SDTV owners and next-gen systems - beware?

[Guden Oden]

Honestly, is there any one, looking seriously at the X360, that will play it on a SDTV ?

You're joking, right?

Please take note that the majority of the population of earth aren't techno-geek gearheads and don't really understand, and often don't even care all that much about widescreen/HD TV sets. Many of them see it as an unneccessary expense invented by the industry simply to pump them out of even more money, and many may have bought a new SD TV fairly recently (in their own opinion) and may not have the inclination to get another one, or the financial means for that matter to do so.

Sorry, but your post reeks of sheer and utter ignorance.

or use your computer monitor ?

For starters, most people likely have quite small PC monitors (as larger screens were very expensive up until fairly recently). Second, many of those monitors are analog, with only a single VGA input and maybe perhaps BNC as well if it's a higher-end unit. And there is no BNC cable for x360, nor are these people likely to know about the extra BNC in either or what it does so it wouldn't matter anyway. They stick the VGA cord in the socket it fits into (sometimes perhaps trying the monitor power plug socket first), that's the extent of most people's technical skills. Why else you think the computer industry started color-coding all the inputs a couple years back? Coz otherwise people couldn't find the right connector to stick the cables into! Sometimes they just picked any random one where the cable seemed to fit (and forced it if it did not). Remember the "cup holder" stories that did the rounds on the web a couple years ago? Think the situation has improved since? Think again!

You have to consider the majority of people find it difficult to program a VCR or use the more advanced timer functions on a microwave oven. You expect them to hook up a games console to a computer monitor? Come on!

 

[Powderkeg]

19 inch computer monitor and decent PC speakers or 36" flatscreen television with 800 watt 6.1 surround sound.....

I think I'll sacrifice a tad bit of resolution. In fact, since I have the screen space to do it I may even run letterboxed so I can get the full view of widescreen.

 

[Platon]

This is all true, but it would seem to make sense that any per-pixel effect is at risk of "dilution" with a resolution drop. I'm just surprised it's to the point of virtually nullifying differences relative to current systems, even for the launch titles (I mean PGR3 looks damn good at high def!)

No doubt high res will add a lot ot games, that can not be enjoyed by SDTV users. But I am thinking of normal TV shows. They have been low res since ever, and still I don't see a single game, no matter how high res, being able to even come near the realism of a TV show in lowres. SO how good and many would say how realistic things look is not awlays a matter of only the resolution. What is a bit annoying is that due to the high res a lot of power is used for that and developers I guess will be concentrating on making games look nice on hires instead of concentrating on effects/atributes that would be more benefitioal to SDTVs...

 

[dopefishzzz]

Guden Oden,

I just think that paying 399$ for a next gen console and pluging it on a SDTV is a waste of cash. Hi-Def is THE number one reason to get a 360. Proof. Take any 360 games and play it on a SD, and it will look exactly like an original XBOX game. Look at all the complaints people had when they saw the X360 wallmart kiosk running at 480i/p.

Buying a used 99$ XBOX and 300$ worth of used XBOX games would be a more intelligent solution for them, until they dump their old SD set.

(but hey, It's just an opinion, don't be so agressive)

:smile:

 

[scooby_dooby]

Judging by reviews and reports on X360 games thusfar, it seems there may be a serious problem in the value presented to SDTV owners, or the most readily apparent value at least (graphics). According to many reviews, the games don't look much better at all than what current systems are pumping out, when viewed on a SDTV.

For example:

Interesting examples. To better balance the point, you should provide some quotes for games that do look very good on SDTV.

For example gamespots Kameo review where he says it's "markedly impressive" on an SDTV. And COD2 which still "looks better than any xbox game we've ever seen"

 

[London Geezer]

I just think that paying 399$ for a next gen console and pluging it on a SDTV is a waste of cash. Hi-Def is THE number one reason to get a 360. Proof.

That has nothing to do with the opinion you have that apparently everyone buying an X360 has a HDTV, which is ridiculous.

Take any 360 games and play it on a SD, and it will look exactly like an original XBOX game.

No.

Look at all the complaints people had when they saw the X360 wallmart kiosk running at 480i/p.

Look at all the complaints people had when they saw anyything they can complain about, when they don't know what they're talking about.

Buying a used 99$ XBOX and 300$ worth of used XBOX games would be a more intelligent solution for them, until they dump their old SD set.

Ok so you're saying that the X360 should only be bought by people with HDTVs? Thank god you don't work for MS or they'd be ruined.


And never mind Guden's aggression, he's like that with everyone except me, but u know, we have a thing

 

[Nite_Hawk]

I think the biggest problem here is the launch games. I know a number of people here disagree with me, but I wasn't very impressed with them at all. They felt (to me) like slightly improved, hi-res versions of the better looking games from last generation. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it certainly wasn't enough to make me go "wow!". Given my impression of these games (or atleast the demos that were being displayed), I could quite easily see how displaying these on a normal SDTV set would result in graphics that don't look terribly advanced over what is currently available.

The 2nd generation of 360 games will be more telling. It will also be interesting to see how the mandatory 720p requirement holds up. Do people care more about high resolution, or more about low resolution with better looking effects? Certainly those with SD sets care more about the effects. for HDTV owners, it seems like it may be more complicated.

I think in some ways, that nintendo might be making a bit of shrewd move by focusing on 480p. It will depend on how quickly they can get the revolution out, and how quickly HDTV is adopted. They have a very specific window of time to make the strategy work.

Nite_Hawk

 

[dopefishzzz]

That has nothing to do with the opinion you have that apparently everyone buying an X360 has a HDTV, which is ridiculous. :

Everyone buying an X360 probably has a HDTV OR a computer monitor, YES.

No.

:

First-gen X360 games is SD looks like XBOX games, Yes. Maybe not for the future releases, but still, take any PC games, put it at 640 X 480, and it will look bad. Like I said, people looked at the wallmarts 360 kiosks that were configurer in 480i/p and said It didn't look any better than XBOX games. I heard that in person, and you can see many 1 month old topic sayin so.

Ok so you're saying that the X360 should only be bought by people with HDTVs? Thank god you don't work for MS or they'd be ruined.:

again.. HDTV OR computer monitor.

And never mind Guden's aggression, he's like that with everyone except me, but u know, we have a thing

 

[flick556]

I used to play all my games at 1024 because I thought rez did not do much. After switching to a higher rez I realize it does tons. In the past low rez textures where used so switching to a higher resolution may not have helped. But today with pixel shaders and high rez textures the difference is night and day. I thinking forcing devs to support 720p by default will have a negative impact on SDTV owners. Their is no question that HD will completely replace SD eventually so this had to be done sooner or later. Me, I don't own a TV only my pc with a tuner card so I will play on my monitor.

 

[rosman]

But i really think that there will be even a bigger difference between STV and HDTV on the best looking games of both ps3/xbox360.
In fact the regular gameplay view for most games, are far from close up, and while last gen these views hid the flaws, today it will hide the quality ( better texturing, models, shading )

The only big diff than can be seen clearly comparing to last gen are lightning, and animation...

 

[Guden Oden]

Hi-Def is THE number one reason to get a 360. Proof. Take any 360 games and play it on a SD, and it will look exactly like an original XBOX game.

It most certainly will not. That's not proof at all.

Look at all the complaints people had when they saw the X360 wallmart kiosk running at 480i/p.

Anecdotal evidence at best. I personally wouldn't bring up walmart incompetence in a discussion and trying to portrait it as infallible proof of my own pet theories...

(but hey, It's just an opinion, don't be so agressive)
:smile:

Well, you just called your opinion proof a few lines up, and you wonder why you get knocked over the head with it?

 

[dopefishzzz]

Right. I probably misused the word "proof" a couple of times...

It's probably due to english being my second language

I still think (opinion) a 360 on a SD is a waste, but that's just me (I found ANYTHING horrible in SD, so I'm probably biased )

 

[Dr. Nick]

Are these launch games downscaled to run on a SDTV or do they natively run in 480i/p when they have to? Also do you guys think games like Gears of War/MGS4 will suffer much when running in SD?

 

[Synergy34]

It most certainly will not. That's not proof at all.


Anecdotal evidence at best. I personally wouldn't bring up walmart incompetence in a discussion and trying to portrait it as infallible proof of my own pet theories...

Why is it incompetence by Walmart for poorly configured kiosks? I would blame MS and their Reps for that blunder. They should be making sure they are set up correctly. This is a new system, they should be paying attention to things like this.

 

[jvd]

The good news is that hdtvs should start dropping drasticly in price (at least that is what alot of people told me when i debated the same thing about bluray and people not seeing the benfits of it)

If true hopefully those 27 inch samsung kiosk displays go from 850$ at best buy down to 600$ or so by next holiday .

Cause i'm sorry but that is way to much for a 27inch tv .

 

[jvd]

Why is it incompetence by Walmart for poorly configured kiosks? I would blame MS and their Reps for that blunder. They should be making sure they are set up correctly. This is a new system, they should be paying attention to things like this.

Right , In my area alone with in 2 days 83 kiosks were set up .

How many ms reps do you think there are ? I will give u a hint . 3 for the state of new jersey .

Thats 3 people for a whole state and i'm talking 83 kisosks within a 15-20 town area or about a 15 minute drive from the furthest one to the furthest one

 

[Nick Laslett]

Guden Oden,

I just think that paying 399$ for a next gen console and pluging it on a SDTV is a waste of cash. Hi-Def is THE number one reason to get a 360. Proof.

Buying a used 99$ XBOX and 300$ worth of used XBOX games would be a more intelligent solution for them, until they dump their old SD set.
:smile:

This is my exact position. I'm sticking with the current gen until i get a HD screen.

I recently bought a £99 Xbox and 10 games.

I have an ED plasma, so I can enjoy the 480p goodness, which your average game has also missed this gen.

Without a HD display, you are mad to buy an Xbox360, imho.

 

[Synergy34]

Right , In my area alone with in 2 days 83 kiosks were set up .

How many ms reps do you think there are ? I will give u a hint . 3 for the state of new jersey .

Thats 3 people for a whole state and i'm talking 83 kisosks within a 15-20 town area or about a 15 minute drive from the furthest one to the furthest one

Thats no excuse IMO. How hard is it to type up some directions for the stores to follow? 3 people in one state can cover some ground.. Plus they don't have to be the ones setting them up from the beginning, just make trips to make sure they are up correct, it's their job.

 

[jvd]

Thats no excuse IMO. How hard is it to type up some directions for the stores to follow? 3 people in one state can cover some ground.. Plus they don't have to be the ones setting them up from the beginning, just make trips to make sure they are up correct, it's their job.

Here is an idea , go to walmart pick a random tv and ask an employee about it . Have fun at all the mistakes they make explaining it to you .

The xbox 360 kiosk my store had directions with it . However the oens shipped the next week were put together by ms to avoid the problems .

I sat and i followed everything and made sure i did things properly and I got great image quality from it . Others at walmart slamed it together and that was that . I actually know one of the guys at the walmart near me and he said the guy setting it up used the svideo plugs and told him that was what he used on his xbox so thats whats right. My friend had to go and rehook up the system and re set up the dashboard .

Sadly not many people have had experiance with hdtvs

 

[scooby_dooby]

This is my exact position. I'm sticking with the current gen until i get a HD screen..

you guys are crazy....ya an SDTV owner will not see a difference between GTA3 and Saint's Row, between Halo 2 and Halo 3, between UC2 and GOW...come on now,

you can watch a 320x240 compressed video of GOW and still tell that's one sweet ass game. Current gen GFX are for the most part blocky, jaggy crap, and there will be a huge difference in the next year as developers start hitting their stride.