of the framebuffers and/or rendertargets adds up to 64 MB? It's not as if you can ignore the 1 byte out of *every* DWORD that will ever be in VRAM.

I've always thought there was too much red in games today, lets get rid of it and then nobody will be able to complain the graphics aren't 'next gen' enough. Last-gen - red, next-gen - revolutionary no red shaders ;-)

 

[Robert.L]

And so it starts

http://www.ps3portal.com/ps3/article/352.html by tomorrow this will hit all the media on the net most likely

 

[Mefisutoferesu]

http://www.ps3portal.com/ps3/article/352.html by tomorrow this will hit all the media on the net most likely

It's been begining for the last few days or so from what I can tell.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94635

 

[ShootMyMonkey]

I've always thought there was too much red in games today, lets get rid of it and then nobody will be able to complain the graphics aren't 'next gen' enough. Last-gen - red, next-gen - revolutionary no red shaders

Why do we need color anyway? Everything need only be dark and unintelligible to begin with, and then everybody can be impressed by our shadow technology (everything is in shadow). The only lighting will be momentary flashes of strobing and the user will be too busy having seizures to notice that it's all one hue.

 

[one]

http://www.ps3portal.com/ps3/article/352.html by tomorrow this will hit all the media on the net most likely

As of the last year, in 2 of Xbox 360 CPU cores around 5% load was reserved, not 3%. Did it change at some point?

 

[mckmas8808]

And why did that website report that only 5 SPEs will be used for gamecode?

Damn DeanoC I wish Sony would let you guys talk about the system. May 9th right? Or is it the 8th when they let you talk?

 

[Lycan]

The mutifonction issues are ok...But when fulfilling these functions brings in problems as far as THE CORE activity is concerned...
Cutting back 1 SPE + alloting 96 M...What the hell are they thinking ? Seems a lot of the machine's potential will be held back because of memory...
At least, the competition will be stiffer than thought... (VS 360)...
It does bother to a certain extent though...Coming ack one year later wih less memory : Maybe they wanted to create a precedent in History...

 

[expletive]

And why did that website report that only 5 SPEs will be used for gamecode?

Damn DeanoC I wish Sony would let you guys talk about the system. May 9th right? Or is it the 8th when they let you talk?

I think their info states that one is always reserved and one must be 'available' to the OS at all times. Which means that if the OS needs it, the game needs to be able to relinquish and and still be functional. (I think?)

 

[Carl B]

It does bother to a certain extent though...Coming ack one year later wih less memory : Maybe they wanted to create a precedent in History...

Well I know you're joking around Lycan, but in fact I believe Sony will be trying to set a precedent on the non-gaming side of things... thus the resource allocation. So it's not really something that should be viewed as less RAM or less compute resources on the system level, rather the gaming level specifically... and that's really what this thread is about.

But certainly I wouldn't view it as an 'issue' of power or anything, maybe an issue of priorities if anything. Since I'm all for non-gaming functionality, well I'm looking forward to apps that should warrant such a set-aside. For some people though, this whole thing is fairly aggravating I'm sure.

 

[expletive]

Well I know you're joking around Lycan, but in fact I believe Sony will be trying to set a precedent on the non-gaming side of things... thus the resource allocation. So it's not really something that should be viewed as less RAM or less compute resources on the system level, rather the gaming level specifically... and that's really what this thread is about.

But certainly I wouldn't view it as an 'issue' of power or anything, maybe an issue of priorities if anything. Since I'm all for non-gaming functionality, well I'm looking forward to apps that should warrant such a set-aside. For some people though, this whole thing is fairly aggravating I'm sure.

You think if I promise Sony to buy a stand alone BR player they'll give me back these 2 SPEs? Personally, i havent heard one 'multifunction' idea that justifies almost 30% of the Cell's gaming resources...

 

[mckmas8808]

I think their info states that one is always reserved and one must be 'available' to the OS at all times. Which means that if the OS needs it, the game needs to be able to relinquish and and still be functional. (I think?)

No he said 1 of 7 is used for the O.S. and 1 of 7 is used for redundacy. That's wrong. It's 1 of 8.

 

[expletive]

No he said 1 of 7 is used for the O.S. and 1 of 7 is used for redundacy. That's wrong. It's 1 of 8.

http://www.ps3portal.com/?view=article&article=352&p=2

- 1 SPE of 7 constantly reserved
- 1 SPE of 7 able to be "taken" by the OS at a moments notice (games have to give it up if requested)

Incidentally, were the original 200 Gflops specs based on a 7 or 8 SPE cell?

 

[mckmas8808]

http://www.ps3portal.com/?view=article&article=352&p=2



Incidentally, were the original 200 Gflops specs based on a 7 or 8 SPE cell?

Doesn't matter to what I was saying. What you just quoted is what's wrong on that site. It should be 1 of 8 for both examples.

 

[expletive]

Doesn't matter to what I was saying. What you just quoted is what's wrong on that site. It should be 1 of 8 for both examples.

My understanding was that each PS3 Cell will have 7 usable SPEs. The chip itself has 8, but one will be disabled to improve yields, therefore and reservations by the OS are subtracted from 7, not 8. Is that not the case?

 

[Lycan]

yeah XB...
However, I am still a bit disappointed. If you want to chat...fine : get yourself a PC. The PS3 is aimed at gaming in the first place. Stuck a BR : Fine; excellent idea (Though the price would suffer). However, reducing the number of SPEs (I could not imagine such a scenario : 1SPE desactivated for yields : Normal. Another SPU dedicated to OS : Huh...No prob. A third one might be of use as well : What the **** ). And as far as the memory is concerned, I don't need to voice out my concern !
Don't get me wrong : I was simply hoping -As it has always been the case- that a machine that comes a WHOLE year later, distinguishes itself from the competition. It's a natural aspiration, don't you think so ? Sony claimed clear technological advances. In a sense, the playstation3 seems to offer them; it's just that these prowesses seem oriented as things that do not remotely relate to the core experience gaming. But who am I to judge a group of smart technicians/busineesmen ? Still, it remains to be seen if their strategy of all-in-one wold pay off..

 

[Carl B]

You think if I promise Sony to buy a stand alone BR player they'll give me back these 2 SPEs? Personally, i havent heard one 'multifunction' idea that justifies almost 30% of the Cell's gaming resources...

Well, I see where you're coming from Expletive, but we know it's not BR functionality that's eating these things up. DVR, in game video chat, Location Free streaming to TVs, PSPs, whatever... I mean it's cool potential despite the trade-offs. Again though, this is stuff that appeals to myself, where some people are definitely going to feel it's a waste.

But if the games come out 'great' still, will it be something that actually prevents someone from purchasing the console? Probably not - whereas their inclusion might entice some to buy the console.

I mean but again, I see both sides of the argument and where you're coming from.

Sony claimed clear technological advances. In a sense, the playstation3 seems to offer them; it's just that these prowesses seem oriented as things that do not remotely relate to the core experience gaming. But who am I to judge a group of smart technicians/busineesmen ? Still, it remains to be seen if their strategy of all-in-one wold pay off..

Hey I agree, the PS3 definitely is going to stray from a sole focus on the 'core gaming' experience, but this is a conscious move on Sony's part; and honestly has been Kutaragi's desire with the Playstation brand all along. Is it smart or not, only history will tell.

 

[mckmas8808]

My understanding was that each PS3 Cell will have 7 usable SPEs. The chip itself has 8, but one will be disabled to improve yields, therefore and reservations by the OS are subtracted from 7, not 8. Is that not the case?

Let me show you what his wording is doing, watch.

However, reducing the number of SPEs (I could not imagine such a scenario : 1SPE desactivated for yields : Normal. Another SPU dedicated to OS : Huh...No prob. A third one might be of use as well : What the **** ).

See? Where are people getting this third SPE that will be held back? It's places like that article that's wording it incorrectly.

 

[Platon]

Doesn't matter to what I was saying. What you just quoted is what's wrong on that site. It should be 1 of 8 for both examples.

No, there are 7 functional SPEs on the PS3 cell, hence, whatever SPEs will be used by the OS or whatever, those will be sustracted from 7, not 8...

 

[Platon]

Let me show you what his wording is doing, watch.



See? Where are people getting this third SPE that will be held back? It's places like that article that's wording it incorrectly.

Why, it is correct. Sure, it is not s 3rd SPE that is held back by the OS, and noone has said it is, but still for whatever reason up to 3 SPEs might not be available for gamming code...