"Saturation point"? Innovation>Graphics? Read!

[mckmas8808]

Pictures ... Movies?!

Until we see PlayStation 3 dole out this sort of interactive entertainment, chalk it up to marketing mantra. :neutral:

Marketing mantra from Kojima? WTH man the game will look way better when released. Kojima has stated that himself.

The visceral difference between current and next generation consoles is becoming less and less obvious.

This is because the cost of progress is becoming more and more expensive.

As a consequence, it is easier to differentiate games on earlier systems than later ones. PlayStation 3, for instance, should leapfrog over PS2 -- but its jump will not be as dramatic as the one PS2 made over the original PlayStation.

So again looking at launch games on the X360 gave you this conclusion right?
Let me ask you one quick question and please lets be civil here. If the Xbox 360 and PS3 gave us games that looked and played like the Killzone video would that jump be as wide from the PS3/360 era from PS2, as the jump from the PS2 to PSone era?

 

[ninzel]

That's a good example of a simple game on a "complex" controller. It doesn't work the other way though.

Animal Crossing can be done entirely with one hand with the stylus, . I guess it all depends on how you define complex. Does the complexity have to be defined by finger gymnastics or by what's going on in the brain. It depends on who you ask I guess.
In real life, the complex tasks we undertake are usually done within the brain with very little in the way of manual dexterity going on. Unless of course you are a brain surgeon.
There are many examples of what I would define as complex tasks that could be turned into games played with one stylus(or Revmote).

 

[OtakingGX]

Reading a little in how GRAW plays, I don't see how this couldn't be possible on a revmote + nunchuck setup. Movement and camera control are there. Things like switching weapons, reloading, putting on night vision goggles could be mapped to hand gestures. To use the d-pad you have to take your thumb off of the left analog stick on a normal controller. With your thumb on the revmote's d-pad you can give squad orders while aiming and shooting.

I'm sure for the hardcore, more complex means better. But for most people, the more intuitive and easy to learn an interface is, the more likely they'll use it.

 

[Nesh]

People have finite amounts of money to spend on entertainment. Nintendo wants to appeal to people who currently aren't in the console gaming scene. A $400 console goes a long way toward not accomplishing that. Further, DS proved that gamers will buy stuff that has less than cutting-edge graphics as long as the promise of an otherwise totally sweet gaming experience.

The world is full of little niches. And in those niches people pay for what they like as long as it's reasonable for what they want. What i'm trying to say is a niche is a niche, if people like games they will buy it. Nintendo isn't reaching for something new with that wand. It's still gonna be a game no matter how you slice it. Sony's plan to make videogames mainstream will help it to grow instead of making it more bizarre to the consumers. Now a days more people are accustomed to how videogames look and plays. Getting more use to it's presence as entertainment than a fad or childish, (The same thing happened to the movie industry btw). Older people(40 up) are amazed at what they see and are genuinely entertained. All i see Nintendo doing is estranging what the industry has been growing to. The industry needs to become bigger than what it is and the direction Nintendo wants to go will only place it in a more simplistic, child-like novelty as before, granted if they suceed.

Actually even if they do want to compete graphically Nintendo doesnt have the financial ability to compete in that department.

edit: oh and btw the gaming industry is growing in a very compressed manner because of the evolution on graphics alone and things may even result at hurting the industry.Nintendo's direction could regenerate the industry.
Dont judge based only on the Rev alone.Judge based on the new gaming possibilities they will bring and others may adapt and improve in a healthy manner gaining more users, more people that werent interested in gaming before

 

[pc999]

Actually even if they do want to compete graphically Nintendo doesnt have the financial ability to compete in that department.

 

[mckmas8808]

edit: oh and btw the gaming industry is growing in a very compressed manner because of the evolution on graphics alone and things may even result at hurting the industry.Nintendo's direction could regenerate the industry.
Dont judge based only on the Rev alone.Judge based on the new gaming possibilities they will bring and others may adapt and improve in a healthy manner gaining more users, more people that werent interested in gaming before

Hold on WTH is this talk? So, Geometry Wars sucks on the Xbox 360 now?

 

[pc999]

Hold on WTH is this talk? So, Geometry Wars sucks on the Xbox 360 now?

And how will buy a XB360 to play games that could play on a XB (or a NES), people buy new consoles to play games that couldnt play on their old consoles.

 

[Inane_Dork]

And how will buy a XB360 to play games that could play on a XB (or a NES), people buy new consoles to play games that couldnt play on their old consoles.

That's not true. It's not fully true, at least. If it was, then no one would ever care about backwards compatibility and Nintendo's NES-GC support on the Rev would have been laughed off by now.

I think it's much more accurate to say that people buy consoles to play the games on those consoles. The games need not be testaments to advanced technology or anything. They just need to be attractive and not available on the previous generation of hardware.

 

[standing ovation]

Marketing mantra from Kojima? WTH man the game will look way better when released. Kojima has stated that himself.

Talk is cheap -- really cheap when we're looking at videos and unreleased hardware.

If the Xbox 360 and PS3 gave us games that looked and played like the Killzone video would that jump be as wide from the PS3/360 era from PS2, as the jump from the PS2 to PSone era?

Uh ... no. :neutral:

What we are talking about here is analogous to the migration from B&W to color ... to HDTV.

The use of color was the real revolution; broadening the color palate and such were merely evolutionary. Frill gobbles up more and more resources, yet is greeted with less and less enthusiasm.

So the farther we move from the tipping point, the more frivolous new technologies become.

As far as videogames are concerned, the renaissance was 3D. Thereafter, everything else has been an extension of that theme. PlayStation 3, while eye-popping, will not be as groundbreaking as PlayStation 2; likewise PS2 is not the revolution that PS One was.

 

[fearsomepirate]

All i see Nintendo doing is estranging what the industry has been growing to.

College-age males who can't hold onto jobs or relationships?

 

[pc999]

That's not true. It's not fully true, at least. If it was, then no one would ever care about backwards compatibility and Nintendo's NES-GC support on the Rev would have been laughed off by now.

I think it's much more accurate to say that people buy consoles to play the games on those consoles. The games need not be testaments to advanced technology or anything. They just need to be attractive and not available on the previous generation of hardware.

I dont agree after all if I already can play the game why should I be forced to buy a new console. Games like GW can be a nice adition nothing more, the reason to buy a new console need to be the possibility to do new things so innovation that could be done on last gen is not a reason to buy a new console IMO.

 

[Inane_Dork]

I dont agree after all if I already can play the game why should I be forced to buy a new console.

Because the new game is made only for the new console, like I just told you. Buying new hardware is an unwanted necessity. People just want to buy and play the games. If that means upgrading consoles, then when there's enough games to warrant that, they will. It really has nothing to do with whether those games are innovative. It has everything to do with whether those games are desirable.

By way of analogy, do you think most people are looking forward to buying HD-DVD or Blu-Ray players? They're not. They're going to hold on to DVD until there is so much to gain by upgrading (HD, different movies, whatever) that they deem the hardware cost acceptable. The content need not be innovative. It just needs to be desirable.

 

[nintenho]

Think about it for a second, if you make an immersive game using the revolution controller then that game probably wouldn't be nearly as good on another system....that sounds like a decent business plan with the image that Nintendo is giving the revolution.

 

[expletive]

Think about it for a second, if you make an immersive game using the revolution controller then that game probably wouldn't be nearly as good on another system....that sounds like a decent business plan with the image that Nintendo is giving the revolution.

I dont think anyone doubts that really good games can be made with the rev controller. I think the question from the beginning has been, how many before the novelty of that controller starts to get gimmicky. Also, as developers start forging ahead graphically with PS3, 360, and PC, will the Rev get left behind as this gen moves on?

 

[nintenho]

I dont think anyone doubts that really good games can be made with the rev controller. I think the question from the beginning has been, how many before the novelty of that controller starts to get gimmicky. Also, as developers start forging ahead graphically with PS3, 360, and PC, will the Rev get left behind as this gen moves on?

The way I see it (gameplay design on rev) is that it would be EXTREMELY easy to sustain pure visceral satisfaction. I....really....can't....think of too many ways you can trick joe gamer into buying a crappy and gimmicky game for revolution without not telling him a single thing about the type of game it is. Honestly, I don't expect Rev's game library to come anywhere close to the size of the PS3's or the 360's, but it's being marketed as a casual's main system or as a alternative system. However, Nintendo really needs to impress everybody in the beginning like they did with Super Mario 64 in order to gain some trust. Their is a difference between having a theory and using it, but I'm absolutely sure that nintendo has enough pride to perfect the feel of their games so that the controller feels like a part of you.............yeah, huh?

 

[Nesh]

They arent as strong financially as MS or Sony to spend the same amounts on R&D, or generate huge losses from hardware for a long period of time

Otherwise you would have seen both the Rev controller and competitive graphics.

Hold on WTH is this talk? So, Geometry Wars sucks on the Xbox 360 now?

No.But you took only one game as an example here.The industry isnt following one game.Right?

You already saw I guess DeanoC's blog in the other thread saying how much time, and effort is spend on the visual department making things harder for devs to create games.

 

[NANOTEC]

Nintendo enjoys huges profits each year and I don't see them wanting to lose lots of money on each console just so it can brag about being the most powerful. History has shown that the least powerful usually ends up on top. Examples are the GB portables and PS2.

 

[nintenho]

Nintendo enjoys huges profits each year and I don't see them wanting to lose lots of money on each console just so it can brag about being the most powerful. History has shown that the least powerful usually ends up on top. Examples are the GB portables and PS2.

There were other advantages that the GB and PS2 had, such as mindshare....

 

[NANOTEC]

There were other advantages that the GB and PS2 had, such as mindshare....

Nintendo consoles have had mindshare since the NES...

 

[nintenho]

Nintendo consoles have had mindshare since the NES...

They lost the majority in home consoles with the N64.....