"Saturation point"? Innovation>Graphics? Read!

[mckmas8808]

ILook at Katamari Damacy, the only thing you really needed were the 2 analogue sticks. You don't need massive amounts of buttons to make compelling games.

Yes of course that's right, but don't you want big immersive games like BIA3?

 

[mckmas8808]

I'm not trying to start a war here, but there were loads of people who thought the DS was dead in the water because of PSP's specs.

Gameplay is what Nintendo is selling. I think they'll do fine with their magic wand.

Of course they will do well, they are Nintendo. My point is why do they have to seem like gameplay is number 1 on the list, while graphics should be number 50 on that same list?

And lets be honest it's Sony's first shot at the handheld market and they are almost tied with Nintendo so far world-wide. (Please lets not start a war about the DS vs. PSP though ). Plain and simple we all know that graphics matter.

 

[pipo]

Of course they will do well, they are Nintendo. My point is why do they have to seem like gameplay is number 1 on the list, while graphics should be number 50 on that same list?

Well, not 50 obviously, but it surely won't be in the same ballpark as the other guys.

The interesting thing is, as long as they have (854 x) 480p and a couple of hardwired tricks (FSAA?) the result could still be pretty impressive. And still very cheap to manufacture.

Not having native 720p support isn't saying a lot IMHO. We need more details...

Oh, and we'll talk about the DS and PSP being 'almost tied' part next year.

 

[Inane_Dork]

Saturation: I think the 360 and PS3 will hit a saturation point for graphics. They will get to the stage where it's only art that makes the difference. Brothers in Arms and Rainbow Six: Vegas are my support here. However, that does not make innovation suddenly the deciding factor in gaming for two reasons. #1 is that you can make a great game without being very innovative (like Halo). There are lots of paths to excellence. #2 is that there's quite substantial doubt as to whether the Rev will reach the same technical level of graphics as the 360 or PS3. And even if the machine can, it's not too likely that the games will show it.

It's highly premature to dismiss Revolution's controller at this stage, when most of us haven't even tried it.

As true as that is (which is quite a bit), it's equally true that it's highly premature to praise the wand right now. That we have an article on a Rev website claiming that the Rev is a revolution is not exactly warranted.

Really, Rev's controller is something you'll have to try before passing judgement on it. I know people who were ardent DS-sceptics, for example, who immediately changed their minds upon trying it out for themselves.

That is, for better or worse, decidedly incorrect. People can, will and already have made final judgments on the controller without using it. Furthermore, said judgments will unfairly sour any attempt to use the wand.

What Nintendo needs to convince people of is that they do indeed have to try it. Without that, they have no real chance (IMO, of course).

 

[pc999]

Why do people keep saying that: better gfx= more immersion ?

Is Super Mario Sunshine more imersive than super Mario 64? IMO no

Is Perfect Dark Zero more imersive than Perfect Dark? IMO no (althought I played little from th first, it bored me)

Is D3 more imersive than Doom?...

Cant see why people keep saying these...

About the remote if you can do any movment I cant see who it will be more limited than any others?

Anyway, like others said, we need to try.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Is ghost recon 3 more immersive than Ghost Recon 1? By a mile, in every possible way. Is FN3 more immersive than FN1? Without a doubt, no contest.

 

[Nicked]

Is ghost recon 3 more immersive than Ghost Recon 1? By a mile, in every possible way. Is FN3 more immersive than FN1? Without a doubt, no contest.

SWISH!
Better AI+Bigger areas+ smaller details + more interaction etc. = better gaming experience, a great reason to buy a new console.

With Revolution you arent getting that. You're hinging everything on a controller that is constantly referenced as 'good for some genres'. Nintendo is going this one alone with marginal support from 3rd-party devs until they've proven it; if they prove it.

 

[JarrodKing]

Is ghost recon 3 more immersive than Ghost Recon 1? By a mile, in every possible way. Is FN3 more immersive than FN1? Without a doubt, no contest.

Exactly. Anyone up for a game of Gunslinger on Atari? Oh, what's that you say, your pulse races more playing Halo? You have more fun on that crappy Xbox graphics extravaganza? You must have been brainwashed by Sony and Microsoft already.

 

[Inane_Dork]

Why do people keep saying that: better gfx= more immersion ?

Probably because, all other things being equal, it's true. The three samples you cherry-picked "prove" your point because the better looking titles are not considered to be as good at being games.

A better example would be GRAW on Xbox and GRAW on Xbox 360. Are you honestly going to tell me that the 360 version isn't more gripping? If it isn't, which I suppose is possible, just realize that a lot of people are not affected like that.

 

[ninzel]

It all comes down to who you ask.Simple as that. There is no universal truth in gaming.
MS and Sony have been way more succesful in winning over the current traditinal gamers. Nintendo is aiming outside that for the real mainstream, very risky but potentially the greatest rewardsince the real mainstream is much larger than the gaming maintream.

 

[Nicked]

Nintendo is aiming outside that for the real mainstream

Not really.
Eyetoy, Singstar, Buzz...these titles aim outside the mainstream. Revolution is still as much a game controller as the PS3/X360s. Its still going to be unwieldy to anyone who doesn't play games.

 

[ninzel]

Not really.
Eyetoy, Singstar, Buzz...these titles aim outside the mainstream. Revolution is still as much a game controller as the PS3/X360s. Its still going to be unwieldy to anyone who doesn't play games.

No , the Revmote sounds very simple to use in it's most basic form. Anyone who can lift and move one arm, will be able to play a full game withouth having to leave their seat.
EDIT: And aiming for the mainstream is not just about the controller.

 

[pc999]

Didnt played GRAW cant say.

But, unless by immersion you mean other thing, if it means being completely "inside" the game then I cant see causal relation between: gfx then more immersion, is invalide because I can be as immersed in a bad gfx game like 2D Puzzles (eg tetris) as the best of the best gfx games.

Specs can buy new kind of games (to a certain point) ergo new kinds of fun but alone specs or gfx cant buy imersion, at least IMO, but I think that none can say that there is a casual relation between those.

I mean a remake of a game (kind of GR3s for both consoles)(or meybe in a direct evolution like GR ---> GR3, but like the mario eg not always) with better specs will probably improve a game but this is a specific case, besides this is only when games brings new features that specs help.

Of curse this may be subjective.

BTW Nicked we have no idea of what kind of specs Rev will have (besides a DX9 feature set like).

 

[ninzel]

The difference between setting up a REV with sensors, and setting up a PS2 with a peripheral amounts to splitting hairs. For techies it will be nothing, for non techies it will likely be equally intimadating. At least with the REVmote it will be a one time setup/calibration and your off, and knowing Nintendo they will make it exceedingly easy. Those peripherals with each require another setup. Give it up. But realy in the end thedifference will be negligeble.

You're also comparing traditional controllers which require two hands, to manipulate many buttons and sticks and triggers, to a wand with maybe two buttons to play with at once.Again give us a break.

Comparing the REV wand to the other peripherals makes more sense but still does not give some clear victory as you seemed to imply. Those peripherals can require a greater deal of physical interaction and exsertion, the REV wand by comparison requires you to sit on your ass, move your wrist a little and tap a few buttons. You could be fat, out of shpae arthritic or disabled and interact properly with the games. Another huge difference betwen the REV wand and those items you mentioned is the REV wand will be standard on every REV, those other things are peripherals. Therefore the occurence rate of wand only games are likey to be much greater than peripheral games on the PS2 or PS3. Resulting in as I said a more mainstream acceptance and appeal.

 

[basanti]

I personally believe this generation will be a fight between innovation + realism but if you mix both together, that will be considered a true next gen game. And because only Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 can show "realism", they might not have innovation and because Rev doesnt provide realism, it can provide innovation. Both have a tradeoff. If Revolution was as powerful as 360 and Playstation 3 and yet still had the controller? it would have won the console war already

 

[mckmas8808]

I personally believe this generation will be a fight between innovation + realism but if you mix both together, that will be considered a true next gen game. And because only Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 can show "realism", they might not have innovation and because Rev doesnt provide realism, it can provide innovation. Both have a tradeoff. If Revolution was as powerful as 360 and Playstation 3 and yet still had the controller? it would have won the console war already

But innovation in a sense isn't really needed. Great games like Kamanati Damancy (I know it's spelled wrong) and Guitar Hero will always be made even without a wand.

 

[scooby_dooby]

No , the Revmote sounds very simple to use in it's most basic form. Anyone who can lift and move one arm, will be able to play a full game withouth having to leave their seat.
EDIT: And aiming for the mainstream is not just about the controller.

Only for extremely simple games.

For more complex games I'd imagine the learning curve could be pretty steep. Try and imagine using that wand, with the attched joystick, and do all many functions that a game like Splinter Cell or NHL2k6 requires, it's not gonna be easy.

 

[Nicked]

The difference between setting up a REV with sensors, and setting up a PS2 with a peripheral amounts to splitting hairs.

Compared to Eyetoy, maybe, compared to SS+B!, no. Also you're dismissing having to change add-ons+the cover (for GC control).

Give it up.

So we can have a one-sided conversation where you make questionable points about how awesome and accessible the Revolution is whilst ignoring whats being said? It seems that way already.

Your also comparing traditional controllers which require two hands, to manipulate many buttons and sticks and triggers, to a wand with maybe two buttons to play with at once.Again give us a break.

So you're assuming that all games will be simplistic turds and that addons wont be utilised? Because the general impression is that nunchuck+revmote will be the standard configuration, and thats quite a bit more complicated than a simple controller.

Comparing the REV wand to the other peripherals makes more sense but still does not give some clear victory as you seemed to imply.

I'm not implying any victory (or defeat) for anything, if anything only you are.

Those peripherals can require a greater deal of physical interaction and exsertion, the REV wand by comparison requires you to sit on your ass, move your wrist a little and tap a few buttons.You could be fat, out of shpae arthritic or disabled and interact properly with the games.

Only Eyetoy requires any fitness (and even then it can be as simple as waving your arms around for some games...), and you've basically just described a normal controller with added ergonomic disadvantage.

Another huge difference betwen the REV wand and those items you mentioned is the REV wand will be standard on every REV, those other things are peripherals.

Right, meaning that every buyer will be making a choice to play something that could possibly be unsightly in company that is not an accepted gimmick like the PS2 peripherals are. Many people are very self-concious when doing any sort of activity - even alone - and one of the primary reasons people don't play games already is an associated image problem.
Will be a real obstacle for Nintendo to overcome, no?

Resulting in as I said a more mainstream acceptance and appeal.

I don't see how you reach that concluson. Having it standard makes it mainstream? It makes it appealing somehow?

Also you forgot to mention that some games may require purchase of additional attachments.

 

[pipo]

Agreed. If it's so easy what's stopping someone from liking the simple games on Xbox Arcade?

FYI, XLA is doing pretty good. So there must be some people who like it...

 

[pipo]

SWISH!
Better AI+Bigger areas+ smaller details + more interaction etc. = better gaming experience, a great reason to buy a new console.

With Revolution you arent getting that.

You can't say what the experience will be like. Have you tried the thing? What do you know about the setup?

Likewise, you can't say a thing about the AI or details on the Rev either. For all we know there might be a magic physics processor in it.

The only thing we know is it's not going to do HD.

Relax guys.