"Saturation point"? Innovation>Graphics? Read!
- Thread starter pixelbox
- Start date
mckmas8808
Legend
Nesh said:
So what are you saying? We ALL love DeanoC here at B3D, but at the end of the day he is still a man. He is still human. Different things affect different people. Hopefully for us gamers there will be new developers that get excited about these high powered machines, while people like DeanoC drop off and do smaller titles.
I'm personally hoping for more Hollywood F/X guys, Directors (i.e. Steven Speilberg), Executive Producers, and writers to get into this next-gen gaming thing and make PS3 and X360 games the best thing since slice bread.
zidane1strife
Banned
Way I see it rev. won't have the gphx nor 'real' innovation, just gimmicks, but at least it'll look sexy. I mean it's not just gpu power but cpu power and ram size that's expected to be significantly downscaled as compared to competitors.
Revolutionary games with uber physics, destructable worlds, 1000s of realistic zombies, uber cool water physics, cloth physics(super immersive and cool.), uber ai, tons of particles(a must in zoe and ac like mech games), and who knows how many other innovations can be had with large worlds that open up the skies and the lands, and have custom physics, with all that additional ram/cpu/gpu power.(see mistwalker's rumored behind closed doors demo, zooming in from outer space into a forest then a tree and then a leaf, or something like that, an immersive experience that could have many gameplay applications like say if your character could change size, or for games like katamari, going from toying with insects to cities to the celestial landscape in a single lvl or in another game having the hero seemlessly leaving the planet and travelling to another.).
There's also the possibility of using processors like the cell in conjunction with eye-toy2 to lip-synch, and convey body language across the web through custom-made-realistic avatars, bringing a whole new level of immersion to mmorpgs and other online games by improving their central aspect of communication.
I see rev. as I see the ds, a low cost system, that will lead to a few gimmicky games, a few games that might warrant the interface but won't be anything out of this world, and the rest of the games barely if at all using the interface(and many using it in a seemingly forced manner.)
Realistic gphx will more than likely bring in more casuals than other approaches, casuals have already been introduced to the controller interface with the most buttons(mouse+keyboard), even kids are being introduced to these from early ages. Gaming is becoming ever more mainstream and acceptable, older people probably have difficulty relating to the cartoonish low-poly-low-rez-textures of yesteryear, as realistic characters and worlds come into play they'll be able to better relate to them and accept the hobby. Almost any adult with a reasonable iq introduced to the pc mouse/keyboard interface will learn to deal with the interface and use it for more than simple solitaire. Managing a more complex interface, especially with games, will surely ease the transition into the less complex controllers used by consoles.
Revolutionary games with uber physics, destructable worlds, 1000s of realistic zombies, uber cool water physics, cloth physics(super immersive and cool.), uber ai, tons of particles(a must in zoe and ac like mech games), and who knows how many other innovations can be had with large worlds that open up the skies and the lands, and have custom physics, with all that additional ram/cpu/gpu power.(see mistwalker's rumored behind closed doors demo, zooming in from outer space into a forest then a tree and then a leaf, or something like that, an immersive experience that could have many gameplay applications like say if your character could change size, or for games like katamari, going from toying with insects to cities to the celestial landscape in a single lvl or in another game having the hero seemlessly leaving the planet and travelling to another.).
There's also the possibility of using processors like the cell in conjunction with eye-toy2 to lip-synch, and convey body language across the web through custom-made-realistic avatars, bringing a whole new level of immersion to mmorpgs and other online games by improving their central aspect of communication.
I see rev. as I see the ds, a low cost system, that will lead to a few gimmicky games, a few games that might warrant the interface but won't be anything out of this world, and the rest of the games barely if at all using the interface(and many using it in a seemingly forced manner.)
Realistic gphx will more than likely bring in more casuals than other approaches, casuals have already been introduced to the controller interface with the most buttons(mouse+keyboard), even kids are being introduced to these from early ages. Gaming is becoming ever more mainstream and acceptable, older people probably have difficulty relating to the cartoonish low-poly-low-rez-textures of yesteryear, as realistic characters and worlds come into play they'll be able to better relate to them and accept the hobby. Almost any adult with a reasonable iq introduced to the pc mouse/keyboard interface will learn to deal with the interface and use it for more than simple solitaire. Managing a more complex interface, especially with games, will surely ease the transition into the less complex controllers used by consoles.
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Exactly he is human.I love him too (the friendly waymckmas8808 said:
) but thats exactly what the point is.There are limits.Humans have limits.We want so much(including me), so many things in the visual department (your reply is proof as well as I), games become visually so complex that at the end these people, the devs these humans that work like crazy spend too much time trying to offer us visual goodness, sacrificing "stamina", energy and at the end they struggle to get as much out of the limited time left to improve on other creative departments like gameplay.Human has limited tolerance.They have no choice.Its a dead end.And at the same time we cant do otherwise but want these visual improvements.Its in the nature of the consumer to only see the end product not the effort put behind it.The consumer sets expectations and just waits them to be satisfied.
Notice I am not saying that graphics are a bad thing.I am saying that game developers get more constrained/restrained as technology advances. Publishers, the main financial power, that back up developers want profits(that are harder to get today), they set deadlines, they set more constrains to those developers.
Room for creativity needs more money, more manpower, more effort.And thats what respected developers like DeanoC want to offer.Creativity.They do their best to do that.But generally the gaming industry suffers from these difficulties.Gaming is being transformed into just another product because most devs even the ones that want to offer something unique are forced to create just another product due to being restrained.Not interactive creative entertertainment which is what gaming is for me and I am sure for all of us..
Smaller developers are finding a hard time to survive and create what they want
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mckmas8808
Legend
Nesh said:
HOLD ON buddy! I wouldn't go that far with it. Actually to me gaming is being transformed into an unstoppable force. Not interactive creative entertainment? What do you think Spore is? I agree with most of your post but then you got a little too crazy.
Understand there will ALWAYS be creative games that will come out in the future thats a bet. The Revolution will really make sure of that. To me gaming is 2x's as better than it used to be during the Super NES/Genesis days. The variety of games today is unmatched compared to yesterdays games.
That's why I give two thumbs up to Nintendo for go on a different path. That's why I give two thumbs up to Sony for wanting to push the Eyetoy bigger and harder. That's why I give two thumbs up to MS for pushing Xbox Arcade realizing that simple games are fun too.
So don't worry Nesh gaming next-gen will be everything except shallow.
It may not be shallow, but will it be any good if the creative minds that have the good ideas don't get to create those ideas because they have other jobs and the decision makers won't listen to them? Thats Deano's point. He wants to work creating games, but he's working at overseeing programming. I guess he's in the right industry, wrong job, but it's where his career path has led him. However once upon a time the games industry wasn't divided so much into different jobs. The team that provides the code, graphics and music also designed the gameplay. Deano mourns that loss (if I'm reading him right). There exist creative people who want to have a had in creating the whole game, not just a bit of it following someone else's plan. The question is, where do they go to be able to do this?
Inane_Dork said:
Yes, but we buy new consoles because we want new things (gfx is a eg) if XB360 only had XB possible games why would I spend 300$? If a new console does not bring nothing new then it does not worth a PS2 or GC would give us the games like those that would be only avaible on Xb360 but possible to do on current gen.
Yet GW like games are a nice addition.
If by "mainstream" you mean "15-year-old males of all ages," then yeah. The only video game machine appealing outside of the usual demographic is low-poly-low-res and cheap. The $400 uebermonster with the $60 games is just maintaining the status quo.zidane1strife said:
Yeah, PC games are really exploding these days among the casual and non-gamer.
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zidane1strife
Banned
The problem with pc games is that many lend a copy to their friends, and those keep on giving foward...fearsomepirate said:
As for price it'll eventually come down as always. Remember as each generation passes a new generation of gamers arrives and the prior one gets older and many keep gaming, making gaming a socially acceptable thing in their age group.
I see neural interfaces(once they get sensitive/precise enough with cap only to allow for fast and complex movements with but a thought) as the only 'truly' revolutionary controller interface. Cameras could be considered revolutionary, in the mean time, for online games if they can be used to accurately transmit lip-synch and body language through the various online custom avatars. Most anything else I view as likely to lead to gimmicky and limited solutions, as I believe stands with the revolution wand and can be seen with its various add-ons to compensate for limited functionality.
deathstar121
Newcomer
Read my sig, that's what I think about gaming, what will 360, PS3, and Rev offer me that will make me change my mind about gaming, gaming is moving to the Metal Gear type of gaming, where there's no game play and alot of Story telling, alot of gamers get exicted by little things that system couldn't do last gen, i don't... when gaming went from 2D to 3D it was great, but the second generation of 3D has been boring and dull, I have more fun playin Mario 64 than playing 98% of the games on the market today and that's including 360.
Games IMO has reached boiling point where the temperture will drop, I don't think we will have a gaming crash like there was back in the Atari days, but right now it looks just like the Atari days were all the games are the same and there's no innovation in the games, I see gaming slowing down to a point where companies like Squarenix and Sony will merge, or even MS and Nintendo, there's some rough waters ahead for gaming industry and I won't be here to see it, because I already think gaming is garbage and couldn't offer me any thing new.
Games IMO has reached boiling point where the temperture will drop, I don't think we will have a gaming crash like there was back in the Atari days, but right now it looks just like the Atari days were all the games are the same and there's no innovation in the games, I see gaming slowing down to a point where companies like Squarenix and Sony will merge, or even MS and Nintendo, there's some rough waters ahead for gaming industry and I won't be here to see it, because I already think gaming is garbage and couldn't offer me any thing new.
This gen console games were for the most part "trash" because developers were tinkering with the machine more the gameplay possiblities. Also as i mentioned earlier, this gen's tech was in restraint...so to speak. You could not express what you wanted due to tech restrains. On one hand you had enough precessing power to do more, and one the other not enough to fully implement gameplay ideas.deathstar121 said:
pixelbox said:
We'll always be limited by technology, doesn't mean games will be "trash" as you put it, because of that.
There have been amazing games this generation, like there were the one before and all the ones before it, and liek there will be in the next ones.
Of course some devs could express what they wanted, but it's obvious they will always have to keep within a limit of technology. That doesn't make the games they make any more "trash" than games that will use more advanced technology in the future.
mckmas8808
Legend
deathstar121 said:
I'm sorry but between you and pixelbox you guys sound like 2 80 year old grumpy men. Gaming is at a high point right now. It's actually higher than it has ever been in gaming history when you take the handhelds into the consideration. So what are you two guys talking about?
Well i was refering to games like MGS3 which could benefit from more memory to have bigger levels instead of loading sections. I don't think Hideo wanted that. I also don't think games were trash this gen...not the later oneslondon-boy said:
. And i also know that you will always have a restaint. But these consoles(ps2,gc,xbox) drain developing time because of the fact that you had more things to worry about. One problem is getting a game to look right with limited memory and power. So while dev's could be refining gameplay, they're making sure the game runs and is void of popups and other problems associated with l.o.d.. L.O.D. is one thing you don't have to worry about much next gen and that's why i believe games will be better next gen from the added power.