Sure why not ? I don't see anything stating why it couldn't. With the xenos assisting the waternoose it shoudl be fine. My old athlon x2 3200 with an x1900 radeon was able to handle the jump from hd dvd to bluray titles just fine
*Rumors Spin-off* 360 & Blu Ray
- Thread starter patsu
- Start date
Sure why not ? I don't see anything stating why it couldn't. With the xenos assisting the waternoose it shoudl be fine. My old athlon x2 3200 with an x1900 radeon was able to handle the jump from hd dvd to bluray titles just fine
silhouette
Regular
The biggest problem might be to decode the lossless compressed and bitpacked data into various video encoding related features (DCT coefficients, motion vectors, etc.). This is the only thing that may tax 360 (that's where the workload increases with increasing bit-rate). 1080p24 video decoding has already been implemented in HD-DVD decoder, so 360 will be fine in that area.
At worst case, they may include a small chip that can do this lossless decoding in the drive itself before sending the features to 360 through usb. Once it is done, 360 can play the video w/o any problem.
Lucid_Dreamer
Veteran
According to the link, it was basically being taxed already.
That's why I asked if it could handle 33% more bitrate. If I'm way off base, please let me know why that shouldn't lead me to believe it's taxing the system.
Maybe it might be easier for me if you told me how much more you think it can handle (bitrate wise) and why?
Lucid do you think that gears of war is the game that has pushed the system the hardest ? Do you think that gears of war 2 didn't push it further or halo 3 or any other game. I think its ridiculous to claim that the 360 was maxed out with gears and the codec when we've all seen devs push consoles further each year.
Also if you read your quote it only speaks of the waternoose and doesn't mention the xenos . Which means that the codec didn't even touch the gpu.
Also if you read your quote it only speaks of the waternoose and doesn't mention the xenos . Which means that the codec didn't even touch the gpu.
Patsu i really wish you'd read my posts a bit more instead of jump to attack mode.
All I said was it was possible for them to price it at $200 less than the ps3. I never said they would only that it was a possiblity. You really need to lay off on the sony protection scheme you got going on.
well that thing costs $55 bucks according to the article. Thats a bit steep for something even a cheapo $20 dvd player supports . It would have been nice if the ir set up was included. I use the controller also but if my father or mother wants to use it forget it . Its way ot much for them.
Its just a small thing that was just left out for some crazy reason
It's not saying anything or even convincing if the consoles are currently already $200 off (without Blu-ray on 360). In my post, I was just asking "$200 ?". You're the one who went in a big loop trying to defend an arbitrary number but land back on square one. Please don't try to blame me for what you posted.silhouette
Regular
There is a paper that shows the percentage of processing of each block in h.264 decoding. It seems, this part is only 9% of the entire work load, which is not huge but can still be significant depending on how much cycles are still available in the hd-dvd decoder. However, it seems with some optimizations, it is certainly possible that 360 can play any Blu-ray disks.
Btw, the paper I mentioned is at http://www.geocities.com/ykchen913/publications/H264SpecialIssueR2.pdf
Thanks for the paper ! I have been trying to look for something like this.
I took a quick look at the article. It doesn't say anything about CABAC. It seems that the paper is only for the baseline profile (e.g., for mobile devices). Blu-ray and HD DVD use main and advanced profiles instead.
Also what are the requirements for Blu-ray ? What does the Picture-in-picture feature mean in performance term ? I know in its early stage, the BDA guys faked PIP by using 2 parallel video streams. What does the spec say today ?
In addition, what does the Blu-ray conformance tests validate w.r.t. to the Java run-time (if such a test exist) ? Is there a minimal performance level ? I certainly hope so for a consistent user experience.
I took a quick look at the article. It doesn't say anything about CABAC. It seems that the paper is only for the baseline profile (e.g., for mobile devices). Blu-ray and HD DVD use main and advanced profiles instead.
Also what are the requirements for Blu-ray ? What does the Picture-in-picture feature mean in performance term ? I know in its early stage, the BDA guys faked PIP by using 2 parallel video streams. What does the spec say today ?
In addition, what does the Blu-ray conformance tests validate w.r.t. to the Java run-time (if such a test exist) ? Is there a minimal performance level ? I certainly hope so for a consistent user experience.
Lucid_Dreamer
Veteran
Thanks for the paper, Silhouette!
Looks like a year later, it's coming
Most damning to me aren't Balmers words, as he could have misspoke, but MS non-denial. I've read enough MS PR to know when they're essentially admitting it, and they are.
Normally they would say no comment, or issue a flat denial, as they did with the buying EA rumor.
Kind of almost anti-climactic at this point, but it also probably doesnt hurt anything. Now for price, anything above $99 would render it irrelevant in my book.
Most damning to me aren't Balmers words, as he could have misspoke, but MS non-denial. I've read enough MS PR to know when they're essentially admitting it, and they are.
Normally they would say no comment, or issue a flat denial, as they did with the buying EA rumor.
Kind of almost anti-climactic at this point, but it also probably doesnt hurt anything. Now for price, anything above $99 would render it irrelevant in my book.
Or we can just keeping getting HD media off of Netflix and the Marketplace without paying for a $100 drive and overpriced BDR media ... hmmm hard choice!
The number of times I rewatch a flick ($$$) minus the number of "one watch ponies (-$$$$$$$$$) really doesn't justify the investment for me. The majority of my Friends List is on Netflix and they all love it. Ho hum at best.
Hulu streaming would be a MUCH bigger deal.
The number of times I rewatch a flick ($$$) minus the number of "one watch ponies (-$$$$$$$$$) really doesn't justify the investment for me. The majority of my Friends List is on Netflix and they all love it. Ho hum at best.
Hulu streaming would be a MUCH bigger deal.
Or you can just watch Netflix Blu-ray rental without any online fees attached, and without any compromised quality and features.
As you said, most of your friends are already on Netflix. They will have one more choice soon. If something is growing on a worldwide scale, there's probably a good reason behind it.
A/ the stream HD movies are lower quality than blu-ray
B/ typically theyre gonna be more expensive than renting disks at your local store, I heard 1080p was ~$5 a film (which doesnt seem right)
though there is the advantage that you dont have to leave your home (esp important if youre agophobic)
I think Joshua is implying that the additional/assumed $100 for the add-on may not be worthwhile. This will be true for some.
For people who appreciate the differences, they are already buying a standalone player or a PS3 to watch Blu-ray. So the add-on will just be another cheaper alternative.
For people who appreciate the differences, they are already buying a standalone player or a PS3 to watch Blu-ray. So the add-on will just be another cheaper alternative.
I understand the desire among some for higher quality at any cost. Got that. But how important is that to the 360 market? There is already a console with a great BDR player and BDR players are cheap now. Does the 360 really need an addon?
On any given night I have more friends on Netflix than on games. Scary. Until I tried it for free and understand why. We don't have a TV and loath programming. But Netflix has a huge library of family and educational videos.
When Batman came out I watched it in HD via the Marketplace. $5. For a non-movie buff that sure bears a BDR + $30 movie!!
Ok, so what of the guy who wants the highest quality + owning a disk? I don't see how a BDR accessory really appeals. A dedicated player seems like a far better option.
For a lot of people instant access to HD material for $5 is a great option (btw, that is about what local places want for a rental
). It actually saves me $. True, as Zed points out, it isn't "The Very Best" (TM). But on my 28" display the Marketplace stuff looks really good (TM). Instant access whenever I want as the compromise of some quality.
Kind of a personal thing--I don't mind what I am missing for what I am getting. Different strokes and all.
But I don't see how a BDR player is really a big deal at this point. $200 players abound and there is a $300 console with BDR included. For the 360 owner who wants BDR, maybe a good deal.
But a lot of 360 owners are enjoying Netflix and the Marketplace and the DVD drive. Is BDR a "value" at $100 + media? Maybe for some, but it seems a loooot of people are streaming At $9/mo. Most of which isn't HD (although most new shows are).
I just think it is a hard sell at this point. For those owners who really care about HD quality why don't they have a PS3 or dedicated player? Maybe something new console owners will be interested in, but I really think at this point it is a bulletpoint, probably with a BDR only model coming down the pipes "Elite" will you.
Maybe not as extreme, but would PS3 fans be excited to pay for a Wireless-N radio? PS3 comes with a b/g that works fine, so is the addition really worth $100 to most consumers? Probably not. Not saying no one could benefit, only that the other options (ethernet, b/g) already make people pretty content.
On any given night I have more friends on Netflix than on games. Scary. Until I tried it for free and understand why. We don't have a TV and loath programming. But Netflix has a huge library of family and educational videos.
When Batman came out I watched it in HD via the Marketplace. $5. For a non-movie buff that sure bears a BDR + $30 movie!!
Ok, so what of the guy who wants the highest quality + owning a disk? I don't see how a BDR accessory really appeals. A dedicated player seems like a far better option.
For a lot of people instant access to HD material for $5 is a great option (btw, that is about what local places want for a rental
). It actually saves me $. True, as Zed points out, it isn't "The Very Best" (TM). But on my 28" display the Marketplace stuff looks really good (TM). Instant access whenever I want as the compromise of some quality.Kind of a personal thing--I don't mind what I am missing for what I am getting. Different strokes and all.
But I don't see how a BDR player is really a big deal at this point. $200 players abound and there is a $300 console with BDR included. For the 360 owner who wants BDR, maybe a good deal.
But a lot of 360 owners are enjoying Netflix and the Marketplace and the DVD drive. Is BDR a "value" at $100 + media? Maybe for some, but it seems a loooot of people are streaming At $9/mo. Most of which isn't HD (although most new shows are).
I just think it is a hard sell at this point. For those owners who really care about HD quality why don't they have a PS3 or dedicated player? Maybe something new console owners will be interested in, but I really think at this point it is a bulletpoint, probably with a BDR only model coming down the pipes "Elite" will you.
Maybe not as extreme, but would PS3 fans be excited to pay for a Wireless-N radio? PS3 comes with a b/g that works fine, so is the addition really worth $100 to most consumers? Probably not. Not saying no one could benefit, only that the other options (ethernet, b/g) already make people pretty content.
That's all there is to it.
The add-on is not there to win any war for MS, or make all Xbox owners happy.
The Blu-ray content is not expensive if you know when and where to buy. You don't even need to buy if you're already on Netflix. I buy what I love, I rent from Netflix most of the time too.
RancidLunchmeat
Veteran
Bah. I'd say for this to matter at all, it would have to hurry to market and be well under $99. More like $50, which makes it a loss-leader for MS.
And as a loss leader, that's the only way it makes sense. To prevent people from buying the now less expensive PS3 as a second console for the BR option and to keep them out of the PS3 camp altogether.
I'm considering a PS3 at some point, mainly because if I'm going to buy a bluray player it might as well be a PS3 so I can play the few games that aren't on the 360 that are available. A cheap add on for one of my 360s is a more appealing option, but it has to be a much cheaper option to give up the additional features that you might use in the future.
And as a loss leader, that's the only way it makes sense. To prevent people from buying the now less expensive PS3 as a second console for the BR option and to keep them out of the PS3 camp altogether.
I'm considering a PS3 at some point, mainly because if I'm going to buy a bluray player it might as well be a PS3 so I can play the few games that aren't on the 360 that are available. A cheap add on for one of my 360s is a more appealing option, but it has to be a much cheaper option to give up the additional features that you might use in the future.
Exactly. That's competition. The add-on guy will have to price it right to make it worthwhile vis-a-vis market expectation, but it's coming if we can trust Steve Ballmer's words. Next year, the chipsets should be good and cheap enough to compete with PS3 Slim config (With mandatory copy).
This is what I'm wondering about. How will this be priced, who's the target? I've heard that you can get full (if not top-quality) players for that much, is this true? For another, what about users with old 360s, without HDMI ports? I can't imagine there'll be some workaround to the HDCP stuff.
Also, older PS3s already get a fair amount of flack over the version they support -- the 360 supports an even older version. If you're spending extra money on Blu-ray because you think the difference in quality is important over what you can get via the marketplace, will you be happy that you're not getting all the lights on your receiver to light up?
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