RV560/570 Gemini roadmap

[CJ]

Thanks, CJ. And to your source(s).


You lost me there. Did you mean 7900GT OC vs. X1950P?

No. I meant what I wrote... GF7600GT OC. X1900XT256 is going up against the 7900GT.

To put things in perspective, according to TR's 3DM06 #s in their 7950GX2 review (w/ an X2 4800+):

7675 7950GX2
5950 7900GTX
5865 X1900XT
4588 X1800XT
4514 7900GT

And 3DM05 / 06 #s courtesy of the three latest XbitLabs reviews (FX-60; it's possible the X1900XT is a repeated typo and actually 5902, given TR's #):

10877 / 6040 7900GTX
10709 / 5092 X1900XT
9509 / 4560 X1900GT
9373 / 4625 X1800XT
8013 / 4538 7900GT
7572 / 3762 X1800XL
6906 / 3275 X1800GTO
6060 / 3319 7600GT

What I didn't mention was that the slide also contained comparison numbers for all the nVidia cards that the ATi cards are competing against. And it's definitely X1950Pro vs GF7600GT OC, because the nVidia card is listed as scoring 6042 in 3DM05 and 3745 in 3DM06. So it's definitely X1950Pro vs GF7600GTOC.

 

[Arty]

anyone kind enough to post translation? ie what number (x1950xtxsuper), wwhat chip is (r582+?) and what was its previous name (like x1650ProLELE was x1600XTX)
10x

X1950 XTX 512MB - $449 (R580+)
X1900 XTX 512MB - $349 (R580)
X1900 XT 512MB - $299 (R580)
X1900 XT 256MB - $249 (R580)
X1950 Pro 256MB - $199 (RV570)

X1650 XT 256MB - $149 (RV560)
X1650 Pro 512MB - $129 (RV530)
X1650 Pro 256MB - $99 (RV530)

My guesses based on what CJ said. ATI could also discontinue the 512MB sku of the X1900 XT as it looks pointless in the stack.

CJ, did they cancel the XL version of the RV570? Or is it coming later (Dec?): http://i6.tinypic.com/15316vd.jpg

+edited to include gpu codenames.

 

[chavvdarrr]

anyone kind enough to post translation? ie what number (x1950xtxsuper), wwhat chip is (r582+?) and what was its previous name (like x1650ProLELE was x1600XTX)
10x

 

[CJ]

X1950 XTX 512MB - $449 (R580+)
X1900 XTX 512MB - $349 (R580)
X1900 XT 512MB - $299 (R580)
X1900 XT 256MB - $249 (R580)
X1950 Pro 256MB - $199 (RV570)

X1650 XT 256MB - $149 (RV560)
X1650 Pro 512MB - $129 (RV530)
X1650 Pro 256MB - $99 (RV530)

My guesses based on what CJ said. ATI could also discontinue the 512MB sku of the X1900 XT as it looks pointless in the stack.

CJ, did they cancel the XL version of the RV570? Or is it coming later (Dec?): http://i6.tinypic.com/15316vd.jpg

+edited to include gpu codenames.

ATi's roadmaps change a lot. What would you expect from a RV570XL? Would it be a RV570XT just clocked slower or do you think they've disabled a quad (turning it into a 256-bit version of the RV560)? And most of all... In what price range would you put it if you see the pricelist that you've just posted (which btw is close to the truth)?

BTW, X1650Pro will make use of RV535XT when they've ran out of RV530XT cores. And all RV530Pro and RV535Pro cores will be used in X1300XT ($79-$99).

 

[Pete]

CJ, that's a hyoooge peformance jump at MSRP$200. Very nice. Also, I forgot the Pro was RV570, I thought it was the same as the GT: a cut-down R580. Whoops.

serenity, seems like an equally huge jump going from a $200 RV570 to a $250 R580. I'd be surprised if performance tracked so well with price (33% > performance for just 25% > price?!) I'd expect the current XTX to go the way of the dodo, leaving a $279-299 X1900XT 256 and maybe a $349 X1900XT 512. The X1950XT should stay at $450+.

The jump from RV530 to RV560 also seems implausibly large for the price. Practically twice the card for just 50% more?

But I guess the market will be different when RV570 & 560 are released in October. so that tight and seemingly low pricing may well be accurate. I won't stand in the way of progress!

 

[Arty]

ATi's roadmaps change a lot. What would you expect from a RV570XL? Would it be a RV570XT just clocked slower or do you think they've disabled a quad (turning it into a 256-bit version of the RV560)? And most of all... In what price range would you put it if you see the pricelist that you've just posted (which btw is close to the truth)?

Ah, makes sense. It'll be interesting to see how they will make use of the borked RV570s (one quad less). I would have spread some green to you but stupid forum rules dont allow me to.

serenity, seems like an equally huge jump going from a $200 RV570 to a $250 R580. I'd be surprised if performance tracked so well with price (33% > performance for just 25% > price?!) I'd expect the current XTX to go the way of the dodo, leaving a $279-299 X1900XT 256 and maybe a $349 X1900XT 512. The X1950XT should stay at $450+.

The jump from RV530 to RV560 also seems implausibly large for the price. Practically twice the card for just 50% more?

But I guess the market will be different when RV570 & 560 are released in October. so that tight and seemingly low pricing may well be accurate. I won't stand in the way of progress!

Honestly after a long time it looks like ATI is bringing goodness to the sub $300 and $200 price-points. I wonder how Nvidia will counter these new parts, their G8x range wont be there so they'll have to make use of current ones.

 

[KimB]

Honestly after a long time it looks like ATI is bringing goodness to the sub $300 and $200 price-points. I wonder how Nvidia will counter these new parts, their G8x range wont be there so they'll have to make use of current ones.

The GeForce 7900GT is currently as low as about $250, so they don't have far to go in price to compete well with the Radeon X1950 Pro.

 

[Arty]

The GeForce 7900GT is currently as low as about $250, so they don't have far to go in price to compete well with the Radeon X1950 Pro.

That is a MSRP v SRP comparison. Also ATI is revamping sub $200 categories as well.

 

[KimB]

That is a MSRP v SRP comparison. Also ATI is revamping sub $200 categories as well.

Right. I'm just saying that it wouldn't be all that much of a price drop to remain competitive.

And we all know that street prices can end up above MSRP's just as well as they can end up below them.

 

[trumphsiao]

anyone kind enough to post translation? ie what number (x1950xtxsuper), wwhat chip is (r582+?) and what was its previous name (like x1650ProLELE was x1600XTX)
10x

from what I perceived Die Size of Rv570 is 2xxmm^2(less than 65% of R580)

also RV5XX series have some problem need to be unhinged
1.Less TMU than G7X series from top to bottom
2. PCB Cost

 

[Pete]

Pretty good guess about RV570, serenity.

trumphsiao, was it that cheap since its release, or is that a recent price drop? How expensive is, say, a 7900GT or an X1900XT, for comparison?

 

[trumphsiao]

Pretty good guess about RV570, serenity.

down here in Taiwan you can come with 200USD to purchase a X1900GT

 

[Blazkowicz]

The jump from RV530 to RV560 also seems implausibly large for the price. Practically twice the card for just 50% more?

it's a bit like what was geforce 6600 vs 6600GT (where GPU was much faster clocked, sure not twice, but the bandwith was almost double)
the more low-end you get the more cards stink compared to their price anyway, a 6200 is much worse than a 7300GS, which is much worse than 7300GT or 7600GS.

 

[trumphsiao]

it's a bit like what was geforce 6600 vs 6600GT (where GPU was much faster clocked, sure not twice, but the bandwith was almost double)
the more low-end you get the more cards stink compared to their price anyway, a 6200 is much worse than a 7300GS, which is much worse than 7300GT or 7600GS.

RV5XX series line-up is ATI the most advancable but less margin compared to GF7 series. 7900GT consignment price is less than 250~230USD .when ATI put RV560/570 on the shelves of global market as a whole. the less period of time ATI put stockpile of chips onto the AIB channel.the less margin of loss is remained to be seen.
we all concur that G80/R600 is "water-cool" motif design design form.but as I perceived from the preliminary G80 sample. I dont feel any thing engrossing .

 

[KimB]

Water cooling is still going to be a very niche market with the next generation of GPU's.

 

[no-X]

Some news about RV550:

Friends from graphic market said ATi plans to merge Xilleon graphic processor into Radeon GPU, targeting on HTPC and Digital Home market. The merge enables ATi’s value and mainstream products to be capable for 1080p AVIVO HD Video Decoding, which is essential to the upcoming Blu-Ray and HD-DVD.

Xilleon is designed for digital TVBox as a Universal Video Decoder inside digital TV. It’s a 300MHz 32Bit MIPS processor. ATi plans to merge it into its GPU to enable 40Mbps + CABAC Blu-Ray decoding without occupying GPU’s resources. Further support in Dual-Stream decoding, 1080p HD Video decoding is no longer a problem for mainstream platforms...

http://www.hkepc.com/bbs/news.php?tid=641493

 

[Sunrise]

Some news about RV550

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32377

 

[CJ]

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32377

I was 5 days earlier than that.

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showpost.php?p=798528&postcount=234

 

[no-X]

And thats why I posted these slides here :smile:

 

[Sunrise]

And thats why I posted these slides here :smile:

So it´s all geo´s fault, right ?

Your post doesn´t have anything new, the date just changed to 8/4, that´s why i posted the link. CJ´s round-up, if a little earlier than that, was incomplete and he was also refering to an older news that HKEPC already posted about a month ago.