PSP: Playable on show floor, impressions inside.

[Phil]

Oh ok if we're going to be honest Guden I think your being a complete and utter idiot here. It doesn't take a Nintendo fan-boy to see which design is cleaner and neater between a peripheral that clicks onto the top of a system and a touch keyboard that can apear on the screen anytime you need it.

I think the problem is, you guys are trying to extend something that is puerely subjective into something like fact, which it clearly is not. I personally dislike touchscreens for the reasons Guden mentioned (wear and tear) - and it has nothing to do with the fact that PSP excludes this possibility, it actually comes from personal experience in which I complained about this in PPCs I have used. I am very prone to scratches on screens, so perhaps that is why that I dislike using styluses. Anyway, having said that, I personally think that the external keyboard is very stylish indeed - simple, yet stylish. And no, being stylish, hightech looking never required any hightech or complexity. It's not much different than iPod looking stylish actually. So, while to me it does look stylish, I also agree with PC-Engine that an external keyboard is anything but portable and convinient. Perhaps if it is very thin and can be stacked away easily in a PSP bag, it might find some user. Other than that, it's pretty useless to me.

I suggest everyone tries it, it's not hard!

you guys crack me up.

 

[London Geezer]

You two are nuts.

Huh huh... At least we don't go through the backdoor, we don't do subliminal messages.....

 

[Guden Oden]

Oh ok if we're going to be honest Guden I think your being a complete and utter idiot here.

I guess you got your pronomes mixed up here. "Your" does not fit with the general syntax of your sentence. And you're actually English, you say?

It doesn't take a Nintendo fan-boy to see which design is cleaner and neater between a peripheral that clicks onto the top of a system and a touch keyboard that can apear on the screen anytime you need it.

GOOD we're in agreement then, because the click-on solution (which you'd only click on when it was needed of course) is clearly the cleaner and neater solution. Just look at the state of that poor DS once you get some greasy prints on it, and since the screen is recessed into the casing it will also be hard to clean along the edges and especially in the corners. Also what happens when - not IF - you scratch it? How much will it cost to get that screen replaced, less than an entirely new DS?

If only PSP had a rewriteable UMD, that'd be awesome. It could have been a perfect PDA replacement with a vast storage device built right into it. Oh well, guess that'll be for PSP2 with a blueray UMD instead, maybe in another 5 years or so the time will be right for that.

 

[London Geezer]

Good lord... from name-calling to spelling jokies... This keeps getting better and better...

 

[Guden Oden]

Surely better than starting to sling mud in return, don't you agree?

 

[London Geezer]

Surely better than starting to sling mud in return, don't you agree?

Yeah, much better, keep it up! U'll surely be pushing this thread in jvd's LOCKED list

 

[Guden Oden]

Alright, that's enough outta you after your penis analogies on the previous page!

 

[rabidrabbit]

This is a PSP thread... I don't think there's been any talk of penises. You sure you don't have some other web site running on the background?

 

[London Geezer]

Alright, that's enough outta you after your penis analogies on the previous page!

Huh? Where did that come from? What analogies? I think u're reading too much in between lines. Or maybe there's something you need to tell us...?

 

[Teasy]

Guden Oden

Oh wow, nitpicking spelling/grammar, that is truly pathetic. Even more so considering that you're making grammar mistakes in the very paragraph in which you get on your grammar high horse

GOOD we're in agreement then, because the click-on solution (which you'd only click on when it was needed of course) is clearly the cleaner and neater solution.

Nope, I prefer the idea of a convienient built in virtual keyboard using the touch screen when compared to a peice of plastic attatched to the top of a system (anything but neat and clean IMO).

Just look at the state of that poor DS once you get some greasy prints on it, and since the screen is recessed into the casing it will also be hard to clean along the edges and especially in the corners.

Don't know about you, but I wash my hands Also even if I didn't I certainly don't press my fingers right into the corners and edges of the screen. Not to mention there are other options for the terminally filthy handed (stylus, and even cotton buds for people scared of scratching).

P.S. with no cover the PSP screens seems to be at a much higher risk of scratching then DS's screen/s (I had a original GBA and boy did it scratch easy).

 

[Teasy]

Phil

I definitely prefer the idea of the touch screen keyboard. But even though you disagree yours is a fair well rounded opinion and I respect that.

 

[Guden Oden]

Oh wow, nitpicking spelling/grammar, that is truly pathetic.

...And so is namecalling, I might add. So we're both pathetic, but at least I wasn't abusive.

Even more so considering that you're making grammar mistakes in the very paragraph in which you get on your grammar high horse

So English is a 2nd language to me, what's YOUR excuse???

Yeah a flimsy add on

What do you know about flimsy? I've never known Sony to make flimsy expensive stuff, and PSP isn't going to be a bargain-bin kind of item, that's for sure.

that protrudes out at the top of the system is just SO neat isn't it? Give me a break....

So what's the difference between a touchscreen that protrudes out of the top of the system and a 2nd screen that protrudes out of the first screen? Zero, for all intents and purposes, you're just looking for stuff to nitpick about.

Don't know about you, but I wash my hands

Dude, unless you wash 'em with denaturated alcohol like every half-hour or so, you're still going to have grease on your fingers, as it's produced naturally by the skin. You're going to get prints on that screen, and YES, undoubtedly we'll end up getting muck in the corners of our DS screens, it's unavoidable (entropy and all that, you know).

And the stylus is going to wear the screen even more, since it's a hard object.

 

[Lazy8s]

london-boy:

I'm not the one saying DC could do all sorts of effects without having seen them in a game, like, EVER.

I'd imagine someone like Crazyace, if you'd prefer, with an observant eye and extensive experience of Dreamcast games could also point out dot product bump mapping being used in-game. And again, that's just saying these features were practical enough to be turned on - not that such a game implemented any of its graphics in flattering ways (good programming is never a given).

 

[Phil]

Perhaps someone more knowledgable than I am can comment on this:

if a PS2 game were to be programmed with Dreamcast like restrictions (basically, limit geometry to what a typical average DC game achieved), would multi-pass achieved bump mapping be feasable or not? Going on topics on PS2 and bump mapping (one thread dates back to vers doing a demo that included bump mapping), it should be possible and still be quite ahead of what Dreamcast was supposedly possible. Of course with todays PS2 games being programmed with much higher polygon counts in mind, it isn't suprising that an expensive feature such as bump mapping would even be considered. Since this was about DC vs PS2, we should actually compare the two under same conditions.

 

[Lazy8s]

You do know that there is overlap between the typical range of geometry rates of games on the two systems, right? PS2 is the more capable one, but they're not in different leagues.

There's no questioning the practicalness of dot product bump mapping on Dreamcast once you realize it was just an extra texture layer pass for the machine.

 

[Teasy]

Guden Oden

I didn't call you anything, I just said that you were behaving like an idiot. I mean I gave an opinion and you called me a fan-boy for it. What, do you think that isn't an insulting word or something?

What's my excuse for a very small and insignificant spelling error? I don't really need one. This is a discussion forum not a spelling contest. I'd rather concentrate on expressing my opinion then on 100% exact spelling and grammar.

What do you know about flimsy? I've never known Sony to make flimsy expensive stuff, and PSP isn't going to be a bargain-bin kind of item, that's for sure.

Well I know that a thin piece of plastic perched on top of a system certainly looks flimsy to me. Drop the machine while its attached and I'd be suprised if it didn't break (either the keyboard itself or the attachments or both). Not only that but it looks like it'd be very awkward to use when standing up. As for never knowing Sony to make flimsy expensive stuff. Why have so many people had to buy replacement PS2's? Why did so many people have to do the same with PS1?

So what's the difference between a touchscreen that protrudes out of the top of the system and a 2nd screen that protrudes out of the first screen?

DS's second screen doesn't protrude out of the first at all though. Both screens are designed into the system and remember the touch screen is not primarily there for typing either.

Dude, unless you wash 'em with denaturated alcohol like every half-hour or so, you're still going to have grease on your fingers, as it's produced naturally by the skin. You're going to get prints on that screen, and YES, undoubtedly we'll end up getting muck in the corners of our DS screens, it's unavoidable (entropy and all that, you know).

Slight marks that can be whipped away easily with a cloth. Your not going to get dirt from your fingers into the sides/corners of the screen unless you either have filthy hands, or you use the thing for years without cleaning it. Finally, if someone really can't bare to wipe a screen every so often and doesn't want to risk wearing down the screen with a stylus then here's an idea. Use a cotton bud.

 

[archie4oz]

PS2 is the more capable one, but they're not in different leagues.

If you want any CPU left over to do anything they are... In fact if you wanna talk about "geometry rates" (ergo, transform throughput) then yes different leagues would be very appropriate...

 

[Fafalada]

There's no questioning the practicalness of dot product bump mapping on Dreamcast once you realize it was just an extra texture layer pass for the machine.

Except that it wasn't just that. The vertex setup for DOT3 BM is not exactly a cheap operation even for hardware with much more geometry power then what DC has. And DC's particular BM method involves even more geometry overhead then DOT3 from what I recall Simon saying.

You should listen to your own wisdom - singling out features is pretty meaningless without considering the way the affect the overall working of the system.

 

[Lazy8s]

Phil:

Since this was about DC vs PS2, we should actually compare the two under same conditions.

If you truly want them under the same conditions, the PS2 is going to have to pick up its slack in IQ as well.

archie4oz:

If you want any CPU left over to do anything they are...

Most PS2 games were tested to be between 2 and 5 mpps. The CPU resources weren't lacking for AI and game logic even in a comparably complex DC game like Test Drive Le Mans.

Fafalada:

Except that it wasn't just that.

It was a native effect, so the associated set-up costs had been considered when it was chosen for hardware support. Bump mapping is an effect you'd only want to use selectively anyway, and it's not like the DC had zero polygons to spare. For 640x480 console games, there should be acceptable balances that could be achieved from the trade-off of bump mapping.

 

[Phil]

Lazy8s:

If you truly want them under the same conditions, the PS2 is going to have to pick up its slack in IQ as well.

We've been through this many times, but there are games that have as superb IQ as one can get on interlaced displays (i.e. Tekken Tag Tournament). The point is, a game developed on PS2 around DC specs could use left resources to do bump mapping. My point is, most games today rather emphasize on geometry rather than a complicated bump mapping approach. If we are to compare the two platforms, we should at least compare them under same conditions. Given Tekken Tag, good IQ is very well possible and there is no reason to believe that game doesn't hold any weight in the idea I am proposing.